Border Patrol a bit outa hand?

[Strega 0]

Take a look:

http://www.ridelust.com/pastor-horrificall...using-a-search/

The video:

Something doesn't seem right there...

More here:

[ADV Bum 205]

Since our taxes pay for these agencies, all video tapes should be made available to us as public records! They should not have the ability to release what they want. They like big brother watching when it is on thier side, but god forbid it go the other way.

[Strega 0]

After watching all of it.......I have 2 feelings...

I see the guy's point about unauthorized search.....but why not just let them do it if you don't have anything to hide?

I get it, I just don't get it...

[ADV Bum 205]

Watching the last video that has been posted probably explains alot about this a hole. He is resisting from the get go. If he wont answer questions then how do they ascertain whether he is an illegal immigrant. Not all illegals are of Mexican decent. Could you imagine smugglers saying " I just want to go on my way!". These same fu*k nuts will throw a fit that we are not doing enough.

[dirt dame 561]

Well, he is resisting, but if they are lying about the dog's reaction or making up stuff just because they have a hunch about somebody, that just seems wrong. I'm surprised that they can't make up better lies that are less inflamatory, like they are just doing "random" spot checks or something like that, so that the person doesn't feel like he is being so singled out, which he was. I'd probably be suspicious of somebody who didn't want to comply if they were being somewhat surely from the git-go. I don't think that I would have the right to beat their windows in and stand on their head, unless they were being violent or trying to escape and endangering other people.

[husky4me 0]

Unfortunately there are some "bad apples" in all governmental or law enforcement agencies all over the world. It is not just a USA phenomena. I'm sure there are lots of good dedicated border patrol and custums agents around (probably the majority), but then there are those who abuse their power and like to intimidate and provoke fear. This is no excuse, and we should as a society always strive to become better.

I understand that customs and border patrol may be "overly cautious" due to the all the recent violence in Mexico. But, sometimes they intimidate the wrong good guy for no reason. My good friend from Guadalajara, Mexico came to visit me together with his pregnant wife (with valid passport and visa). As common in Mexico, he has one of those last names that are very common. When crossing the San Ysidro border station and giving his passport and visa, the officer arrested him, handcuffed him, intimidated him (was very rude), had the pregnant wife crying, and the officer explained later that he had the same name of a "dangerous criminal" so that is why he was temporarily arrested. Anyway, who knows if the officer was really not too smart, or just wanted to intimidate, but a lot of the tourists that come legaly to visit San Diego to come shop and go to Sea World, are sometimes not comming due to that type of experience (seems to be more common than expected).

It's a tough job, and we need to secure our borders! I trully believe most officers are good people trying to do their jobs... but then again, there are "bad apples" in all law enforcement agencies around the world. Unfortunately.

[toddrh 0]

He refused to answer thier questions by his own admission. I'm sure that if he had answered thier questions, he would have been on his way. But instead, he refuses to answers the questions, refuses a quick search, probably had an attitude, and wastes the time of who knows how many LEO's, that have WAY more important stuff to do. What an ass. :ninja:

He got what was coming to him, and I hope they cite him for obstruction/resisting, and fine him.

[toddrh 0]

Unfortunately there are some "bad apples" in all governmental or law enforcement agencies all over the world. It is not just a USA phenomena. I'm sure there are lots of good dedicated border patrol and custums agents around (probably the majority), but then there are those who abuse their power and like to intimidate and provoke fear. This is no excuse, and we should as a society always strive to become better.

I understand that customs and border patrol may be "overly cautious" due to the all the recent violence in Mexico. But, sometimes they intimidate the wrong good guy for no reason. My good friend from Guadalajara, Mexico came to visit me together with his pregnant wife (with valid passport and visa). As common in Mexico, he has one of those last names that are very common. When crossing the San Ysidro border station and giving his passport and visa, the officer arrested him, handcuffed him, intimidated him (was very rude), had the pregnant wife crying, and the officer explained later that he had the same name of a "dangerous criminal" so that is why he was temporarily arrested. Anyway, who knows if the officer was really not too smart, or just wanted to intimidate, but a lot of the tourists that come legaly to visit San Diego to come shop and go to Sea World, are sometimes not comming due to that type of experience (seems to be more common than expected).

It's a tough job, and we need to secure our borders! I trully believe most officers are good people trying to do their jobs... but then again, there are "bad apples" in all law enforcement agencies around the world. Unfortunately.

Good thing your friend wasn't asked for a bribe, had everything he owned taken, and was shot at........wait, that would be an American tourist visiting Baja.

I would say that considring the 150,000+ people that use the San Ysidro border crossing everyday, your friend was one of a handful people that get hassled because of a name issue. And it sounds like he was only detained, not arrested.

Also....how would you treat people if everyday you went to work, and hudreds of people LIED to you about anything and everything from immigration status, to illegal drugs/contriband they may be carrying in thier bodies, or even about drugs hidden in thier kids diaper bag/toys.

I'm sure many here would quickly become jaded and act rude occasionally.

It's also funny that you NEVER here about these stories from the US/Canadian border.......

Because up there, you don't have the kind of problems/issues with those people coming to the US.

[bikeslut 1]

answer the questions, refuse the search... i'll wait while you get a warrant, and I'd LOVE to see a judge who would sign a warrant...

A guy from work was pulled over the other day (some of you know him... Tim.... he bought crawdaddy's bike) and they did NOT give him a ticket for speeding (5 over) but asked to search his car... Most of us say, "I have nothing to hide, go ahead"... BUT... our Constitution pretty much forbids it... I guess it would depend how much time I had, and how much I wanted to push it. (He let them search... all they found was some OBNOXIOUS side panel stickers)

If they say they want to search my car, I'll say "yeah I mind".... if they say they are going to search it any way, I'll kindly get out of the car, hand them the keys, and start writing down badge numbers (or whatever)... I may get no direct satisfaction, but if everybody stood up for our rights, we'd all be a lot better off.

you don't piss off guys with guns, tazers and hammers just cuz it's your right, though...

[husky4me 0]

Unfortunately there are some "bad apples" in all governmental or law enforcement agencies all over the world. It is not just a USA phenomena. I'm sure there are lots of good dedicated border patrol and custums agents around (probably the majority), but then there are those who abuse their power and like to intimidate and provoke fear. This is no excuse, and we should as a society always strive to become better.

I understand that customs and border patrol may be "overly cautious" due to the all the recent violence in Mexico. But, sometimes they intimidate the wrong good guy for no reason. My good friend from Guadalajara, Mexico came to visit me together with his pregnant wife (with valid passport and visa). As common in Mexico, he has one of those last names that are very common. When crossing the San Ysidro border station and giving his passport and visa, the officer arrested him, handcuffed him, intimidated him (was very rude), had the pregnant wife crying, and the officer explained later that he had the same name of a "dangerous criminal" so that is why he was temporarily arrested. Anyway, who knows if the officer was really not too smart, or just wanted to intimidate, but a lot of the tourists that come legaly to visit San Diego to come shop and go to Sea World, are sometimes not comming due to that type of experience (seems to be more common than expected).

It's a tough job, and we need to secure our borders! I trully believe most officers are good people trying to do their jobs... but then again, there are "bad apples" in all law enforcement agencies around the world. Unfortunately.

Good thing your friend wasn't asked for a bribe, had everything he owned taken, and was shot at........wait, that would be an American tourist visiting Baja.

I would say that considring the 150,000+ people that use the San Ysidro border crossing everyday, your friend was one of a handful people that get hassled because of a name issue. And it sounds like he was only detained, not arrested.

Also....how would you treat people if everyday you went to work, and hudreds of people LIED to you about anything and everything from immigration status, to illegal drugs/contriband they may be carrying in thier bodies, or even about drugs hidden in thier kids diaper bag/toys.

I'm sure many here would quickly become jaded and act rude occasionally.

It's also funny that you NEVER here about these stories from the US/Canadian border.......

Because up there, you don't have the kind of problems/issues with those people coming to the US.

I know of lots of situations where US officials have been inappropriate, rude and intimidating! But then again, most are good people (as I explained aboved). There are officers in the US that have asked for brives, raped and murder people (but it is very rare). Yes, Mexico and other third world contries have much worst problems with abuse of power, and they will also steal from you...

Anyway, I myself have work with law enforcement agencies, and I am currently employed by one. It is true that lots of people lie to you, mistreat you, and you may get an attitude. But for the most part you try to be a professional. There is no excuse for intimidation and abuse of power, but then again it is human nature (can't really be avoided). But YES, we are lucky to be living in the USA!!! For the most part we have laws, and officials are helpful and professionals, with exception of some "bad apples."

So, lets not generalize!!! Just my .02 cents... By the way I know some really nice border patrol officers who ride and are active with SDAR... :ninja:

[bikeslut 1]

There is no question the drivers mentioned in the post were basically TRYING to create a confrontation... uncalled for. No doubt that the majority of LEOs are fine, upstanding people, just as the majority of border crossers are.

When I go through a checkpoint, I roll down my window, remove my sunglasses, and hide my stash... oops... Seriously; they are doing their job. I know they can make trouble for me, whether it is legal or not, so I won't provoke them... it's like picking a fight for no reason.

[dirt dame 561]

When I go through a checkpoint, I roll down my window, remove my sunglasses

Me too, and turn off the radio, and nod and wave. :ninja:

[sandiegoland 0]

Border Patrol a bit outa hand?, Or idiot driver?

Neither. This is an advocate pushing to get formally charged and have a test case brought to court. Is it Unconstitutional? Probably, but I question their motives. Is this something that would have happened to this guy in a thousand years had he just smiled and said "howdy"? Laughable.

Moreover, it's the pressure from citizens demanding border control that puts this authority in control, not some faceless big government. In the end the Constitution protects us from each other.

[bluefin2na 0]

If you have nothing to hide, then pull over and give em 20 minutes of your time and thank them for keeping US safe. Move along.

If you want to play rodney king with enforcement boots, good luck.

If you give a reason for an buttbeating, then thats what your going to get. Dont be an A-hole and everything is cool..

God Bless the law enforcement, and the US govt, you might not like everything but its better then anywhere else.

its all in how you act, plan and simple

[KIP 0]

The last video is an example of exactly what some of my coworkers have done. With one exception - one guy drove off after arguing for a while and he was pursued and detained. Another guy was pulled over in his Mercedes so frequently that he stopped co-operating. He too would roll his windows down a crack and refuse to consent to a search. Yet another was told to go to secondary on his Motorcycle! He asked the BP where they thought he was hiding an illegal alien. They really are only supposed to use internal checkpoint to find Illegal aliens. The only legal reason to search is if they suspect your car contains illegals.

Anyway most of my coworkers do not appreciate being stopped and potentially searched on our daily commute to the San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant. We are legal U.S. Citizens, we passed an FBI background check to obtain security clearance, we have random drug testing, we do not live in Mexico! I really do not have the patience to argue with them. I have been stopped and questioned. I showed them my Red Badge and tell them that I am trying to get to work. One exit up! The other problem is that they could give you an attitude adjustment - like the first video.

No they had no reason to search the Firefighters Car or they would have. I have heard of them searching the car and damaging it where nothing was found. They will not put your car back together or pay to fix it. The best thing about the BP is that they cannot issue you a citation for a moving violation - don't sweat it if you speed by a BP car.

[RogerTOWM 0]

I don’t know about the pastor but the second guy is an A hole trying to make a point. The check points are a pain in the backside but the court has said that they are legal.

Can you be forced to answer questions? Some, you do have to identify yourself and a few other things.

Can he be sited for blocking traffic? I don’t know about that. It sounds sort of weak. He is only stopped because he is being detained.

Does he need to show his driver’s license? Sounds like a state law and federal agents should not be trying to enforce state laws. They are not trained for that.

Interfering with a federal investigation? Sort of weak also, what is the investigation? I realize that it gets old being stopped. But you need to pick your fights wisely. Just answer the questions and be on your way.

The supervisor on the other end of the phone made the right call. “Just send the idiot on his way”. The guy had pissed off the agents enough that they were ready to give him a big time ass whooping if they had to pull him out. This shows you that it takes a lot of control to be an agent. After dealing with him that long, they should have been able to tell that he was just being fakename and was not a smuggler.

[Strega 0]

Just posting some interesting information, not that I agree with any or all of it....just thought someone might find it interesting.

From: http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoul...onfreezone.html

The '100 mile' border:

From: http://www.aclu.org/privacy/37293res20081022.html

The problem

• * Normally under the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the American people are not generally subject to random and arbitrary stops and searches.
  * The border, however, has always been an exception. There, the longstanding view is that the normal rules do not apply. For example the authorities do not need a warrant or probable cause to conduct a “routine search.”
  * But what is “the border”? According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around the “external boundary” of the United States.
  * As a result of this claimed authority, individuals who are far away from the border, American citizens traveling from one place in America to another, are being stopped and harassed in ways that our Constitution does not permit.
  * Border Patrol has been setting up checkpoints inland — on highways in states such as California, Texas and Arizona, and at ferry terminals in Washington State. Typically, the agents ask drivers and passengers about their citizenship. Unfortunately, our courts so far have permitted these kinds of checkpoints – legally speaking, they are “administrative” stops that are permitted only for the specific purpose of protecting the nation’s borders. They cannot become general drug-search or other law enforcement efforts.
  * However, these stops by Border Patrol agents are not remaining confined to that border security purpose. On the roads of California and elsewhere in the nation – places far removed from the actual border – agents are stopping, interrogating, and searching Americans on an everyday basis with absolutely no suspicion of wrongdoing.
  * The bottom line is that the extraordinary authorities that the government possesses at the border are spilling into regular American streets.
  

Much of U.S. population affected

• * Many Americans and Washington policymakers believe that this is a problem confined to the San Diego-Tijuana border or the dusty sands of Arizona or Texas, but these powers stretch far inland across the United States.
  * To calculate what proportion of the U.S. population is affected by these powers, the ACLU created a map and spreadsheet showing the population and population centers that lie within 100 miles of any “external boundary” of the United States.
  * The population estimates were calculated by examining the most recent US census numbers for all counties within 100 miles of these borders. Using numbers from the Population Distribution Branch of the US Census Bureau, we were able to estimate both the total number and a state-by-state population breakdown. The custom map was created with help from a map expert at World Sites Atlas.
  * What we found is that fully TWO-THIRDS of the United States’ population lives within this Constitution-free or Constitution-lite Zone. That’s 197.4 million people who live within 100 miles of the US land and coastal borders.
  * Nine of the top 10 largest metropolitan areas as determined by the 2000 census, fall within the Constitution-free Zone. (The only exception is #9, Dallas-Fort Worth.) Some states are considered to lie completely within the zone: Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.
  

Part of a broader problem

• * The spread of border-search powers inland is part of a broad expansion of border powers with the potential to affect the lives of ordinary Americans who have never left their own country.
  * It coincides with the development of numerous border technologies, including watch list and database systems such as the Automated Targeting System (ATS) traveler risk assessment program, identity and tracking systems such as electronic (RFID) passports, the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), and intrusive technological schemes such as the Secure Border Initiative Network (SBINet) or “virtual border fence” and unmanned aerial vehicles (aka “drone aircraft”).
  * This illegitimate expansion of the extraordinary powers of agents at the border is also part of a general trend we have seen over the past 8 years of an untrammeled, heedless expansion of police and national security powers without regard to the effect on innocent Americans.
  * This trend is also typical of the Bush Administration’s dragnet approach to law enforcement and national security. Instead of intelligent, competent, targeted efforts to stop terrorism, illegal immigration, and other crimes, what we have been seeing in area after area is an approach that turns us all into suspects. This approach seeks to sift through the entire U.S. population in the hopes of encountering the rare individual whom the authorities have a legitimate interest in.
  

[husky4me 0]

O.Kay, I was not responding to the actual question of this thread... It is obvious that this person is refusing on purpose to create a confrontation in order to video tape it and prove a point. All this guy had to do is say he was a U.S. citizen and be respectful; however, he wanted the confrontation or to get detained. In the manner that he was acting, any officer could have suspected he was on drugs, or had something to hide (so I kind of agree on that part with the officer). As someone mentioned earlier, there is much pressure from citizens on border control, and in order to assure safety it is necessary to check and inspect. In fact, he could have been carrying an undocumented illegal person on his trunk (some U.S. citizens engage in this type of thing as they get paid pretty hefty sums). Since we don't see in the video the part where he is being beat, it makes you wonder??? Something does not check. He shows with injuries on his face, but you just have to believe him. Now, many officers do get angry (human), they know they have the authority for the most part, and will sometimes abuse the power out of their own anger about the situation. I remember, when working in our local police dept. some years ago, I would go with officers who would basically over react (seemed like they enjoyed the adrenaline), and create a scene. Anyway, this does not seem an example of border abuse (from what I see on the video).

[KIP 0]

Unfortunately, our courts so far have permitted these kinds of checkpoints – legally speaking, they are “administrative” stops that are permitted only for the specific purpose of protecting the nation’s borders. They cannot become general drug-search or other law enforcement efforts.

The time I was stopped it was because I Drove thru the Scales while they had traffic stopped for the agents to run the drug dogs in between the cars. An agent ran over to the truck lane from the stopped line of traffic to ask me where I was going. Yes if we all agree to be searched without warrants I am sure the U.S. will be a better place

[RogerTOWM 0]

The time I was stopped it was because I Drove thru the Scales while they had traffic stopped for the agents to run the drug dogs in between the cars. An agent ran over to the truck lane from the stopped line of traffic to ask me where I was going. Yes if we all agree to be searched without warrants I am sure the U.S. will be a better place

I just said to pick your fights wisely. That is all.

[carguy 1]

I have to drive through homeland security check points every time I go to town. Yes some of the agents are a bit harsh. The problem is some smugglers are disguising vehicles as government vehicles and delivery vehicles. Most of these smugglers refuse to cooperate.

The a holes in these video make me want to tazer them.

It is simple, answer thier questions and you can go on.

[bikeslut 1]

Tim borrowed my trailer this week... 14 ft enclosed trailer with no windows... BP didn't stop him, but they had two subcompacts in secondary.

It occurred to me that I have never been asked to open my trailer, either, but did get pulled into secondary once in a coupe. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really looking for?? Especially coming from corral canyon!!! I see potential international hikers about 1 out of 3 times

[KIP 0]

Damn - now I am too old to join!

AGE REQUIREMENT – Candidates must be referred for selection before reaching their 40th birthday unless they presently serve or have previously served in a federal civilian law enforcement retirement position.

Online registrations close at midnight Eastern Standard Time on 9/30/2009.

[TrophyHunter 15]

Damn - now I am too old to join!

Odd, the Feds (who enforce EEO/Age/etc discrimination for hiring) are the only one's who get to violate it...

Local depts don't have age restrictions (last time I checked)........

[RogerTOWM 0]

Damn - now I am too old to join!

Odd, the Feds (who enforce EEO/Age/etc discrimination for hiring) are the only one's who get to violate it...

Local depts don't have age restrictions (last time I checked)........

They always exempt themselves. They, State and Feds. both have anti-age discrimination laws which apply to everyone but themselves. And yes local agencies do not have an age restriction anymore. I knew a man who was in his early sixties when he became a San Diego County Deputy Sheriff. So if that is you gig, go for it.