Warning: Before jump starting from a car to bike.

[SCHWINN 0]

Sunday I rode to a friends house in Encinitas to help out a little Electrical work. I parked the bike and left the keys in it. I didn't turn the keys all the way off..

When I went to leave I realized the battery was dead and asked for a jump. I hooked up to the car and the bike started right up but my friend did not hear and started the truck up. Smoke came out from under my tank and bike died. AAA home. An hour later I discovered Main fuse Block melted and the 30Amp breaker melted in there too. Called ECC and they tell me they won"t sell the Block separately even tho it disconnects in seconds. I go down to ECC in person and throw a fit cuz its a difference in price from $30.00 to $ 300.00 and hours of work. Guess what? They found it separately for $ 31.41. My Kawasaki ZZR 1200 will be running Wednesday eve.

Don't ever hook up your bike to a running car.

[paulmbowers 236]

Huh. That does not make sense to me- maybe someone can help.

The car, if the regulator is working properly, cannot produce more than 13.x volts.

I'm betting there's another problem...

[Covered in Dust 163]

I'm no expert, but I think it's the amperage not the volts. The wiring on bikes is much smaller. I did the same thing to an old Honda I'm restoring. Stupid mistake cost lots of time and money to repair.

CiD

[paulmbowers 236]

I'm no expert, but I think it's the amperage not the volts. The wiring on bikes is much smaller. I did the same thing to an old Honda I'm restoring. Stupid mistake cost lots of time and money to repair.

CiD

True.

Covered in Lightning

[hobiee 28]

30 plus amps into a system built for 7 or 8

[paulmbowers 236]

30 plus amps into a system built for 7 or 8

Only if the car's battery was low.

I'll grant you, it overloaded the system, but I doubt 30 amps was flowing...

[bikeslut 1]

I'm no electrician, but have always heard the same

Car off or fry your bike-

[PastaPilot 17]

I'm no expert either, well I was a Navy electrician, but there is more stored electricity (amperage) in the car's battery than the alternator is capable of producing in the amount of time it was connected. Chances are your bike would've burned up regardless of whether he started the car or not. I was just a matter of time.

In aircraft when a battery is depleted below a certain voltage it is removed and recharged with a battery charger to avoid rapid recharging and excessive current draw from the aircraft generators to the dead battery. High current = high heat = burned parts.

There are dangers to jump starting vehicles. It is pretty rare but they do happen. Usually it's from a hydrogen gas explosion in the depleted battery, but other things can happen. My Mustang gets a new battery every couple years because I don't drive it enough to keep it charged. One time when a battery was crapping out I had a guy refuse to jump my car because a friend of his jumpstarted a car once and whiped out the CPU. That was his story anyway.

Glad you were able to get it fixed for $30.

http://www.edmunds.com/how-to/jump-start.html

[isde97 29]

I am going to chime in as well.

The starter circuit is probably separate from everything else, and the main fuse is downstream of the battery. Did you mean 30A fuse, or does your bike actually have a breaker? Any significant overcurrent situation would blow the fuse almost instantly. The starter motor may or may not be fused, or may have a fusible link. Maybe the starter solenoid/relay didn't let go?

Given what big charge accumulators the vehicle batteries are, I can't see where it would make any difference whether the car was running or not. Not running- 12.8 volts. Running- something like 14. The bike's voltage regulator probably outputs somthing like 14.5.

I think there is another problem that may or may not be related/caused by the low battery/ jump starting. I don't see how the car running would make a difference.

I would start with the starter relay- if it failed closed, it is going to pass a lot of current.

[SDlineman 0]

How about this theory; Since bike was running, as the truck engine is cranking the truck's battery voltage drops into the 10.5-11v range (not unusual during cranking) and the bike's charging system tries to compensate and overloads the fuse block. Doesn't explain why the fuse didn't blow, but I do know that 'lectricity doesn't always do what it's supposed to. Maybe a connection that wasn't so great and got hot before 30 amps was flowing? All just speculation.

[KTMrad 512]

If you start the car, too many amps from the car battery.

Jumping a car to bike, car must be off....period.

[hobiee 28]

Amps are a measurement of the pushing power to get the juice through the system at hand. The normal bike system carries batteries in the 4-maybe 10 amp range Upon starting is when the most amount of amps are necessary to turn the motor over.. The system on the bike was severely overloaded when the car was started as it pulled a high amp draw from the car battery through the cables into the bike system. Think of it like a garden hose hooked up to a fire hydrant. The volts don't come into play at all as they are both 12 volt systems.

[SCHWINN 0]

AMPS kill not electricity. This is taught in theory..The main fuse and starter relay are 1 in the same on my bike. There is a fuse panel and all are good. I knew as soon as he started the car I couldn't get it undone fast enough.

[kkug 146]

I always heard not to use regular jumper cables. Use small ones like they sell for motorcycles. KTM Dakar bikes have a built in jumper cable syestem so they can help each other out if needed.

[SDlineman 0]

I'm not sure if we want to turn this into an electrical theory discussion, but voltage is the "pressure", amperage is the measurement of flow. If there is no difference in voltage between 2 points, no amperage will flow. However, if there is no resistance in a circuit

(like jumper cables between 2 batteries) a lot of current will flow with just a small amount of difference between the 2.

Amperage is what kills, but it takes a pretty large amount of voltage to create enough to kill (OSHA considers anything less than 50 v non-lethal voltage) and AC is considerably more dangerous than DC at any voltage so 12v DC is very unlikely to flow enough amperage through your body for you to even feel it.

[SCHWINN 0]

I'm not sure if we want to turn this into an electrical theory discussion, but voltage is the "pressure", amperage is the measurement of flow. If there is no difference in voltage between 2 points, no amperage will flow. However, if there is no resistance in a circuit

(like jumper cables between 2 batteries) a lot of current will flow with just a small amount of difference between the 2.

Amperage is what kills, but it takes a pretty large amount of voltage to create enough to kill (OSHA considers anything less than 50 v non-lethal voltage) and AC is considerably more dangerous than DC at any voltage so 12v DC is very unlikely to flow enough amperage through your body for you to even feel it.

That was right from the book..What was that? Page 2 LOL. I was a electrician in another life for Berg Electric.

OSHA considers anything less than 50 v non-lethal voltage??????

A cops stun gun carries 50,000 to 100,000 Volts and its Non-Lethal????

[Bagstr 288]

One more take: Ha

Your bike is busted, fix it and done rune down battery.

That said, you "Charged" the battery too fast. High current causes heat. The car/truck has a large available current, looking for a path. The heat spread from the overheated battery.

Only leave cables connected long enough to turn over engine Or use Current limited source, I.e. trickle charge.

Now can we ride?

PS - BS, Good work getting your parts!

[Kris 0]

Amps kill not volts. Learned all that stuff getting certified for Toyota Hybrids, those batteries will kill you, (230-275 volts depending on model,lots of amps compared to a regular automotive battery.)

I'm not sure if we want to turn this into an electrical theory discussion, but voltage is the "pressure", amperage is the measurement of flow. If there is no difference in voltage between 2 points, no amperage will flow. However, if there is no resistance in a circuit

(like jumper cables between 2 batteries) a lot of current will flow with just a small amount of difference between the 2.

Amperage is what kills, but it takes a pretty large amount of voltage to create enough to kill (OSHA considers anything less than 50 v non-lethal voltage) and AC is considerably more dangerous than DC at any voltage so 12v DC is very unlikely to flow enough amperage through your body for you to even feel it.

That was right from the book..What was that? Page 2 LOL. I was a electrician in another life for Berg Electric.

OSHA considers anything less than 50 v non-lethal voltage??????

A cops stun gun carries 50,000 to 100,000 Volts and its Non-Lethal????

[SDlineman 0]

It is most definately in there somewhere. I can look for the exact section if you don't believe me. What I am saying is they don't consider anything less than 50v has the ability to kill someone. I'm pretty sure 50,000v has the ability to kill someone, a stun gun has circuitry to keep the amperage low enough to hopefully prevent it.

Electrician, huh? Amps kill, not electricity? What non-electric amps are there? Maybe they didn't teach me that in my 3 year apprenticeship.

[Kris 0]

Never said electricity doesnt kill. High amps kills not high voltage. Did not mean to imply that you could have amps with zero volts!!!

It is most definately in there somewhere. I can look for the exact section if you don't believe me. What I am saying is they don't consider anything less than 50v has the ability to kill someone. I'm pretty sure 50,000v has the ability to kill someone, a stun gun has circuitry to keep the amperage low enough to hopefully prevent it.

Electrician, huh? Amps kill, not electricity? What non-electric amps are there? Maybe they didn't teach me that in my 3 year apprenticeship.

[SDlineman 0]

Sorry, Kris, that was a response to schwinn, not you.

[SCHWINN 0]

It is most definately in there somewhere. I can look for the exact section if you don't believe me.

Oooooh I believe you. I went to the Non Union ABC School for 4 years. Bagster is also a electrician.

I did tons of underground and built huge electrical rooms but never had to trouble shoot anything or wire anything sooooo I am not a very good sparky but can read blue prints and build the crap of big rooms and bend pipe like crazy.

I didn't think this all was going to be a discussion but just a warning to think twice before hooking up to a car battery.

[SDlineman 0]

I thought it had turned into a civil discussion about why the smoke was let out of your fuse block/ starter relay until you turned into a smart ass. Watch out for those non-electric amps when you go to fix it.

[SCHWINN 0]

I thought it had turned into a civil discussion about why the smoke was let out of your fuse block/ starter relay until you turned into a smart ass. Watch out for those non-electric amps when you go to fix it.

[/quote

Part comes in today and hope that is all thats wrong.

Have we met?

Smartass ?....Maaaybe but lets face it, You reaaaaaly don't know me except for my screen name and I am bored in front of this computer at work.