What is the Best High Performance Enduro Bike?

[Goofy Footer 539]

Btw I love the discussion! Sneeker, your comment about "bias" is exactly what I want to hear. Everybody has bias and your opinion is what makes for great discussion.

Maybe I should just shut up about the "perfect" bike, get in phenomenal riding shape, learn how to ride better, save my money for beer and fish tacos like every other 20 something year old in Pacific Beach and keep riding the piss out of my DRZ (all while occassionally bitching about it to you guys)... haha

[CalNub 0]

Maybe I should just shut up about the "perfect" bike, get in phenomenal riding shape, learn how to ride better, save my money for beer and fish tacos like every other 20 something year old in Pacific Beach and keep riding the piss out of my DRZ (all while occassionally bitching about it to you guys)... haha

This sounds like an excellent plan, and you're in luck 'cos i'm free tonight! I'll even buy first round :o/>

[Goofy Footer 539]

I resent the poor shape and poor rider comment, (truth hurts)

:)/>/>

Yeah but you and bikeslut are old as dirt so you guys have an excuse - I don't! Jk Jk

btw Champ, I agree with you 100% about getting a brighter light for Safe night riding. I actually went down on pavement the other night because I misjudged an obstacle that I couldn't fully see and I overreacted poorly.

I posted this thread to see if people had a Best bike with the Least amount of compromise for Them.

Heck, it might be less effort to buy a "better" bike (goodbye credit score) than actually put in the work to get in shape and become a better rider. (insert sarcasm emoticon)

(Then again... its also cheaper to bitch to you all about my DRZ ha)

[Sneeker 29]

This thread has done it's job and gotten me thinking... Might have to consider spinning off the Husky at some point for a plated KTM 350 EXC.

I need a little more out of my middle bike. It's mostly a tight gear tranny thing tho, too buzy at speed. The athena bore has plenty to give engine wise.

[Bagstr 287]

The "Best" bike is only as good as the set-up it has gone through.

Any bike with; proper springs and sag, gearing for use, clean oil and filter, correct tires for use, is Superior to the Spanking New Deluxemobile with incorrect set-up.

There are guys on this site that can and have ridden their 950/990 on routes that challenge me on my Ity Bity 350. That said, I will burn fewer calories.

Therefore - The Answer is a question. How many calories do you want to burn?

What this Discussion is missing, a or two while watching Moto streaming on the Big Screen.

[tntmo 887]

Right now for me, I'm happy with the 450 sized dual-sport or enduro.

BUT... you also have a street bike, plus plenty of other family bikes in the garage- Your sonhas an MXer 450, wife has an enduro 450 and a dual sport 350, and you have a sport bike in there of your own.

We saw you went to borrego springs the other day, but didn't take your 450; you took the ZZR or ZX... whatever that little buzz bomb is... because of knobbies and high RPMS etc I assume... so; you have TWO bikes for your needs

This is true, but my ride to Borrego Springs was a street ride, not an enduro ride. When it comes to a ride I will be doing in the dirt, I have one bike I turn to. The other riders in my household have their bikes....chosen with input from me so that I have other bikes to choose from. If nobody else in my house was into riding, I would have one street bike and one enduro. Both are compromises.

We need to have a round-up ride of a bunch of different bikes with owners willing to swap out with each other so we can all get a feel for the other bikes. Sort of like a 70's "key party" without the wierdness the next time we all get together.

[bikeslut 1]

[Yeah but you and bikeslut are old as dirt so you guys have an excuse -

Heck, it might be less effort to buy a "better" bike (goodbye credit score)

most of this club is my age... or so; we seem to do all right riding with the whippersnappers... when it comes to HIKE a BIKE, that's when the age shows

buying a better bike doesn't hurt your credit... having no money in a bank account and weak earnings history hurts your credit... I have great credit and mediocre bikes

Whenever my family gets hit with an unexpected financial issue, we take it in stride... it's just money; we'll make more

[Goofy Footer 539]

The "Best" bike is only as good as the set-up it has gone through.

Any bike with; proper springs and sag, gearing for use, clean oil and filter, correct tires for use, is Superior to the Spanking New Deluxemobile with incorrect set-up. ....

Therefore - The Answer is a question. How many calories do you want to burn?

What this Discussion is missing, a or two while watching Moto streaming on the Big Screen.

I agree with much of what you're saying and I'm learning the importance of personal set-up. While I'm pretty upset with the 525 at the moment, I really should take the time and get it properly sorted/set-up for me. Static And Dynamic sag, bar positioning, lever adjustments and most importantly to me right now - that damn steering top nut thingy to put some sort of resistance into it's utterly too loose steering feel. I talked with Steve, the owner of C&D about the differences between Japanese and European bikes (especially the linkless KTMs). It definitely made me think about the "set up it has gone through" and what I may have been missing. While I'm not certain the 525 is "the" bike for me, I should properly and fully set it up for my tastes before I make an ultimate decision.

Also - calories are cheaper and healthier to burn than $$

--- --- --- --- ---

I had the chance to ride a steel frame 06 WR450F today and it reminded me of the notion that no matter how much some things change, they stay the same. I liked the WR's powerplant. It had solid amount of torque and usable pull. With all the power on tap, I think that clutch feel and modulation is very important in terms of smoothly applying that power to the ground. The engagement of the clutch on this particular bike was pretty far away from the bars (I prefer it closer) but that's merely a set-up adjustment.

The brakes felt excellent to me, effective but not grabby. The bike seemed very stable at speed even when I was trying to jostle it loose. The suspension was done by George (suspenders) and the valving felt good to me (still very much need to test it off road though!). Like an old 01 YZ250F (steel frame) that I had, I felt as if I was sitting more "on top of the bike" versus being "in the bike". I kind of enjoy the feeling of sliding up and onto the tank, putting my foot forward and weighting the front wheel through a turn and sitting on top might restrict that some (again I need more time on the bike to determine it's handling). Overall, the bike felt good and I'd love to run it hard in the desert!

Anybody else care to share some riding impressions from their bikes? I'd love to hear how yours feels, handles etc

[bluefin2na 0]

The mighty KLR 650 super slug will test the skills of any rider at a weigh of over 400 pounds and crappy springs. So there

[Crawdaddy 96]

Anybody else care to share some riding impressions from their bikes? I'd love to hear how yours feels, handles etc

Real World KTM 350EXC Impressions (I've also piped in about my 350F-XCW starting at page 9......my F-XCW is the same bike without the smog crap and with offroad ECU mapping)

[Spaugh 1]

What was wrong with the 525 tim? Those were pretty nice tractor type bikes. Not super nimble or explosive but good for desert riding. I think the 525 was my favorite RFS size of 400/450/525

[Zenosan 2]

Don't let the contemporary prejudice toward "newest must be best" crowd turn you off to older bikes. The fact is that bikes haven't really changes all that much in the last 30 years from my perspective. Most bikes don't need motorcross suspension, seat heights of 38", watercooled engines, disk brakes, or even e start. The fact is that most thirty year old bikes can do most of what modern bikes can do with a few advantages. Air cooled engines, cable drum brakes (disk brakes are really only needed for motorcross racing), great power to weight ratio, realistic seat heights, solid quality metalurgy in engines, frames and rims. Frames that are functional and practical (you can mount racks with no problem and attach tow ropes easily). If you are not going to race motorcross why handicap yourself with that technology. Get a bike that will actually fit the purpose.

Sometimes simpler is just better.

[Guest Crusty]

Don't let the contemporary prejudice toward "newest must be best" crowd turn you off to older bikes. The fact is that bikes haven't really changes all that much in the last 30 years from my perspective. Most bikes don't need motorcross suspension, seat heights of 38", watercooled engines, disk brakes, or even e start. The fact is that most thirty year old bikes can do most of what modern bikes can do with a few advantages. Air cooled engines, cable drum brakes (disk brakes are really only needed for motorcross racing), great power to weight ratio, realistic seat heights, solid quality metalurgy in engines, frames and rims. Frames that are functional and practical (you can mount racks with no problem and attach tow ropes easily). If you are not going to race motorcross why handicap yourself with that technology. Get a bike that will actually fit the purpose.

Sometimes simpler is just better.

x 2

Rode all over Carlsbad and Oceanside this weekend on my OLDSCHOOL XR 680L this weekend.

[Goofy Footer 539]

What was wrong with the 525 tim? Those were pretty nice tractor type bikes. Not super nimble or explosive but good for desert riding. I think the 525 was my favorite RFS size of 400/450/525

I can't get fully comfortable on the bike. To me, the steering is way too loose. With two fingers pinching the grips on either end, I can slightyly tug on the bars and the whole bike (not just the front end) goes into a wobble frenzy - and this is on street! When I'm riding it, I keep thinking that any random pothole or rock is going to catch my wheel and send me flying. It's not been confidence inspiring. To me, it acts twitchier than meth binge.

On the dirt I feel the brakes are very powerful but cause excessive front wheel dive through turns. I'm used to using the clutch for control through certain turns (and enjoy using the clutch) - I feel the torque on demand power of the 525 might make me a lazy rider. For suspension - I should be close to the factory weight for the stock springs and I had my static sag properly set for me but I wasn't comfortable through whoops and obstacles. It didn't feel planted to me. Add the loose steering into the equation and I felt that I was all over the place - trying to hold the bars straight while my rear end danced side to side.

The suspension can handle jumps much better than the DRZ, the overall build quality is better, the bike is physically much lighter, the motor and gearing are far superior and it's a higher performing bike than the DRZ. Buut so far I'm not comfortable on it. To be honest, I'm uncomfortable with it's twitchiness. I crashed on street the other night when I was forced to make a quick decision and the bike didn't react as I thought it would. I don't like crashing and I Hate crashing on pavement. I might keep the 525 a tad longer and try to better set it up for me but I don't want to waste time and money "chasing a feeling" that I'll be comfortable with. I'm actualy seriously contemplating selling it, keeping the DRZ for dualsporting/trips/desert and getting a plated 250F enduro for singletrack/vet track riding.

[Goofy Footer 539]

tntmo commented to me that I often emphasize how a bike "feels" after I test ride it...

I think this comes from a surfing background and having garage shaped a few boards for myself. I really don't particularly care what the dimensions (specs) are on any given board - it's how it rides. With either shaping or having a custom board made, I never built to specs, I built towards a specific feeling or experience.

"How it rides" varies between rider specs (weight/height/strength etc), riding style (aggressive, over the bars, mx style, foot out), rider ability, terrain of choice and personal rider preferences.

To me there is no universal right/wrong, merely what is better/worse for You. Hence why I'm asking for detailed input from all of you in this thread. Great info and great discussion guys! Keep it coming!

[HVYWT 3]

Reading your last posts I understand. The feel! Back in my day Maico's had the feel, you get one and get it on :D/> .

I don't what size you are, I have found KTMs seem to have to be really personalized. Fork rake, sag set is about what works for you,steering damper (lot of $) and adjustment, springs and valving (my biggest help) forks.

Did just forks on BMW and some time adjusting shock and night and day difference. Whoops are fun, straight and clean. :good:/>

[robertaccio 406]

4 strokers, I'm a big fan of intermediates, KTM350 ok, Husky 310 even better, WR250 mod 300, CRFx mod 300. they are small like 250Fs and very near same weight but have a boost in power, very user friendly power, not get tired power, enough to propel 210lb me around and up and down with no issues.

[Spaugh 1]

What was wrong with the 525 tim? Those were pretty nice tractor type bikes. Not super nimble or explosive but good for desert riding. I think the 525 was my favorite RFS size of 400/450/525

I can't get fully comfortable on the bike. To me, the steering is way too loose. With two fingers pinching the grips on either end, I can slightyly tug on the bars and the whole bike (not just the front end) goes into a wobble frenzy - and this is on street! When I'm riding it, I keep thinking that any random pothole or rock is going to catch my wheel and send me flying. It's not been confidence inspiring. To me, it acts twitchier than meth binge.

On the dirt I feel the brakes are very powerful but cause excessive front wheel dive through turns. I'm used to using the clutch for control through certain turns (and enjoy using the clutch) - I feel the torque on demand power of the 525 might make me a lazy rider. For suspension - I should be close to the factory weight for the stock springs and I had my static sag properly set for me but I wasn't comfortable through whoops and obstacles. It didn't feel planted to me. Add the loose steering into the equation and I felt that I was all over the place - trying to hold the bars straight while my rear end danced side to side.

The suspension can handle jumps much better than the DRZ, the overall build quality is better, the bike is physically much lighter, the motor and gearing are far superior and it's a higher performing bike than the DRZ. Buut so far I'm not comfortable on it. To be honest, I'm uncomfortable with it's twitchiness. I crashed on street the other night when I was forced to make a quick decision and the bike didn't react as I thought it would. I don't like crashing and I Hate crashing on pavement. I might keep the 525 a tad longer and try to better set it up for me but I don't want to waste time and money "chasing a feeling" that I'll be comfortable with. I'm actualy seriously contemplating selling it, keeping the DRZ for dualsporting/trips/desert and getting a plated 250F enduro for singletrack/vet track riding.

for brakes, try organics, they are less grabby.

As far as stability or twitchy steering, that should not be the case on that particular model. it should be stable at full tilt 100MPH. sounds like you just need to get used to it and or setup is not right.

[Goofy Footer 539]

I might keep the 525 a tad longer and try to better set it up for me but I don't want to waste time and money "chasing a feeling" that I'll be comfortable with. I'm actualy seriously contemplating selling it, keeping the DRZ for dualsporting/trips/desert and getting a plated 250F enduro for singletrack/vet track riding.

Fancy that, I found a plated WR250F and took it to the Otay Vet Track - had a freaking blast. I need to dial in the handlebar to seat sizing some but straight out of the box it felt great to me. Lots of fun blasting laps and I still felt fresh at the end of the day.

After talking with Steve at C&D about the KTM he offered to set up the 525 for me. Decision Doom Day is coming soon to my garage...

[CalNub 0]

Decision Doom Day is coming soon to my garage...

1..2..3...... Wait a minute. You're holding out on us.

[Goofy Footer 539]

Decision Doom Day is coming soon to my garage...

1..2..3...... Wait a minute. You're holding out on us.

My apologies. The Dub is back in business but has no business being in a performance bike thread...

CalNub, go eat a snickers..

[CalNub 0]

My apologies. The Dub is back in business but has no business being in a performance bike thread...

CalNub, go eat a snickers..

I'm more of a three musketeers guy.

Ps: I told you it needed a bigger pilot jet. :-D

[zancat 0]

<snip> cable drum brakes (disk brakes are really only needed for motorcross racing), <snip>

Sometimes simpler is just better.

I miss the feel of a rear drum brake!

I will try the organics.....

Zancat

[Goofy Footer 539]

for brakes, try organics, they are less grabby.

I hadn't heard of oganic brake pads before - are they also sometimes called "carbon" brake pads? Thanks for the tip, that's the kind of good info I was hoping to get with this thread!

From ktmcyclehutt.com "Organic with ceramic layer for heat retention, lower friction rate than sintered pads give you better controlability"

From another website:

Sintered Brake Pads

- 100% sintered metals

- Very high coefficient braking in the wet as well

- Very hard and therefore extremely long lasting

- Particularly beneficial in extreme conditions (e.g. sand, gravel, etc.)

Organic Brake Pads

- Made from a special material mix with a high proportion of organic substances, therefore softer

- With ceramic underlayer for optimum thermal insulation

- Lower friction coeficient than sintered brake pads, so less aggressive braking feel

- Beneficial when particularly refined responsiveness is desired for ideal brake application

[paulmbowers 236]

Organic means they're created without pesticides or chemical fertilizers.