Anza Borrego Ranger Comments on Desert Dash Ride

[KTMrad 516]

As always, I check in or get a call from the Supervising Ranger of Anza Borrego, after the Desert Dash ride is done. We've been lucky with never any major issues, but there's always some comments from the rangers in the park.

As I mentioned at the raffle Saturday night, I saw tracks in the washes where people were cutting corners. OK, you think...so what, it's just a sandwash....well, you can see the huge difference in the washes at Ocotillo Wells OHV area and the washes in AB Park.....the ones in the park don't have tracks and berms in every corner because everyone stays in the jeep tracks, as we were supposed to and I explained in the Ride Info Flyer in everyone's packet and also at the raffle Saturday night.

I got complaints from the Rangers about cutting corners in the sandwashes....if a rider has to cut the corners and leave the jeep tracks, then they are going TOO FAST for conditions !!

Another complaint was about some people riding on the shoulders of the paved roads, which is illegal, a safety hazard, and just makes us look bad.

I wish some people would think before they do things that may not affect them right away, but their actions will affect others and our dualsport image in the long run in a negative way.

Another thing I plan on doing is having sound checks at our rides.....too many bikes have really loud pipes. The loud bikes draw too much attention to us, and also make us look bad, especially in a park like Anza Borrego, where there are many others enjoying the park.

I don't get the thing with the loud pipes....is the slight gain in power, and slight loss in weight really worth ruining it for everyone else and jeopardizing our ever shrinking riding areas and trails ?!! Other people recreating in the outdoors hate loud bikes !! And when you're riding in a canyon the loud pipes really do get annoying.

We are so lucky to have a couple hundred miles of trails to ride in Anza Borrego, so please think how your actions may affect motorcycles in the future....it sure would suck to be denied permits for events in the park, or lose the privilege of riding motorcycles in the park. This really pertains to anywhere you ride.

OK, I'm stepping down now.......

[bikeslut 1]

you're obviously right...

If we don't help "police" ourselves, we'll never improve our rep...

Glad you guys had a good ride... wish I could've been there.

[sandiegoland 0]

Randy I considered bring a sound meter (as a courtesy check only), but with the anticipated GPS activity and the potential foul weather I decided to leave it for another time. (the sensing part of the meter is somewhat fragile)

We could do a tech inspection (logistical nightmare?) and exclude someone from riding as part of the event, but then they could just get out and ride anyway. Hopefully people will come on board with the right attitude if we "advise" them that they are out of compliance and can be cited by the authorities and put the event in jeopardy.

If anyone in SDAR wants to sound check their bike maybe we can set something up at a tech-day.

[SnailDarter 0]

I've got a dB meter as well if you want to do sound checks.

At a different ride I did (the Black Dog in Oregon) there was a sound check as you were staged out. Too loud and you couldn't ride. Quiet bikes also got bonus points toward final awards. Other points were awarded along the way, e.g. Stop to help out a "rider" with a flat and you got courtesy points. Acutally have the tools and supplies and get more. They also had some skills challenges setup - like riding down smaller and smaller boards, and a timed cones course where the goal was to go the slowest with no feet down... it was amazing how many folks fell down doing that one at the end of the day (with everyone watching).

[KTMrad 516]

Craig....we wouldn't tell them they can't ride if their bike is over the db limit. We'd write down who they are and what bike they ride, and if they showed up at another event without fixing the loud pipe, then they'd be asked not to ride.

I know a guy from D37 who has a sound meter and is certified, and would be more than happy to come down if we let him know ahead of time.

[Joliet 0]

Randy I considered bring a sound meter (as a courtesy check only), but with the anticipated GPS activity and the potential foul weather I decided to leave it for another time. (the sensing part of the meter is somewhat fragile)

We could do a tech inspection (logistical nightmare?) and exclude someone from riding as part of the event, but then they could just get out and ride anyway. Hopefully people will come on board with the right attitude if we "advise" them that they are out of compliance and can be cited by the authorities and put the event in jeopardy.

If anyone in SDAR wants to sound check their bike maybe we can set something up at a tech-day.

I would be interested in finding out how loud my bike is. Is there a set standard for doing it, like x amount of feet directly behind the bike at x rpm?

[sandiegoland 0]

I've got a dB meter as well if you want to do sound checks.

At a different ride I did (the Black Dog in Oregon) there was a sound check as you were staged out. Too loud and you couldn't ride. Quiet bikes also got bonus points toward final awards. Other points were awarded along the way, e.g. Stop to help out a "rider" with a flat and you got courtesy points. Acutally have the tools and supplies and get more. They also had some skills challenges setup - like riding down smaller and smaller boards, and a timed cones course where the goal was to go the slowest with no feet down... it was amazing how many folks fell down doing that one at the end of the day (with everyone watching).

Some of those ideas might inspire a quick and dirty sign-out in the future. We could have a sign-out "chute" where they do a quick document check (license, registration reminder), sign-out, ride over a 2x6, get a quick sound check and off they go... then as a joke we could set the chute up at dinner and they have to sign-in and walk over the 2x6!

Actually, just the notice that we're doing sound checks might do the trick itself...

[PastaPilot 17]

I would be interested in finding out how loud my bike is. Is there a set standard for doing it, like x amount of feet directly behind the bike at x rpm?

There sure is! and here's the link to it.

Randy mentioned that he was thinking of sound checks to me when we pre-rode a few loops in January. I looked it all up, it's a bit more detailed a procedure than I realized. Radio Shack has a sound test meter for $40, it can't be used for inforcement but would be great to have there at the gate of the park as advisory to the load ones.

[Bagstr 288]

Gents,

Reading the test standard, I did not see a DB limit. Would that be 96db? Would the Distric 37 Std be appropriate or do we need a lower standard?

Dave

I would be interested in finding out how loud my bike is. Is there a set standard for doing it, like x amount of feet directly behind the bike at x rpm?

There sure is! and here's the link to it.

Randy mentioned that he was thinking of sound checks to me when we pre-rode a few loops in January. I looked it all up, it's a bit more detailed a procedure than I realized. Radio Shack has a sound test meter for $40, it can't be used for inforcement but would be great to have there at the gate of the park as advisory to the load ones.

[Mac250R 0]

I certainly understand the issues at hand and have done my best to abide by the guidelines presented in the handout given at the Desert Dash. However, in defense of some people riding on the shoulder of the road, it was my understanding that one rider on the Montezuma Grade was having mechanical problems and his riding buddies were escorting him near the side rails and shoulder of the road. Hopefully no one else was "joy riding" in this manner because it would definitely give us a bad reputation.

Otherwise, the ride was incredible and I hope we'll get permits to ride again next year!

[KTMrad 516]

And to those of you who like to pull wheelies all over the place, especially in front of the campground........please read the following from Kieth at D37......

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When a promoter or club pulls a permit they assume a huge liability. Before the riders get to enjoy riding that roll chart of hundreds of miles, many many hours are put in preparing the route and conferring with the land managers of that area.

As promoters or club Presidents we stand in front of the BLM, Forest Service, State Parks officer or Preserve Managers and tell them how we are stewards and guardians of our lands. We, as riders, have to be. If we aren't, it will be a simple lawsuit to keep us out of these areas with our motorized recreation.

The Rangers pre ride the routes we apply for, then do a post ride. They grant our yearly permits based on their findings. Last year I had to beg, plead and put my first born up for collattoral to get Red Rock Canyon in Nevada for LA-B2V. The previous year riders were speeding on a deserted mountain road. Nobody was cited, but warnings were given. It wasn't blatant, just a little faster than posted on a deserted mountain road. I complained that it was on a public road and I wasn't responsible. The Chief Ranger then informed me I (the permit holder, not D-37) was responsible for the actions of the riders from the start, to the finish on and off the road. That's why we freak out when a guy wheelies out of a gas station in full view of the citizens of the area we're guests in.

Riding areas are shrinking and Dualsport is the best kept secret to getting really some of the best riding areas our state has to offer. Please help up preserve our rights to ride. Follow the instructions, stay on the trail, run a quiet pipe and have fun!

==========================================================

So, there you have it. Whoever signs their name on the event permits, is responsible for all of YOUR actions, those of you riding an event.

Please think about what you do before you do it and how it will affect others !!

[paulmbowers 236]

While we may not be able to stop someone from riding because of a loud pipe, wheelies out of gas stations and other squidly behavior, they certain be stopped from riding with SDAR, hopefully earning a reputation as an organization with standards.

Yes, I'm a n00b, but...

p

[Guest crmyers]

Damn I wasn't even there due to surgery but I feel bad and will put the cap in my pipe , I hope it is in the bag I got with the bike. Thanks for making this all possible. I will see more rides now ,I got my 450x plated.

[Kevin 0]

I have a different opinion. I am all for the above concerns. What I do not agree on is the following.

What does a guy pulling a wheeling on a paved road in front of a gas station have anything to do whether or not a permit is allowed to ride off-road.

That a person is riding on the side of a paved road has any barring on wether a permit is issued or not to ride of road.

That a person was speeding on a paved road has any barring on wether a permit is issued or not to ride off road.

That the promoter, is resposible fot the individual(over 18) on or offroad is pure BS. I would like to see that prosecuted. We as adults are responsible for our own actions.

If someone is doing something illegal, than that person should be held accountable. Not the entire Dual Sport community. When someone speeds on the highway, this person is cited. They do not close the highway because of the careless actions of one individual.

The bottom line is that these types of scare tactics by the people that oversee our public lands needs to be addressed. And if they do deny permits/access for something that had no affect on the land, then a lawsuit of discrimination should be addressed for the denial of a permit.

The only thing that I see here that would legitametly affect the issue of a permit was the cutting corners in the sand wash. But, after a couple windy afternoons, this would be erased.

Please dont jump all over me. The ride promoters are doing the right things-I agree. It is time to stand tall and firm with these land stewards and let them know that they need to do there job which is manage the public lands. And tell them yes, when there is an organized event, there is more work to do-but this is there job. There attitude of governing these lands as if it was there own needs to change as this land is all of ours.

This is a forum to discuss options-not a forum to argue. I have stated some valid points as so positive agreement/disagrement are encouraged to respond.

Lets try and keep these lands open, and get the ones that have been closed re-opened.

For instance, the gates on La Posta Road and Thing Valley. These roads are closed due to the Border Patrol's request so that the smuggles cant bypass the immigration road check points. The problem with this is, the dont close the highway, the enforce it. The close our dirt roads because they can!!!. Can you imagine what would happen if the close I-8 for this same reason. As I was driving back from the Desert Dash via I-8, I noticed the Immigration check by Buckman Springs was closed, the road as wide open. Our gates on the above metioned roads were not open-Locked as usual. Does this seem appropriate to you? Call and give your opinion that these gates should be open.

Alot of you know I have been working with a potential congressman on some of these exact issues, and I will let you know if anything happens as a result.

PS-Thanks Randy for the great job on the DD-Keep up the great work as I had a great time except for get-off that cost me two blinkers!!

[KTMrad 516]

Kevin, the point of the matter is, that if a guy rides a wheelie out of a gas station or campground on an organized event, it makes us all look bad, and it is on this specific event, which will make people look down at the event.

Of course the promoter can't get cited for the actions of someone on the ride, they get their own ticket or whatever, but the promoter does get to hear the negative input or take the flack from the rangers and community.

Fact of the matter is, whenever someone does something stupid, especially on an ORGANIZED event, it affects us all in the future.

Kevin, you state cutting corners in a sandwash, the tracks will be gone after some heavy winds....fact is, the Head Ranger asked that WE DO NOT CUT CORNERS, and people were asked on the Ride Info Sheet not to cut corners, and they did it anyway. Doesn't matter what's right or wrong here, if we are asked not to do things by the land agencies, and we do them anyway......it will jeopardize being able to get permits again.

So Kevin, you got the time to go stand tall and confront the land agencies about your comments or concerns ?

[SCHWINN 0]

I didnt do the wheelie in front of the gas station but I did in front of the campground,Gosh I hope nobody drank alcohol and rode or went faster than 25 mph were posted.Oh yea dont forget to wear your seatbelt while driving and dont speed...Shame on you.

[Brett 0]

The point is to be careful about what we're doing that others see and develop opinions about. If we step out of our boots and be objective, I think we all know the general public doesn't understand us and likely has some pre-conceived negative ideas about motorcycles "trampling the countryside". We can choose to either bolster those opinions or try to look respectable. I would say doing wheelies on public roads would not be considered "respectable" by most onlookers.

So when we're out on the dirt and not directly in the public eye, we all know what we do having a good time - that's what it's all about. But since we always seem to be fighting a losing battle concerning land use, I'd suggest we not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Kevin, I agree with much of what you said. It is perhaps much closer to the way things "should" be rather than the way things "are". You mentioned La Posta and Thing Valley. Should they be closed? No. Are they? Yes. So this issue is not that cut-and-dried.

Some of our actions may have a direct bearing on getting permits, and some may just have a direct bearing on what the public thinks of us. I'm pretty sure we all agree that we don't need any more bad press than we're already getting.

[KTMrad 516]

Brett, I couldn't have said it better myself.

It's not about preaching to you all about what not to do, it's about you all thinking about what you do & how it impacts our image as motorcyclists. This is ESPECIALLY true when it's a big, organized event.

Thanks to all for your input.

[KTMrad 516]

Hey all, the original post was meant to be informative and constructive, maybe enlighten a few people. It was not meant to put a negative twist on the ride......if it did, sorry !!

Want to thank all the riders for participating, because it's YOU, the riders who make this a successful event.

Thanks Again !!

[Bigtime1 0]

Ok, yes, total new guy here. But I happen to be deeply involved in MC safety and land use and have to jump in this discussion.

Loud pipes are going to do more to destroy recreational opportunities than just about any other aspect of the sport. Basically if you are running anything other than the stock pipe or something less than 96dB your pipe is not legit for public lands. I didn't participate in the DD but I know some of the AB route and it will all be off limits to future MC use, DS or not, if squidly behavior persists.

How do government agencies deal with hassles? They ban them. They just don't have the resources or the patience to put up with a bunch of crap from a small number of land users. If you think about most Ranger-types you've met how many got into their job because they love OHV recreation vs. the number who are granola/Sierra Club/lock-it-up conservationists?? (Nothing against granola, love it personally). You can rattle your sabres about lawsuits and paid for public lands and what it says on the map, but when was the last time you saw an area opened back up after a problematic shutdown? Hmm...?

I've been through the bad old days of Cranston & Feinstein and S7, S11, S21. I've seen huge tracts of land get fenced off from legitimate OHV recreation. Dual sporting is a great way to enjoy areas you otherwise will only see in the seat of an Embrair on approach to Palomar Airport.

So please, make your bike as quiet as you can. Truth be told, only about 1% of the riders out there can use all of the power their bike puts out (TW200 riders exempted from that remark). Realistically, how many times do you have the throttle at the stop, pinned and begging for more power (that 3 or 4 horsepower) that an aftermarket pipe will give? Put that $350 into suspension, a damper, some new tires - all will benefit you more than a loud pipe.

My bike? Stock pipe all the way. When I whisper up the dirt roads off DeLuz the people in their front yards don't even look up. Just the way I like it.

Something to consider for the next DD. Simply put on the flyer/entry form that there will be a sound check and that 96Db will be strictly enforced. That will weed out most of the potential problems right there. Actually running a sound check will take care of the rest. Most dual sport types I've met are extremely reasonable and will understand the need to tread lightly.

[Kevin 0]

,Gosh I hope nobody drank alcohol and rode or went faster than 25 mph were posted

You know I didn't.

[Kiethco 0]

Hi guys,

I saw the thread and thought I'd add a little input based on my experience. For the past 2 years I've been the ride coordinator for the LA-B2V Dualsport ride up here in D-37.

A few of the points brought up by Kevin(hi Kev!) are based on common sense and reasonable thought. The problem is we are dealing with unreasonable people that have way more time and money than we do as conservators and stewards of our public lands.

The cutting the corner issue is very important because it could be used to show we didn't stay on the course or existing trail. If we cut the course and run over a plant, just one, this could be used against us in a lawsuit. Actually, they sue the BLM because they didn't exercise authority to keep us out of the wilderness area. It happens. On several of our rides we've had work parties go out the weeks after the ride and repair tracks, restore corners and even place monuments to mark trails. You can see the monuments in Kingston Wash.

When we're issued a permit we bring the element to the area. If not for our actions, the riders wouldn't be there riding. That's the logic applied when the permit is being reviewed. Last year people were slightly over the speed limit on Lovell Canyon road. I'm talking 45 in a 35. You would have thought we were having human sacrifices out there. The Ranger wanted to issue me a ticket 7 months after the event, then deny me the permit for last years ride. I thought I was in the Twilight Zone. He told me we're responsible as long as the people are following our rollchart. What if some guy takes a detour and robs a bank? So, I promised to get everyone to behave and put in writing my plan to follow the traffic laws.

The other point about court and being charged. Jerry Counts went down that road and he can't get a permit to take a crap now. You see how he has to run his rides now.

When I go to get my permits I have a great reputation that I inherited from Dave Tonkiss, Jim Pilon, Jim Nicholson and Paul Flanders. These are the previous planners and current D-37 Officers. I'm constantly reaping the benefit of a cooperative working relationship, not an adversarial one. People don't want us out there, period. We can't give them ammo to use against us. Little things add up. Dualsport is going to be more popular as riding areas close down and we must protect our rights to ride. Most of the closures are possible because somelawyer gets up in front of a jury or city council and shows examples of the infractions we've been talking about.

I'm sorry to be a little long winded but I put a lot of time in on these issues and they're real. I'm not the only one and we need more of you to get involved. If you don't have the time, that's ok too. Just kick in a few bucks now and then and join the AMA, Blue Ribbon Coalition and/or your local grassroots organization. Like SDOR. Thanks for a great ride this year, people are raving about it.

[KTMrad 516]

Hi Kieth, thanks for joining our site......and we appreciate your input !!

Hope you can make one of our future DD's. You made the first one and brought a bunch of D37 folks with you, helping make the first trial run a success.

[paulmbowers 236]

What if some guy takes a detour and robs a bank?

Hmmm. There's an idea! Muah ha ha ha.

p

[RICKF 0]

Randy,

Great event as usual.

While I agree with and understand your position on the behavior of a few, I am tired of the tax-payer funded 'Rangers' whining about us using OUR public lands. I dare say we will never hear one of them say "You guys where just fine, thanks for coming and please come again."

Yes, we shouldn't abuse our lands but I am completely convinced we will never satisfy them as long as we continue to ride.

Also, I rather doubt we have more impact on the sand washes than a 100 vehicle convoy of Jeeps dripping fluids out of every orifice; we're certainly not there nearly as long!

Thanks again for your hard work!

Rick Felden