Baja-No-Pinch-Tire-Tool

[Vacman 0]

I would not consider sending my money to this company, even if it is the same spec.

I have a Chinese built tire/mousse palletized changing stand.

I find this ironic.

[paulmbowers 236]

FYI- My 2 cents.... means nothing ...to y'all....but I feel the need to comment.... I believe* these guys no-pinche guys stole the entire idea for this tool from the original manufacturer (Estonia).

The OEM -Kauritmoto should have patented it and I'm sure they didn't , but for this reason I would not consider sending my money to this company, even if it is the same spec., 1/2 the cost of the original and made in USA.

Well...

As is well known, I steer clear of political debate here. This is an environment where it's proven difficult to have a rational, well-informed and courteous discussion from which we all learn from those with differing points of view. That's a shame, but I'm working on my acceptance

However.

I'm glad to see this questioned at least recognized and asked. I had the identical thoughts (those are thoughts, not conclusions) as Robert- this does have that smell of the stolen idea. Ironically, the paradigm is reversed- it appears the foriegn idea was copied and perhaps improved by domestic enterprise.

I'm a BIG fan of intellectualy property rights- I believe they are a cornerstone of capitalisim, of which I'm a great fan. As the global economy (it is, like it or not- that horse is outta the barn) gains momentum, I forsee this becoming a major issue- worldwide intellectual property rights- is that even possible?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, domestic forces (including THE major player, Google) are actively lobbying for changes to the patent system- a system we, as a country, has neglected so badly our companies have little more than their genitalia in their hands wehn trying to exercise their IP rights.

So- I'm not taking sides here other than to support and encourge the awareness of the question Robert has courageously submitted and to encourage thoughful dialog about the issue.

It deserves one's attention.

[PbdBlue 46]

The point here is the vendor is being slandered with no basis in fact and on the ASSUMPTION that they ripped off the design. Do we know if Kauritmoto is actually the developer of this product or perhaps just another licensee? Again not enough factual knowledge to make an informed decision.

[paulmbowers 236]

Truth is we don't know if they're being slandered or not- because we don't know the facts. If they did rip off the design, then they're not being slandered. correct?

I take your point- Robert may have overstepped the facts when raising the legitimate question.

[ADV Bum 205]

I dont think it is fair to slander the US company. I do not see anywhere on the Estonia company that they even have a patent on the product. If one had a patent they would post it on everything.

Now I know something of the Patent laws as I have been through the process. Lots of scenarios could be happening. 1 Never patented (or could not). 2 Patented in Estonia and could not afford to get the international patent for US and other countries(super expensive). 3 They hold all the patents and are getting ripped off. 4. They hold a Design patent and the product has been changed enough not to violate their patents. Design patent does not protect like a Utility patent which protects the actual function.

Without knowing anything of the situation and what actual laws are you cannot make a decision.

[paulmbowers 236]

Without knowing anything of the situation and what actual laws are you cannot make a decision.

Agreed.

But you can still ask the question, right?

[PbdBlue 46]

Open the question is fine but encouraging action without knowledge is another matter.

[robertaccio 406]

no slander that is not in my character, the internet is so tough to present thoughts (for educational discussion), it always turns into an argument. For the post it was because a few years back the Est product was put out there and I thought it was a cool concept. Some US folks actually bought some in a group, but they were still cost prohitive to bring over to here, then all of a sudden I saw this new brand with the same item, but not just a tire spoon or some other tool but virtually the same item, yes assumption was made.

Please read my opening comments(kind of disclaimer).

"FYI- My 2 cents.... means nothing ...to y'all....but I feel the need to comment.... I believe*....."

PS If this just turns more into an argument... I will be done with it, Paul you can delete my entire post, I really dont care. This was just an FYI post, with a clear disclaimer opener. Do your own own research and make your own decisions to purchase as you all wish, I really dont care what you all buy.

[ADV Bum 205]

Open the question is fine but encouraging action without knowledge is another matter.

I have to agree. I did not see a question asked.

[paulmbowers 236]

Open the question is fine but encouraging action without knowledge is another matter.

I don't see anything but Roberts expression of his personal actions. I don't see anywhere a call to boycott or a "you should all do the same". I think that while Robert MIGHT have made assumptions in excess of fact, I believe his position is legitimate for him- he shared his point of view.

And yes, that question was implied.

[paulmbowers 236]

PS If this just turns more into an argument... I will be done with it, Paul you can delete my entire post, I really dont care. This was just an FYI post, with a clear disclaimer opener. Do your own own research and make your own decisions to purchase as you all wish, I really dont care what you all buy.

Nah- you're good. But I'm not a modulator anyway....

[ADV Bum 205]

Open the question is fine but encouraging action without knowledge is another matter.

I don't see anything but Roberts expression of his personal actions. I don't see anywhere a call to boycott or a "you should all do the same". I think that while Robert MIGHT have made assumptions in excess of fact, I believe his position is legitimate for him- he shared his point of view.

And yes, that question was implied.

If the question was implied, so was the call to boycott.

[paulmbowers 236]

Jeeze.

You win.

[robertaccio 406]

this needs to die now, but since when does I - mean everyone---- I said clearly, I would not, based on my assumptions.....which may or may not be correct..... this is all an info post of my= how I have a take on the subject.

This is not a call for anything. This did not tell anyone what or what not they should buy or use or endorse.

"but for this reason I (not we-you- the guy next door, ME only) would not consider sending my money to this company, even if it is the same spec., 1/2 the cost of the original and made in USA."

I'm done, read into it how yall want- it was strictly an info post, about info and about my opinion. Now you all know that some obscure Estonian company also makes exact replicas of the US companys tool- or vice versa, connected, not connected, copied, licensed, patented not patented who knows at this point, my assumption is based on timeline/saw it first here (Est) years back, now all of a sudden its here(US). They both have been asked by the way......

the only other addition to this for me is if either or both companies answer me.

I know one thing eveyone that uses this tool likes it and it is packable easily and it's about 95% chance I will never buy one from either company (I use Mousses unless they are on back order)

Thanks all.

[Wintyfresh 46]

Here's Kauritmoto's reply on the situation:

Baja No Pinch stole our design and made direct 1-1 copy of our tire mounting tool. Not so nice thing to do, but people are like that.

We do not have US patent on that design, it was just too expensive thing to do for us. We can do best to protect our product name and inform the customers about the scam and copied product. On the other side we feel no need in advertising the copy.

We have discussed it and I have a meeting set up with someone who could help me acting on the case.

Best regards,

Ardo Kaurit
tiremountingtool.com

[tntmo 887]

Shell Rotella T 15W40......oh, wrong thread.

[robertaccio 406]

yeeeaaap another oil thread!!!! good one Tntmo!!

Kaurit needs to call Chilly's sugar mama racing partner on this.......

http://ngordoncompany.com/about-us

anyway--there it is. but thats just hearsay (he said she said) evidence anyway.......those daggone Estonians,,you never about those guys.

[ADV Bum 205]

More than likely it will soon be made by a chinese manufacturer for a large company like Motion pro and sold cheap.

[350thumper 336]

i just use the back of my Crescent wrench....

[PbdBlue 46]

Hate to drag this thread up again and no I don't want to get into a discussion of ethics. At any rate I finally got around giving the BNP tool a try today. Put a new Scorpion on the front of the 350. Granted it was a front tire but it went on super easy using the tool. WOW if it does anywhere near as well on a rear tire like a Maxxis Desert IT then I'm totally sold.

[Vintage Veloce 21]

I have one of these tools and am unhappy with it. I know lots of guys love it, but my advice is to be careful with the sharp and of the tool, especially when putting the bottom bead on. My review is here:

http://www.vintageveloce.com/2014/12/baja-no-pinch-tire-tool-review.html

[TrophyHunter 15]

Thx for that - I'll be careful and see how it goes when the time comes.

[Afry 1]

Hmmmm, using my original tool bought for more from Estonia (?) This is not a problem. I have used it at least 10 times including the super stiff Motoz Tractionator with no issues. It does look slightly different in the photo.

[blakeNY9 0]

Nothing but success and ease of use with mine. Sorry to hear of your difficulties. Everyone's experience is unique. I am currently fighting a Rekluse LHRB system that am almost ready to throw in the towel on.

[jimi 0]

What's up with the LHRB? Bleeding? The first one I did wasn't too bad, but on that bike I skipped using the foot brake at all, and just ran the line all the way to the rear caliper. Still a pain to get bled, but I managed. The thought of having to fight with the foot brake as well gives em pause. I have one on order though, so I'll be fighting one next weekend most likely.