10 news this morning

[DigDug 0]

This page finalized August 26, 2009

GP MOTORCYCLES SETTLES FOR $90,000

GP Motorcycles is a motorcycle dealer located in San Diego, California. GP Motorcycles was issued a Notice of Violation in September 2006, for selling off-road certified Husqvarna motorcycles as on-road motorcycles, many of which were equipped with ‘street-legal’ kits, all licensed and registered with on-road motorcycle plates, both illegal in California. After settlement discussions came to an impasse, this case was referred to the Attorney General’s office for prosecution. A settlement was entered in Superior Court in April, 2009, in the amount of $90,000 for Health and Safety Code violations, and Attorneys fees.

HERE IS THE LINK

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/casesett/gp.htm

Go up one level and take a look at all the settlements with CARB from 2009:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/casesett/casesett.htm

CARB is a "self-licking ice cream cone"... They stay alive with settlements (yup.. settlements, the few cases I looked at there never made it to court - legalized extortion!!!!). Fricking bloodsucking lawyers (no offense if there are any on the board that earn an honest living), probably the same ones that do the Sierra Club lawsuits...

In any case, I think I just found a list of preferred merchants to support - anyone that CARB has extorted money out from the list!!!

[City Slicker 0]

GP and MF need to contact their State Assembly member and State Senator.

I'm happy to help if they need it.

[Kevin 0]

A motorcycle dealer illegaly sells a bike for profit, and then is penalized $$$$ for the profit they made from this illegal sale is wrong?

And while this is happeining, other dealers that are playing by the "rules" thus loosing these motorcycle sales while the few profit from these illegal sales is right?.

It may take a while, but Johnny Law always wins!

[DigDug 0]

A motorcycle dealer illegaly sells a bike for profit, and then is penalized $$$$ for the profit they made from this illegal sale is wrong?

And while this is happeining, other dealers that are playing by the "rules" thus loosing these motorcycle sales while the few profit from these illegal sales is right?.

It may take a while, but Johnny Law always wins!

OK - I'm not a lawyer, but here's my take on CARB.

In a round-about way, you're right, they did break the law (since CARB exists because of a law - well at least I assume it does). My heartburn comes from the fact that the standards are set by a "board" of individuals (the B in CARB) and are not voted into law by lawmakers. Whatever CARB decides becomes law.

Then, CARB does the enforcement - they have a team of people that find perpetrators and do the research.

Then, and this is the part that disturbs me the most, they don't prosecute perpetrators in the normal fashion (i.e. - court), they threaten to sue them. Look through the list of cases I linked - most settled before a lawsuit. The perpetrators didn't commit a crime and stand trial, they committed a civil violation and were sued (the same way you can sue someone). No "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". No "if you can't afford an attorney, we'll appoint one for you", no "right to trial by jury" - just "if you don't agree to our settlement demands (extortion), we'll sue you". And these guys have DEEP pockets (heck - they have all the money from the previous settlements plus all your tax dollars) - there's no way a small company could EVER afford to fight it - so they pay whatever CARB demands. This is the part that bothers me the most.

You're right - these shops were wrong for doing something illegal, but were they doing it intentionally? Did the buyers know the bikes they were getting weren't truly street legal? Heck, maybe what they were doing WAS totally legal, but since they didn't have the resources to fight it in court, they had to bow to CARB's demands and pay the settlement (as a business owner, if it would have cost me more than the settlement to fight the issue - even if I was right - I would pay the settlement. It's just good business sense considering that "my" Husky's are now street legal). You could be totally legal (I'm not saying these dealers were), but if CARB decides to sue you, you'll wind up loosing because you can't afford to defend yourself against them - that's the part that disturbs me the most. It seems, to me anyways, to go against the American justice system.

Here's a short article (couple pages worth) on CARB: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficie...conomy/carb.htm

Now I'll go hide out so that the mob (aka CARB) can't find me....

[kiwi 0]

Nicely put Doug. They where the deciding factor for me to shut down my small business. Their fines and penalties could have buiried me in a deep hole, and I was not intentionally or knowingly breaking the law. Its not if, but when will they go after smog checks on bikes?.......

[lemieuxmc@yahoo.com 0]

We have been having a discussion about this on my SDAMC group. Here's my OPINION.

When a government agency fines a company (or an individual violator) it isn't in order to mitigate a problem or make some victim whole, it is to bring in revenue and intimidate other potential targets into voluntary compliance.

Two big guys in dark suits come into your store, "Nice little operation you have here, it would be a shame if something bad happened to it. You should pay us a small percentage of the gross as insurance". This is a classic mob extortion... now substitute a government agent for the 2 thugs and call it a mitigation fee. If you don't pay the government what they want, when they want it, men with guns will take you away. My vehicle registration fees just went up like crazy and I'm not seeing some magical improvement in highway safety.

"Rules" are applied in non-scientific and capricious ways by the politico-bureaucratic power bloc to extort money from the manufacturers of consumer goods and solicit donations and votes from the environmental whacktivist crowd. We aren't a big enough lobby to call any shots.

The more I know about new bikes, the more I like old bikes. And by the way, it is possible to transform any old junky pre 2000 bike into a new one. You just have to fill out the right forms at DMV to document the mods. I knew a guy in Vista who had a 55 Willys (plated), the only thing original on it was the grill and the black and yellow plate. Tube frame $2,500, fiberglass body $5,000, rat motor $7,000, sand paddles $2,000, current tags... PRICELESS!

Do you seriously believe that CARB serves some useful purpose other than extorting money from the people of California? The EPA sets stringent pollution regs for all manner of conveyance sold in the USA. Is the air in California somehow more virginal and fresh because it is magically protected by CARB from the air drifting in from Arizona, Mexico (god forbid!), Japan, India, China? Envirowhacktivits use junk science to provide a fig leaf for their goal of consolidating political power. Back in the day I worked at my fathers gas station, and we were always careful not to spill (it's dangerous!). The CARB decided that we needed to retrofit our nozzles with a vapor recovery system to capture the pollution from the fumes escaping (at our great expense, which we passed on to YOU by raising the price!). Now every time I put gas in the truck some of it spills on the ground because of the crappy design of the nozzle (it's dangerous!).

Please show me something, anything, that CARB has done that has a measurable positive impact on the air that YOU breathe.

[KTMrad 508]

Please show me something, anything, that CARB has done that has a measurable positive impact on the air that YOU breathe.

Well said !!

[dirt dame 559]

Please show me something, anything, that CARB has done that has a measurable positive impact on the air that YOU breathe.

Every time that I have bought a bike that is "red stickered", I get a little piece of LITTERature explaining that my new machine puts out as much emissions per mile as 110 new automobiles. I find this statement to be somewhat nebulous in what is being conveyed here, since I thought that all new automobiles run pretty darn clean. I'd have to think that 110 new automobiles are actually more polluting than my red sticker bike, because my bike only gets ridden about 100 miles max per week, whereas these 110 new cars probably can get driven 5 to 10 times more per week.

[cmayer31 3]

Here's an interesting post on this from another forum that I frequent. If anyone would like the link just ask, I'm not sure the rules on cross linking to other boards?

I race for Moto Forza and can shed a little light on all of this.

The shops are not going anywhere and other than paying a hefty fine are doing well.

Just for the record, the bikes were NOT modified at all. They were sold as delivered by the manufacture to all customers and customers were informed that they are not street legal, however, DMV had some sort of system error and was sending street legal plates and registrations to the owners. One Customer was sent a plate for the Husky 50cc dirt bike he bought for his 7 year old.

Both shops are guilty of selling bikes knowing that the DMV was going to send the wrong registration but NOT one customer was ever told that the bikes were street legal. One customer claims he was told the bike was street legal and only bought it based on that fact, but that customer is lying.

CARB claims the the shops should not of sold one additional bike once they were informed that DMV was making the Error, and by continuing the sale of the bikes they are at fault.

The line of bikes in question are now all street legal with the factory addition of a Charcoal Canister that captures Gas Tank vapors, it has nothing to do with Engine Emissions.

Ironically there might be a small issue with the slander of the shops by the article stating that they are the ones that modified the bikes illegally. That was never the case.

[dirt dame 559]

The shops are not going anywhere and other than paying a hefty fine are doing well.

Just for the record, the bikes were NOT modified at all.

Ironically there might be a small issue with the slander of the shops by the article stating that they are the ones that modified the bikes illegally. That was never the case.

Well, I'm glad for that clarification. After my business dealings with these guys, I could hardly believe that they would do such a thing. They are pretty much on the up and up, I've always thought, and I'm glad that they won't be negatively impacted so far as to put them out of business.

[Kevin 0]

It is illegal to convert a bike in California after 01/31/2004. It is amazing how people break the law and then get upset when they get caught. The facts are that their were bikes converted after this date, and thus the fines. If you disagree, then change the law. The old days of straight pipes, two strokes, and carburators are gone. Look forward, not backwards.

[lemieuxmc@yahoo.com 0]

Unfortunately Kevin, what you are failing to grasp is that it was legal before and the legislature took action to MAKE IT illegal. The fundamental basis of american freedom is NOT changing the law to allow us to do something, it is that we have a RIGHT to do things unless they are determined to be harmful to society. If you think that dual sport conversions are harmful to society, please identify yourself as someone who holds that opinion.

These same buffoons have run the State into bankruptcy and are poised to release 25,000 felons. Tobacco companies, brewers and distillers make millions selling products that are a major factor in thousands of deaths. Gun and ammo sales are at record levels, and the legislature doesn't want to accept my money for a license plate on a 230R. Geniuses.

[KTMrad 508]

Kevin is so adamant about his statement, only because he rides a BMW and the shops involved are their competitors

[Strega 0]

I think it's just silly that the bureaucrats have bankrupted our state, and don't want to take my money for a Dual Sport motorcycle that I'm really going to have on the street about 5% of it's life cycle.

I will never understand why things happen in government the way they do. Too many politicians are only looking out for themselves and the interest groups that give them big money to get re-elected. For every good politician I can show you 5 bad ones.

CA needs to take some notes from AZ on the DMV especially.

I love San Diego, but I can't wait to be in a financial position to leave and stop supporting such a corrupt state.

[dirt dame 559]

For every good politician I can show you 5 bad ones.

Really....ONLY five?

[lemieuxmc@yahoo.com 0]

And an afterthought for Mimi;

Don't feel guilty about your red sticker bike polluting more than a bunch of cars. I'm sure that the jets that Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, and Arnold are flying around in are spewing LOTS of nasty hydrocarbon particulates. Just the other day I was out in my kayak and a seagull had the nerve to ---- on me, I didn't hold it against him because he was in his element. When politicians ---- on me and my friends, I get angry.

[Kevin 0]

Kevin is so adamant about his statement, only because he rides a BMW and the shops involved are their competitors

Well stated Mr Lazar. Gary at SDBMW recently moved to his new location. Alot of you would be surprised of the fee's and "red tape" to get this accomplished. It took 2-years. Gary did it the right way and accepted that it is just a "cost of business". (Maybe thats why BMW are expensive) By the way, since my BMW is fuel injected, has a catalytic converted and is 85db, the CARB people wont be visiting me! Why don't we all now go riding instead of beating this dead horse!

Randy-we are heading north on Saturday with the Kozmanauts(3 days-no trucks or trailers). I am sure that you got your 950 running and you will join us!

[lemieuxmc@yahoo.com 0]

Kevin, do you have a shop?

Would you accept my money for servicing a 1973 RD400 with Bassani pipes?

The more I deal with new bikes, the more I like old bikes!

[Kevin 0]

Kevin, do you have a shop?

Would you accept my money for servicing a 1973 RD400 with Bassani pipes?

The more I deal with new bikes, the more I like old bikes!

The dinosaurs are gone, and so is your two stroke twin cylinder Yamaha RD400. A nice bike in its day, but technology has improved, thus making that bike obsolete. My buddy had a Yellow Kenny Roberts Edtion!

[KTMrad 508]

The dinosaurs are gone, and so is your two stroke twin cylinder Yamaha RD400. A nice bike in its day, but technology has improved, thus making that bike obsolete. My buddy had a Yellow Kenny Roberts Edtion!

If you can ride it, it ain't obsolete !

Your Dakar is obsolete

[mctrails 38]

Here's an interesting post on this from another forum that I frequent.

CARB claims the the shops should not of sold one additional bike once they were informed that DMV was making the Error, and by continuing the sale of the bikes they are at fault.

This is an unbelievable statement. The DMV makes mistakes ALL THE TIME. If this was true then no one should be able to sell anything that has to be registered through the DMV. What a bunch of crap!

[blind_in_1_ear 0]

Blind

[Kevin 0]

If you can ride it, it ain't obsolete !

Your Dakar is obsolete

Lazar, my bike runs-now-how about yours(been down for year)

[lemieuxmc@yahoo.com 0]

Recently I watched "Long Way Round" and actually laughed out loud at the part where Claudio (photographer) had a failure of his R1200 brakes. The fellows couldn't fix it so they purchased a twin cylinder, 2 stroke in Mongolia ($1,500? Do you take Visa?) I think it was an MZ . Claudio is heard to comment "It's so light and easy to handle!" Later they had a problem and some passing Mongolians helped them repair it with the supplied tool kit and a locally obtained BFR.

Larry Roeseler raced Baja on a 100cc Harley (Aermacchi). Cannonball Baker rode an Indian. Knievel jumped a Harley. Bernini worked with a chunk of marble, a hammer, and a chisel. Mallory wore wool knickers and shoes with hobnails. The new BMW's are nice, but so is my refrigerator. Legends are created by the human spirit, not the latest computer controlled, catalytic converted, non-owner repairable techno marvel.

[Bagstr 287]

Talk Radio vs Science

Talk Radio 7.5 - Science 3

I'm thinking of moving to somewhere with National Health care