Current Communication Equipment

[paulmbowers 236]

Here's a funny thing that happened today- I looked at Bagster's image containing his zip-tied PTT jack and a thought occurred to me that I sent to RuggedRadios:

Hello! I'm a member of a San Diego motorcycle club, and have been recommending your products for some time. Here's the current thread on our website that features your products: http://dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17467-current-communication-equipment/

I'm contacting you today to suggest a product. Many of us forget to plug into the PTT when getting on the bike, and the current "pigtail" configuration means we have to pull over to use two hands to make the connection. Some of us have tried odd ways of connecting the jack to the bars, like this:

Making it rigid enough for one-handed operation.

Instead, how about something like your existing product:http://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=294_19&products_id=80 But without the radio jumper pigtail. In other words, a bracket-mounted PTT and jack system? Thanks.


To which I received the reply from their marketing guy:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the idea! That is a great idea. I will send this off to my boss and see if this is something we can put together. I appreciate you taking the time to reach out to us with this idea. It's customers like you that make this company grow and develop new products!

I thought that was very nice. Then, a few hours later:

Paul,

Mike forwarded your message. Great idea! I already went to the CNC and started the design. We should have production with in the 2 weeks. Follow up with Mike and when they are finished I would like to send one to you at no charge.

I founded this with the basic principles of listening to my customers and reacting quickly. I appreciate you taking the time to suggest ways to improve the communication experience.

--

Best regards,

Greg Cottrell
President

Rugged Radios

Cool!

[bikeslut 1]

GREAT! YOU get one free, and we all have to buy one... thanks for that

[paulmbowers 236]

GREAT! YOU get one free, and we all have to buy one... thanks for that

It's my pleasure!

[TwoWheelsGood 0]

Music, radio, phone, and Bluetooth:

I have a 990 and 'Berg 570, and want a good big bike, long miles listening to tunes and call mama solution, as well as a dirt bike, connected to riding buddies via radio solution. Also want to talk to mama the few times she's on the back of the bike. I run the same tank bag on both bikes, radio in the bag.

My setup:

• Yaesu 270 radio, unlocked by PMB .
• Sena SMH-5 speaker/intercom system, I have two sets for wife and I.
• Sena SR-10 Bluetooth 2-way radio adapter
• Sena PTT, comes with the SR-10, got a second for the second bike
• PTT extension, for if I want to carry the radio on my body.

How it works:

• Radio is connected to the SR-10 via a jumper cable, all in the tank bag.
• PTT on the bars, cord goes into tank bag.
• Turn on SMH-5, connects automagically to the phone.
• Turn on SR-10 and pair it to SMH-5 --> you press 2 buttons on each device, some lights on each start blinking for about 20 secs, SMH-5 tells me when "media is connected."
• Get a comm check via 2-way radio with riding partners.
• Turn on Pandora or music on iPhone.
• Get another comm check --> key the PTT, music stops, "you this is me," get reply, music starts back up again.
• Ride

An update:

Probably not quite ready for rugged, off-road use.

Notes:

• My Sena system is about a year old. I think for the newer ones, the speaker connecter interfaces with the Sena unit via a clip. Mine doesn't, the speakers are just plugged into the Sena unit. I upgraded the speakers last week (music sounds more awesomer) but the connector is looser than the stock speakers. The net is that while riding the Mojave Rd this weekend with the Big Bear Trail Riders, the connection would wiggle loose when I was hammering miles and miles and miles of sandy whoops. I suppose I could sell the Sena unit I have now and upgrade to the latest version but I'm unwilling to make that investment at this time.
• I put the SR-10, the thingy that creates the Bluetooth connection between my 2-way radio and the headset, in my tankbag, then connect it to the Sena PTT on the bars. But the SR-10 has it's own bigass PTT button on the top of the unit. It's very sensitive and would key itself from time to time in the tankbag, annoying my riding partner .
• So the second day I went back to a more analog solution but with a shoulder/PTT mic...which is also about useless, can't hear anything when moving.

So I took advantage of Rugged Radio's 4 day sale this weekend to hook up a second helmet kit (I DS and dirt helmets), PTT switches, jumper for my second radio. I'll keep the Sena system, wiring it up quickly when Mama wants to go for a ride on the 990 and will use it for road / easy dirt rides where I want the Bluetooth tunes, interface with a radar detector, etc.

[Vacman 0]

Music, radio, phone, and Bluetooth:

I have a 990 and 'Berg 570, and want a good big bike, long miles listening to tunes and call mama solution, as well as a dirt bike, connected to riding buddies via radio solution. Also want to talk to mama the few times she's on the back of the bike. I run the same tank bag on both bikes, radio in the bag.

My setup:

• Yaesu 270 radio, unlocked by PMB .
• Sena SMH-5 speaker/intercom system, I have two sets for wife and I.
• Sena SR-10 Bluetooth 2-way radio adapter
• Sena PTT, comes with the SR-10, got a second for the second bike
• PTT extension, for if I want to carry the radio on my body.

How it works:

• Radio is connected to the SR-10 via a jumper cable, all in the tank bag.
• PTT on the bars, cord goes into tank bag.
• Turn on SMH-5, connects automagically to the phone.
• Turn on SR-10 and pair it to SMH-5 --> you press 2 buttons on each device, some lights on each start blinking for about 20 secs, SMH-5 tells me when "media is connected."
• Get a comm check via 2-way radio with riding partners.
• Turn on Pandora or music on iPhone.
• Get another comm check --> key the PTT, music stops, "you this is me," get reply, music starts back up again.
• Ride

An update:

Probably not quite ready for rugged, off-road use.

Notes:

• My Sena system is about a year old. I think for the newer ones, the speaker connecter interfaces with the Sena unit via a clip. Mine doesn't, the speakers are just plugged into the Sena unit. I upgraded the speakers last week (music sounds more awesomer) but the connector is looser than the stock speakers. The net is that while riding the Mojave Rd this weekend with the Big Bear Trail Riders, the connection would wiggle loose when I was hammering miles and miles and miles of sandy whoops. I suppose I could sell the Sena unit I have now and upgrade to the latest version but I'm unwilling to make that investment at this time.
• I put the SR-10, the thingy that creates the Bluetooth connection between my 2-way radio and the headset, in my tankbag, then connect it to the Sena PTT on the bars. But the SR-10 has it's own bigass PTT button on the top of the unit. It's very sensitive and would key itself from time to time in the tankbag, annoying my riding partner .
• So the second day I went back to a more analog solution but with a shoulder/PTT mic...which is also about useless, can't hear anything when moving.

So I took advantage of Rugged Radio's 4 day sale this weekend to hook up a second helmet kit (I DS and dirt helmets), PTT switches, jumper for my second radio. I'll keep the Sena system, wiring it up quickly when Mama wants to go for a ride on the 990 and will use it for road / easy dirt rides where I want the Bluetooth tunes, interface with a radar detector, etc.

Interesting that you posted this as I was going to make a post thanking you for your advice on how to set up my system. Like you I have multiple bikes and didn't want a single hardwired solution.

I followed in your steps and set up a SMH5 in my Hornet with the SR-10/Baofeng with Kenwood adapter. I ran the external PTT button to my left grip. It worked great for streaming music and phone calls to my wife...I talked to her all the way from Victorville to Corona and she said it sounded better than the bluetooth in my Focus. The speakers aren't too awesome but with earplugs in at speed I don't know how much better it's going to get.

I agree the with PTT button on the SR10, at one point I zipped my tankbag shut and it keyed the mike resulting in PMB yelling about an open line. I wish it was disabled when the external one was plugged in. I had a microfiber in my bag so I just wrapped that around the SR10 and had no more issues.

Overall I'm sure that for regular riding the benefits of the bluetooth setup in the helmet for under $100 totally outweigh not having it. However, we'll see what happens over time. One thing I do like about the bluetooth setups is you can sync the headsets for communication within a group without needing radios and all the other stuff that goes with it.

For reference for those who (like me) were noobs on this just a couple of weeks ago:

• Baofeng UV-5R - HAM radio
• Sena SC-A0110 kenwood adapter to plug in Baofeng to SR10
• Sena SR10 - this will send bluetooth communcations to your bluetooth headset(s). Has PTT (built in and comes with external button/mount.) Can connect to anything with a 3.5mm jack for bluetooth streaming to headset. Sound quality suffers tremendously for music, however. I tried it both ways and music sounds better by far if you sync your phone directly with the SMH5
• Sena SMH5 - mounts on helmet. easily syncs with SR10 and phone.

I have an SAE plug on each bike and got an 18" SAE to cigarette lighter adapter and an inexpensive 2 USB charger. With this setup everything stays in my tankbag and I can quickly transfer it between bikes just by moving over the PTT button. With the USB charger I can keep my phone and SR10 fully charged all day and the SMH5 topped off when stopped using the same microusb cable that charges the SR10.

Thanks again for providing me with the information to get started on this TwoWheelsGood.

Tim

[paulmbowers 236]

I will say that while the Sena system sounds (on the receiving end) pretty good, a wired system has the edge in volume and clarity. Tim and I noticed some clipping at the beginning of my very, very important transmissions- long solos were OK, but short instructions were cut off at the beginning- the nature of the Sena switching.

[TwoWheelsGood 0]

Tim,

So do you have a newer SMH5, where the speaker connector thingy clips in and is held in more securely? I _just_ got the upgraded speakers. They come in two flavors, old (no clip) new (with clip). Mine is old and like I said it wiggled out over time on hard aggressive dirt bikey style riding. Annoying when you're listening to music but a bit of a safety issue when you're part of a group that's relying on good comms to function. I don't want to be That Guy so I hammered the CC this weekend to get setup with a no----- analog system for both bikes, both helmets. My radio + SR10 is also in a tankbag, WM Enduro and kinda tight in there. I've also put radio + SR10 in a goggle bag in a backpack, using the extension cord to wire it to the PTT on the bars. That worked.

Again, the dealbreaker for me this weekend was the connector wiggling loose.

To "fix" my current setup I'd need to drop $xxx on the newer SMH5 and upgraded speakers. FYI, they are worth the upgrade, MUCH better sound. In a couple weeks I'm doing a DV ride with a buddy who runs the SMH-10. I'll set him up with my radio + SR10 + PTT button and see how it works. I may mug myself (again) for the SMH-10 is if works well.

Until then I'm back to bulletproof analog, earbuds jammed into my ears, wired to iPhone in my pocket...but not giving up on the BT solution for longer, less aggressive ADV rides.

[Vacman 0]

Tim,

So do you have a newer SMH5, where the speaker connector thingy clips in and is held in more securely? I _just_ got the upgraded speakers. They come in two flavors, old (no clip) new (with clip). Mine is old and like I said it wiggled out over time on hard aggressive dirt bikey style riding. Annoying when you're listening to music but a bit of a safety issue when you're part of a group that's relying on good comms to function. I don't want to be That Guy so I hammered the CC this weekend to get setup with a no----- analog system for both bikes, both helmets. My radio + SR10 is also in a tankbag, WM Enduro and kinda tight in there. I've also put radio + SR10 in a goggle bag in a backpack, using the extension cord to wire it to the PTT on the bars. That worked.

Again, the dealbreaker for me this weekend was the connector wiggling loose.

To "fix" my current setup I'd need to drop $xxx on the newer SMH5 and upgraded speakers. FYI, they are worth the upgrade, MUCH better sound. In a couple weeks I'm doing a DV ride with a buddy who runs the SMH-10. I'll set him up with my radio + SR10 + PTT button and see how it works. I may mug myself (again) for the SMH-10 is if works well.

Until then I'm back to bulletproof analog, earbuds jammed into my ears, wired to iPhone in my pocket...but not giving up on the BT solution for longer, less aggressive ADV rides.

I believe so, it's an SMH5-2. There is also an "FM" unit so that might be the one you're talking about. The speaker plug in on mine snaps in very securely. Here's a pic of the actual unit from Amazon:

[TwoWheelsGood 0]

Yeah, I think your -2 refers to the more secure speaker clip and your mic? Mine is on a boom vs the one in that pic.

Your setup is probably 95% good. I just don't want to spend the money right now to duplicate yours with what I already have.

Just key your mike half a tick before you start talking.

And I've ridden a lot with Paul. Half of what he has to say isn't half as important as he thinks it is so...

And if delayed Sena switching reduces the singing, that's a total win...

[Vacman 0]

Yeah, I think your -2 refers to the more secure speaker clip and your mic? Mine is on a boom vs the one in that pic.

Your setup is probably 95% good. I just don't want to spend the money right now to duplicate yours with what I already have.

Just key your mike half a tick before you start talking.

And I've ridden a lot with Paul. Half of what he has to say isn't half as important as he thinks it is so...

And if delayed Sena switching reduces the singing, that's a total win...

Haha, I also learned that if I "accidently" keyed while he was singing i got blissful silence on my end for a few seconds. Quite useful on the slab between attractions in DV.

I think the -2 represents the wired mic versus a boom mic. It appears that the FM version has the better speakers and an actual lock on the plugin for the speakers/mic:

In retrospect the extra few dollars is probably worth it for the apparently better speakers and potential better durability of the connection over time. As I invest in additional headsets for my inlaws maybe I'll pass mine down and buy one of these FM units for myself.

EDIT: Ok I stand corrected again. I just went at looked at my helmet. My non-FM unit does have the same locking clip mechanism as shown in the picture above and NOT the original pic that I posted a few posts up. This is the exact unit I have:

[TwoWheelsGood 0]

Ok. Yeah, that clip system looks solid, MUCH better than what I have. Uggg...

[paulmbowers 236]

And I've ridden a lot with Paul. Half of what he has to say isn't half as important as he thinks it is so...

And if delayed Sena switching reduces the singing, that's a total win...

Aw, this just stings.

[Afry 1]

Rugged Radios now carries a re-branded Boafeng for twice the price @ $85. It might make warranty returns easier but so far they are bullet proof and for that price you could buy a back up elsewhere.

One minor bonus is it is preprogrammed with this stuff:

"Comes pre-programmed with over 40 popular channels including Best In The Desert, Baja Pits, Weatherman, BFG Relay, Rescue, Checkers, GMRS channels, and more!"

http://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=296_35&products_id=1274&utm_source=Rugged+Consumers&utm_campaign=0813898e74-RH_5R3_19_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29b332f7ed-0813898e74-47259377

[stuckthrottle 1]

My current setup which is overkill for non-racing applications but that works excellent with obnoxiously loud exhausts during sustained open throttle conditions (baja racing) is a Kenwood-TH22 with a PCI kit ( https://www.pciraceradios.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=3739737317783273729 ). The real trick though is the addition of either the custom molded or foam earplugs. They attenuate the sound, allowing you to concentrate and enjoy the views before you( http://www.ottoexcellence.com/dual-earphone-option-2-5mm.aspx ).

When just cruising around however, this cheapie eBay kit has worked well enough for me ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-PIN-Motorcycle-Helmet-Headset-For-Kenwood-Radio-/180738977670?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item2a14e1ef86 )

19.00 bucks is hard to beat.

[Goofy Footer 539]

I recently rode with this PCI Race Radios helmet kit. I rode apart of a training exercise and found that radio to radio comms were poor/inconsistent (long distances, hilly terrain etc) but when using a designated radio relay "weatherman" sitting on high ground with a powerful radio, comms were greatly greatly improved - just a thought for next year's Desert Dash. Without the weatherman I would have been SOL when I got a large nail through my rear tire while miles away from support.

I am able to keep the helmet kit for more testing and practice. I'm pretty sure I used this PCI / ICOM radio during the exercise but my question now is how can I connect the PCI helmet kit with a non-PCI radio?

[paulmbowers 236]

Kit looks similar to the RR or BD, which means you need only change the radio pigtail.

Yes, I've long fantasized about using a repeater for emergency comms at Desert Dash, and there ARE repeaters in place that could be used- specifically at Superstition.

But.

Everybody would need to be licensed and familiar with setting freqs and subtones for those repeaters. Of course, in a true emergency (not a nail n the tire) any frequency may be used to summon help.

[Goofy Footer 539]

Thanks for the reply Senor PMB. I have a few follow-up questions:

-When you say radio pigtail are you referring to the "Radio Adapter Cord" in the above picture? I have that piece.

-Is the 2 prong connector (one longer and one shorter pin) a universal plug for most handheld radios?

-On the other side (left in the pic) of the radio adapter cord there is a small connector that mates to the PCI harness. I believe it is a 5 pin connector but I'd have to verify tonight. Is that typically proprietary to PCI, RR or BD or is it a universal as well?

-For DD communications (could be its own thread), I hope sweep/medic teams have Sat phones as I believe them to be more reliable on the aggregate, for the common user, than radio. I do not know the laws on using existing repeaters and licensing but I assume the jurisdiction/enforcement of those laws falls within the borders of the US? Please confirm. I intend to abide by all local law.

-For my typical handheld radio use, I would not use a relay nor repeaters and only employ the radios for close two way communication (may or may not be in the US).

-For the DD could we legally create a temporary relay (big antenna on somebody's truck parked atop Superstition or Sunrise Hwy) so we could expand the range on the SDAR channel?

[paulmbowers 236]

-When you say radio pigtail are you referring to the "Radio Adapter Cord" in the above picture? I have that piece.

Yes.

That short cable adapts different radios to the universal harness.

-Is the 2 prong connector (one longer and one shorter pin) a universal plug for most handheld radios?

No.

Different radios use different connections- some overlap, but most are unique to the brand or model.

-On the other side (left in the pic) of the radio adapter cord there is a small connector that mates to the PCI harness. I believe it is a 5 pin connector but I'd have to verify tonight. Is that typically proprietary to PCI, RR or BD or is it a universal as well?

I don't know if they are universal, but all the 5-pin connectors I've see will interchange. I've not used a PCI but they look suspiciously like the RR which I believe manufactures them- as they used to for BD. Originally, BD used Avcomm, an avation supplier. My understanding is that BD no longer sells radio gear.

-For DD communications (could be its own thread), I hope sweep/medic teams have Sat phones as I believe them to be more reliable on the aggregate, for the common user, than radio. I do not know the laws on using existing repeaters and licensing but I assume the jurisdiction/enforcement of those laws falls within the borders of the US? Please confirm. I intend to abide by all local law.

I would respectfully disagree with the assessment of Sat phones in lieu of group comms. Sure, they MIGHT be more reliable for 1 to 1 phone calls, but radios allow full-time comms with EVERYBODY in an immediate way. And since the radios are continiously monitored through helmet sets, updates/advisories etc are always available to the rider- not just when available for a call. For me, it's that group communication that contributes to safety. If I'm missing, I'd prefer one person to transmit to the entire group: "Hey, where is Bowers?" Rather than try to make five different phone calls to five different riders who may or may not be resting under a tree with the phone powered up.

-For my typical handheld radio use, I would not use a relay nor repeaters and only employ the radios for close two way communication (may or may not be in the US).

And that's typical for most of us, and still very helpful in group rides. But (for the record) it's still against the laws of this great land- in fact, it's a violation of the letter of Federal Law.

-For the DD could we legally create a temporary relay (big antenna on somebody's truck parked atop Superstition or Sunrise Hwy) so we could expand the range on the SDAR channel?

Certainly.

Not just a Big Antenna, but Big Power as well. The repeaters work like this- we use tiny (5 watt or less) power from tiny radios to transmit to the Big Repeater located geographically to be easily reached, typically on a mountaintop with line-of-sight abilities over all the terrain. That signal is then rebroadcast with Big Power (say-250 watts)from that mountaintop to all the other tiny radios. It's a system used by LEO and emergency professionals all the time. As you pointed out, the Baja guys use The Weatherman, who sets up repeaters on a mountaintop somewhere in Baja.

However.

That's using a lot of power, broadcasting in the true meaning of the word. That means we're obligated to follow the letter of the law- all stations (riders) must be licensed and follow proper protocol- it's not just a coupla guys using radios miles from anyone else in the desert anymore.

AND...

repeaters already exist in those places. Laguna and Superstition, perfect for our use, are placed strategically to cover the desert. Might even be possible to use one or the other to cover the entire event, but we'd need to do some research for that which sounds like fun for everyone. The ham clubs that install and maintain these repeaters would be happy to let us use them for a small membership fee(s) to their clubs- and I do mean small- $20 per station per year or something. It's pretty casual. Often, these clubs will send helpful hobbyists to run comms- they do it for running races, etc. But again, each station would need to be licensed and follow appropriate procedures.

Yes, it would be very helpful (I've been saying this for years) to have a "hailing" frequency for DD monitored by sweep riders and home base, that can connect parties needing assistance. Most groups will talk casually between themselves on simplex, but if separated for more than an agreed interval, change their radio settings and reconnect on the repeater frequency and regroup. Further, sweep riders can ask the base (oh, let's call it CommandCenter!) to make phone calls for assistance or for tow trucks, parts, etc.

However.

Most of us (myself included) are radio clods who cannot program our radios. The radios themselves are designed so pooly it's as if they were meant to be anti-intuitive. Most riders are not licensed and don't care to spend the time to do so, nor learn the proper radio procedures- it takes a lot of time.

So we lose that extra layer of safety we could be sharing.

PS: The Baofeng radios offer a secondary channel monitoring- perfect for this type of work. One operates talking to one's riding group, but can hear comms on the secondary (presumably the hailing frequency) and switch over to transmit there if necessary.

[PbdBlue 46]

East County Repeater Association has repeaters on Monument Peak and Superstiition effectively covering most of the DD. We would need their permission to use them for the event but that usually is not an issue. Any terrestrial radio is going to be limited by terrain so a repeater would be the best solution. I have been a volunteer radio comm person on a bunch of desert/my Laguna trail run events. If I recall we used the Mt Laguna repeater. It wasn't perfect but had pretty good coverage.

Rugged radios, Baja Designs, Avcomm and PCI harnesses are all compatible.

[hodnettjj 0]

As a licensed person... that regularly uses radios... and has ran both sweep and medical...

Comms are an issue... Sat phone, repeaters, or simplex each have thier own issues... none being completely perfect...

I have suggested before that we reach out to the ECRA or some other radio club to do an assessment of the desert dash communication plan... or come out and help run the event... (think... weatherman)... clubs usually use events like this to exercise thier own equipment & SOPs...

There are radio nerds on standby that live for this stuff...

[paulmbowers 236]

Yup.

[Daniel 0]

As a licensed person... that regularly uses radios... and has ran both sweep and medical...

Comms are an issue... Sat phone, repeaters, or simplex each have thier own issues... none being completely perfect...

I have suggested before that we reach out to the ECRA or some other radio club to do an assessment of the desert dash communication plan... or come out and help run the event... (think... weatherman)... clubs usually use events like this to exercise thier own equipment & SOPs...

There are radio nerds on standby that live for this stuff...

What Jason said. ECRA or another organization might have enough linked repeaters to cover the whole area. The tricky part is trying to cover both the S2 side and then over the mountains into OW and down and across to superstition. It would be worth asking a local ham radio group for help. They could even deploy a vehicle to act as a repeater if there was an area that did not have sufficient coverage. Of course - this would mean that the people using the system would need to be licensed.

[paulmbowers 236]

But.

Were we to invite a ham club to help, they'd likely take a very narrow view of the fairly common illegal practice of riders operating simplex without licenses. These folks take this stuff pretty seriously.

[Covered in Dust 163]

But.

Were we to invite a ham club to help, they'd likely take a very narrow view of the fairly common illegal practice of riders operating simplex without licenses. These folks take this stuff pretty seriously.

Plus even us with a license never really use proper radio protocol.

CiD

[Daniel 0]

Well, those are valid concerns Paul and Chris. I mean, the big question is if one vehicle parked at, lets say Diablo dropoff, would be able to cover the whole or most of the desert? I don't think I'd be high enough. There are repeaters that cover most areas though, so we could monitor those for traffic from the sweep team. However, sat phones might be the best bet here.

Now I am kinda curious about propagation.