EddieEarl 6 Posted October 30, 2016 I'm riding a 2013 KTM 500 EXC and I currently have the over-sized 4.1gal Acerbis on the bike. I've done everything possible to get rid of a slight "push" in the front end (countless conversations with my suspension guy@Suspenders ... huge shout out to George) and I'm heavily considering going back to the stock tank. Has anyone experienced a significant steering/handling difference on this specific chassis when going from a stock to over-sized tank, or vice versa? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bp619 104 Posted October 30, 2016 I had the husky 350 same basic chassic and pretty much installed the 4.1 right off bat never thought anything of it until i went back to the stock tank and noticed a big difference before i sold i was going to make fuel lines for both setup so swapped would be just pulling tank and pump out then install in new tank and no fiddling over the fuel lines. or you could sell the 4.1 and get the 3.0 acerbis and never take off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Bp619 said: ... never thought anything of it until i went back to the stock tank and noticed a big difference Copy that. Good to hear I am not alone. So which setup did you like better? I assume the chassis felt much more stable with the stock tank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bp619 104 Posted October 30, 2016 Yup felt way better with stock, the front end felt little light in deep sand like it needed a stabilizer though since it took weight off. since im tall and fat (according to george) i sit pretty far back on bike though and with that riding style makes front end very light Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bp619 104 Posted October 30, 2016 Also if i remember correct can run steering stops in more with stock tank Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 30, 2016 By steering stops do you mean the bars are able to turn farther? And did you ever run the 3.5 gal? If so howd that compare? I know the 3.5 uses the stock shrouds vs the 4.1gal which has them built in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bp619 104 Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, EddieEarl said: By steering stops do you mean the bars are able to turn farther? And did you ever run the 3.5 gal? If so howd that compare? I know the 3.5 uses the stock shrouds vs the 4.1gal which has them built in. Yup to bars turn further, no never ran other tank only the 4.1 and stock husky stock is .2 or .3 gal more also than ktm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagstr 287 Posted October 31, 2016 I call,,, my mother on Sunday! George must be tellin' you to set the Shock Rider Sag to 110 - 112mm. Owner's Manual calls out 9mm of spring pre-load and 105-115mm of Rider Sag. As to the forks; I have mine set to One Ring above the top clamp ( 2.5mm ) for Off-road / Sand and 3 gallons of fuel. For Track use, I liked 2 rings or 5mm above with 2 gallons or less of fuel. KTM leaves you In The Dark with the front set-up. Unless you are running strictly track laps or Lark 45 minute loops, What is the purpose of optimizing the stock tank. Set it up for the 4 gallon and run 3 gallons of fuel for 125-150 mile range. "Slight Push" Please define. Knifing and dropping the front = A nervous twitchy feel. Push = slow to turn but stable. A bunch of weight in the tank is more likely to cause the front to dive than push. http://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2016-ktm-500exc/#cwxC8e55ylUtSuop.97 P.S. The size of the tank is only relevant to physical restriction. The amount of fuel you fill to relates to weight on front contact area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arjayes 1 Posted October 31, 2016 My 2013 500 EXC had the Acerbis 5.3 gal tank on it when I bought it. The guy I bought if from used it for long dual sport rides down in Baja. I rode once with that tank out in Ocotillo Wells and had a very hard get-off. Front end got away from me going too fast up a sandy/clumpy/rocky hill. After that I switched back to the stock tank and added a stabilizer. It took me a long time to recover from that wipeout so haven't even tested the new setup yet. Confident it will be much better, though. I also bought a second fuel pump so I can swap tanks easily when I want to dual sport on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagstr 287 Posted October 31, 2016 https://static1.squarespace.com/static/554f9e35e4b026a2b08fb22a/t/5790f662414fb5cf069ff9a4/1469118052579/Suspension+setup+guide+-+formatted+copy.pdf I found this Suspension Setup guide From Kreft a good read. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 16 hours ago, arjayes said: My 2013 500 EXC had the Acerbis 5.3 gal tank on it when I bought it. The guy I bought if from used it for long dual sport rides down in Baja. I rode once with that tank out in Ocotillo Wells and had a very hard get-off. Front end got away from me going too fast up a sandy/clumpy/rocky hill. After that I switched back to the stock tank and added a stabilizer. It took me a long time to recover from that wipeout so haven't even tested the new setup yet. Confident it will be much better, though. I also bought a second fuel pump so I can swap tanks easily when I want to dual sport on it. Sorry to hear about the get-off. Those SUCK. I had one last summer ... fast 4th gear left hand turn ... front washed out in the blink of an eye. Hit HARD. My "SI" joint is now always an unwelcome chronic searing pain in my life. Not cool, but I guess its the price we pay if we wanna ride. I do think the tank/weight make a difference on this chassis. I think it comes with precise engineering from the factory for the stock tank, and going from 2 to 4 gallons (or even 5.3 gal) is a BIG difference ... not just weight, but the increased ability for the fuel to move around inside a larger tank (and sling momentum around) as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 16 hours ago, Bagstr said: I call,,, my mother on Sunday! George must be tellin' you to set the Shock Rider Sag to 110 - 112mm. Owner's Manual calls out 9mm of spring pre-load and 105-115mm of Rider Sag. As to the forks; I have mine set to One Ring above the top clamp ( 2.5mm ) for Off-road / Sand and 3 gallons of fuel. For Track use, I liked 2 rings or 5mm above with 2 gallons or less of fuel. KTM leaves you In The Dark with the front set-up. Unless you are running strictly track laps or Lark 45 minute loops, What is the purpose of optimizing the stock tank. Set it up for the 4 gallon and run 3 gallons of fuel for 125-150 mile range. "Slight Push" Please define. Knifing and dropping the front = A nervous twitchy feel. Push = slow to turn but stable. A bunch of weight in the tank is more likely to cause the front to dive than push. http://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2016-ktm-500exc/#cwxC8e55ylUtSuop.97 P.S. The size of the tank is only relevant to physical restriction. The amount of fuel you fill to relates to weight on front contact area. Great stuff, Bags. George and I have the same type conversations. My description to him of what was happening was definitely a "push" description, but like you he thought it was more likely I was "knifing" until I told him when I increased front rebound damping that things got a lot better. After that, he was convinced I was "pushing" as well. Right now I'm at -12 on front rebound damping, increased from -15. I'm super close to increasing front rebound damping to -10, but I really don't want to go farther than that. George re-sprung me for correct rider weight (about 205-210 all geared up) and riding preference (fast dez versus slow trail). I'm two spring rates higher in the front (from .42 to .48) and I went from a rear stock spring of 7.2 to a true variable rate 7.5-8.5 which I really like. I'm not the tallest guy on the planet so right now my rear sag is 115, but maybe I could bring that down to 110 to put a little more downward pressure on the front tire. My forks used to be just under full flush with top triple clamp but I've adjusted that to the 2nd ring like yours to help with turning/steering. By "push" I mean "washing out". It's like under-steer (washing out) versus over-steer (plowing). What I'm learning helps quite a bit is to LEAN the bike over onto the side nobbys of the tire, versus staying more upright and steering with the bars. The chassis seems to do much better if I lean versus steer. I know that's a general rule of thumb anyways (obviously), but it seems especially true for my bike. It's almost as though I'm using the weight of the bike to drive the side nobbys (the tread on the edge of the tires) down into the ground. I not only get much better traction, the bike really wants to track true and straight, almost as if i DON'T do this that the bike wants to push at that point ... it does NOT like NOT being straight. If I get into a good lean I don't seem to wash out nearly as much. Maybe my solution is as simple as not riding like a lazy-ass and to lean my girl over and get into it a bit. I've describe it to my buddies like I'm 'scrubbing' the turns ... I pitch the bike over, stay directly on top of it, and push down hard on the outside peg. It's either that for slower turns, or for faster turns it helps to stand up, hang my ass over the rear fender, and steer with the rear. Here's another thing. I'm coming to grips with the fact I'm riding an ENDURO bike, not a RACK bike. Like most of us, I grew up riding "race" bikes. I never thought of them as "race" bikes. They were just regular dirt bikes. YZ250. CR250. YZ450F. CRF450R. Just good 'ol fashioned dirtbikes ... which I now understand are really race bikes. The rake, steering angle, chassis, rear linkage, fuel tank size, lack of Wolfmans, etc it was all VERY different than what I'm riding now, and I'm finally coming to grips with the fact that although I'm still riding a pretty gnarly dirtbike in comparison to say a big ADV bike, it's still quite a bit different than the race bikes I grew up riding. The bottom line is that I'm just not going to get my 500 EXC with Wolfmans and a 4 gallon tank to handle like the race bikes I grew up riding. At least that's what I'm telling myself right now. Always learning ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Covered in Dust 163 Posted October 31, 2016 I run a 6.6 gallon tank on my 525 and a 3 gallon tank on my 500. Going from bike to bike it takes me about 1/2 an hour to feel right on either bike after riding the other for an extended period of time. The main thing I try and do is to run the same front tire on both bikes. I'm not much help but I like to ride. CiD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 46 minutes ago, Bagstr said: 2 minutes ago, Covered in Dust said: I run a 6.6 gallon tank on my 525 and a 3 gallon tank on my 500. Going from bike to bike it takes me about 1/2 an hour to feel right on either bike after riding the other for an extended period of time. The main thing I try and do is to run the same front tire on both bikes. I'm not much help but I like to ride. CiD Front Tire -- good call. I think that plays more of a role than I've realized. My next front tire I'm gonna hit up that GoldenTyre fatty you guys are running. Right now I'm using the medium compound maxxcross 90/90-21 ... I think you guys have a 100/90-21, right? Is it med or hard compound? "I'm not much help but I like to ride." LOVE IT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 54 minutes ago, Bagstr said: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/554f9e35e4b026a2b08fb22a/t/5790f662414fb5cf069ff9a4/1469118052579/Suspension+setup+guide+-+formatted+copy.pdf I found this Suspension Setup guide From Kreft a good read. That was a good read - especially the section on Chassis Balance. Great info. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagstr 287 Posted October 31, 2016 Moving to 110mm will make a difference. And a Fatty . Currently running the 90/100 GT216 DST, which I believe to toward a medium compound. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 406 Posted October 31, 2016 you guys are there Bags good calls its all about set up, adding weight into the forks from both static and think about transfer when braking or setting up for turns. You need to set you bike up and if you want it for a big tank tank than get that dialed. Truth is I hate my "big" tank and on my TE300 its only @ 1/2 gal more......remember to have both ends set up in balance, the rear plays a huge part on how the front acts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Bagstr said: Moving to 110mm will make a difference. And a Fatty . Currently running the 90/100 GT216 DST, which I believe to toward a medium compound. Agreed. Changing to a stock tank, decreasing rear sag to 110m and adding in a couple clicks of front rebound damping might do the trick. Add in a new front fatty and I think I'll be about as good as I can get. Bags, you have the 90/100 and CiD has the 100/90 right? And first number always refers to width and second number refers to "aspect ratio" where the height is a percentage of the width, right? So, Bags would be 90mm wide and then 90mm high (90/100) ... and CiD would be 100mm wide and 90mm high (100/90). Do i have that right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, robertaccio said: you guys are there Bags good calls its all about set up, adding weight into the forks from both static and think about transfer when braking or setting up for turns. You need to set you bike up and if you want it for a big tank tank than get that dialed. Truth is I hate my "big" tank and on my TE300 its only @ 1/2 gal more......remember to have both ends set up in balance, the rear plays a huge part on how the front acts. Yeah I thought i would need a bigger tank, but I just don't need 4 gallons. This is my first plated bike so I think I over did it a bit. I'm either going back stock and will carry a little fuel in my wolfmans on longer rides, or I'll consider putting on the 3 gallon acerbis. I've tracked my mileage and I consistently get at least 45mpg so that 3 gal tank would get me just over a 125 mile range which is plenty for 95%+ of all rides I do. I also will NOT get another black tank. I love the look and I didn't think I wouldn't mind not being able to see the fuel line, but yeah, I mind. I wanna see the fuel line. The 4 gallon tank is obviously shaped so it acts as the radiator shrouds as well, and I just have to believe that fuel sloshing around in these areas would effect handling. I don't know, maybe it's too minor. Whereas the 4 gallon would allow both MORE fuel (weight) and allow the fuel to be farther out from the center of the bike (in the shroud) the 3 gallon allows less fuel overall but it also keeps the fuel more centered on the chassis. I think this could really effect things ... or at least for the way I ride. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 406 Posted October 31, 2016 GT216AA come in 90/100-21 (Steamroller/Fatty) and 90/90-21 which has been the standard FIM enduro width front for many years. https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/motorcycle/all-about-tires/all-about-tires Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, robertaccio said: GT216AA come in 90/100-21 (Steamroller/Fatty) and 90/90-21 which has been the standard FIM enduro width front for many years. https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-us/motorcycle/all-about-tires/all-about-tires Copy that. I thought there was also a 100/90 but I guess not. I've already got the 90/90 front so I'm 90mm W and 81mm H right now. The 90/100 would give me 90mm wide and 99mm Tall. Wow. That's almost 20mm taller than I am right now. That wouldn't do anything for steering right? Just maybe a lot beefier front tire I could run lower PSI with for more traction? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Champ 116 Posted October 31, 2016 Wow that's a lot of info. I am to simple for all that. When I first got my Husky I was experiencing bad scary front end steering issues. After I Got the suspension done (twice), George fixed it right, and then I put on a Golden Fatty. Also make sure your air pressures are right for the terrain, and have LOTS of knobs on the rear and twist throttle a lot. (I still crashed in the soft stuff Saturday). Remember on a bigger tank you don't have to fill it all the way. Ride crash repeat... See ya out there, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EddieEarl 6 Posted October 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Uncle Champ said: Also make sure your air pressures are right for the terrain ... Out in Ocotillo / ABDSP what do you guys run for PSI? I run about 14 psi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Champ 116 Posted October 31, 2016 Soft soft 11 to 14, ocotillo 14 to 18 depending on where I plan on going and with who. Generally 14 front 12 to 14 rear. Weight back, throttle. Its weird if I think oh sh-t that looks soft ,I have trouble, if I don't pay any attention the bike goes right thru. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
