Realizing the unimaginable....

[dirt dame 559]

I've had a lot of downtime to think about this....

When we trail ride, dual sport or hit the pavement with our friends instead of alone, it's always a good thing. If not for just the company, at least for the safety of it. For anybody who has been injured out on the trail or road, and had your riding partners there for a quick response, or any one of us that have come to the aid of a fellow downed rider before, probably not much thought is given to the scenario of a crash. We automatically assume that our riding buddies will have our back in any situation.

Some people have first aid training which is always a plus. A lot of people don't, but have common sense that will guide them through their decision making process when a fellow rider goes down. I personally am pretty squeamish about injuries, but luckily I have a mechanism called empathy that kicks in, and so far has taken over whenever I have witnessed a crash where the rider needs assistance. With empathy, we can rush in and help, because we can put ourselves in the downed rider's position, and we would have an idea of how we would want to be treated in that same position, when we are on the ground, injured, feeling helpless and in pain.

But what if....

What if you were riding with somebody that you had ridden with for a few years, at least 3 or 4 times a year....and all of a sudden, that moment of truth came up where you crashed your brains out, and your riding partner froze up....yes, you crashed, you realized that you had more than just minor injuries, you told your riding partner that you were not okay, and they didn't run over to you, check you out, kill the engine on your still running machine, shut off the fuel, secure the bike in a safe, upright position and then sit down with you and ask you those important questions like Where does it hurt, Does your head hurt, What day is it, Do you you know who I am, etc.

We know that sometimes, even somebody who says that they are okay (you know, the tough guys that don't want to admit that they got hurt, or the guy who doesn't want to worry his friends or be a burden on them), they actually aren't, and a little while later after the shock wears off they realize that they are in much worse shape than they originally thought they were. Sometimes people can end up with spinal injuries and walk around for up to a week before some small action causes them to collapse because they didn't know that they broke their neck. So it is very important to get as accurate information as you can out of somebody down. And if somebody who has crashed tells you that they are not okay, you can bet your life that they are telling the truth. Somebody needs to be there on the side of that rider at the time of the crash, and beyond that if necessary. A followup call that evening and the next day, or if you don't live far away, even a visit is always a good idea if you know somebody lives alone.

This kind of stuff that I mentioned in the last two paragraphs is pretty simple common sense action, and you would think that every experienced adult motorcycle rider, especially an off road rider would be easily capable of....but you would be surprised and very frightened if you ever found yourself on the ground with your bell rung and some broken stuff, and your riding partner had not one effing idea of what to do for you. You would suddenly find the exercise of going through the checklist of questions and actions on your own shoulders, and you would have to make all the judgement calls yourself, even if you may not be in the best shape to do that, because in reality, there is no one else there to do it. You will never feel more ALONE than when you are down with another person who is paralyzed and displaced standing ten feet away.

Imagine this scenario if you were injured even worse and couldn't get out under your own power. The image of that gets even more frightening, eh? Probably...at least hopefully the riding partner would eventually make some sort of decisions that would be logical enough to help you. But it makes me wonder....

And one of the things that I would be wondering would be if it was worth it to ride with a person like this again. Does it seem so wrong to be doubtful about somebody, when your life is in their hands? Are you ready? Are your riding partners ready? Just sayin'

[bikeslut 1]

The more I am "out there" (away from home, phone reception, and good medical care), the more carefully I consider my riding partners

[paulmbowers 236]

One of my first considerations when choosing riding partners is:

What would it be like to be incapacitated and have to rely on [nameperson]?

If I'm uncomfortable with that question, I don't ride with them.

Most riders here on SDAR are great folks, and I value this site because of it.

[bikeslut 1]

One good reason to ride with Vic: if he can't fix it, ride it out, or give you first aid...he can kill me quickly and stop my suffering

[paulmbowers 236]

One good reason to ride with Vic: if he can't fix it, ride it out, or give you first aid...he can kill me quickly and stop my suffering

And we encourage you to ride with Vic often.

[Czechsix 1]

Good points DD. Red Cross FA training, at the very least, is cheap insurance, and fast to do. I seem to go every few years, licenses lapse, but the general practices don't change that much. I probably should have kept my instructor certs current...maybe I'll re-up.

IAC...yeah. Something to think about. In addition to carrying a more conprehensive first aid kit...something better than a couple of bandages and a pint of bourbon.

[TrophyHunter 15]

Previously expounded on by PMB from a while back - don't rush to "fix" something, either. "just pop it back in" comes to mind when it really ended up being a broken/shattered arm/shoulder.

Mimi - you are right on point with this......& I'll toss in completely unequipped to fix the most minor repair on their bike (flats, etc).

Back to medical. Fortunately or not, some of us have seen tons of traumatic injury and are familiar with treating stuff until the pros arrive. I was pretty impressed with 5 hours of training I received in http://www.naemt.org/education/TCCC/guidelines_curriculum.aspx this week and will be ordering a trauma specific kit for my bike. I have a basic 1st aid kit I carry but will add the trauma kit to it.

As you mentioned, Mimi, your basic empathy takes over. Some people just freeze up and are incapable of assisting in any way. It's an automatic reaction and unless they train themselves out of it, they'll still be standing there next time, too.

Maybe it's time for another Motorcycle Medical class?

[dirt dame 559]

What would it be like to be incapacitated and have to rely on [nameperson]?

It never would have crossed my my mind, for this individual.

[dirt dame 559]

As you mentioned, Mimi, your basic empathy takes over. Some people just freeze up and are incapable of assisting in any way. It's an automatic reaction and unless they train themselves out of it, they'll still be standing there next time, too.

Exactly. Hate to say that I can't trust riding with somebody like this again, and worry about others who might ride with them too.

[Bagstr 287]

Whoa Mimi,,,you called that!

Once you get "Beyond Starbucks" or Pete's for that matter, You better trust your buddies or else.

Our Crew has been Out There, and it is funny how easy it is to accept the challenge when you know in you bones

that you can utterly trust your pals to face Anything.

Well almost,, bad cooking and poor camp hygiene can drive you nuts.

[paulmbowers 236]

Bad cooking?

Really?

[paulmbowers 236]

What would it be like to be incapacitated and have to rely on [nameperson]?

It never would have crossed my my mind, for this individual.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

I don't (and don't want to) know who let you down, but remember, not everybody reacts well to certain stresses nor makes 100% good judgments everytime. I know some great people with great charachter and conscience who would not make very good rescuers. It does not mean they are not good people, but just not wired that way.

[ADV Bum 205]

I have taken the first responders coarse that was given and enjoyed it. It was not what I was expecting, as I thought it would be more detailed. In reality there is only so much you can do in the field. The most important is to be able to assess how much trouble the down person is in and be able to react accordingly. People dont like to do it, but carrying first aid(good first aid) supplies can really make a difference in just helping a wounded person or extending the time you have to get them help before things can get worse.

It would be nice to have a class on trauma (like the marines first aid) and how to treat it and with what supplies.

[bikeslut 1]

I agree with Paul(gasp)

Your best friend in the whole world might be the LAST person you want to be with in a crisis

We're all wired differently..

It's not just knowledge, and caring, and intelligence.

I pulled up to a huge accident on my bike a couple of years ago...I don't usually stop

15 people standing around, bitching, when I noticed somebody was still in the upside-down car...trying to get out. I forced the door open, and got the couple to a safe location, and asked if anybody else was in the car..."yes...my baby"...she LEFT her baby in the car...upside down...month old...

I ran back and pulled the baby out, and a nurse had come along, and started assessing people for injuries and shock. We each did "our thing"...i'm the idiot that says "get on your bike, let's go"

[HVYWT 3]

DD. You made me think (yea it hurt a little), because never even thought of that side. This year I was the one that meet some one for the first time to ride with . Knowing very little about each other we rode most of the day stopped for lunch talked some and rode more. I fell and was hurt putting this guy I meet in that place of having to react.

Thank God it was Kris aka FuzzzyNugs.

There I lay on the ground with my 400 lb bike in deep sand 12 + miles from are trucks. He asked me if I was ok and I said not really. Again we have talked maybe two hours total and meet that day. But just by the way he reacted when he saw me laying there regrouping I knew I could ask him for help.

He picked up my bike and said "see ya" just kidding, no really he put my bike on some hard surface so I could get going and away we went. When we got back to the trucks he loaded my bike, which I wish I could of recorded, because every thing that could be in the way was. The poor guy had to work his tail off to get it loaded.

So I was really lucky for it to be Kris with his ability to handle what I put him threw. Thanks again Kris. AKA Fuzzynugs.........

[Guest Crusty]

I was tested in 2005.http://dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1551-i-try-not-to-leave-anyone-behind/

It was worse then, risking my own life to save another.

[Oracle 195]

One thing I highly recommend everyone carrying is a tourniquet. If you don't have one, think about things you can use as one: an inner tube, a belt, shoe laces, etc.... My friends life was saved when we applied a tourniquet to a very severe injury he suffered deep in Mexico many years ago. I carry a trauma pack with a tourniquet and hemostatic gauze (among other things). Most injuries wont kill you and help will arrive at some time to get you out of there, however, if you can't stop the bleeding, you could ended up dying on the spot...even on our local trails.

[bikeslut 1]

One thing I highly recommend everyone carrying is a tourniquet. If you don't have one, think about things you can use as one: an inner tube, a belt, shoe laces, etc.... My friends life was saved when we applied a tourniquet to a very severe injury he suffered deep in Mexico many years ago. I carry a trauma pack with a tourniquet and hemostatic gauze (among other things). Most injuries wont kill you and help will arrive at some time to get you out of there, however, if you can't stop the bleeding, you could ended up dying on the spot...even on our local trails.

I would be very hesitant to use a tourniquet... not saying you're not correct, I just don't know enough to use it wisely.

I would THINK I would recognize a wound severe enough to require one, but no guarantees.

I had a girl fall in front of me at work, and she split her head open pretty good... I applied direct pressure until help could arrive, but decided NOT to apply a tourniguet

[TrophyHunter 15]

One thing I highly recommend everyone carrying is a tourniquet. If you don't have one, think about things you can use as one: an inner tube, a belt, shoe laces, etc.... My friends life was saved when we applied a tourniquet to a very severe injury he suffered deep in Mexico many years ago. I carry a trauma pack with a tourniquet and hemostatic gauze (among other things). Most injuries wont kill you and help will arrive at some time to get you out of there, however, if you can't stop the bleeding, you could ended up dying on the spot...even on our local trails.

After my training this week, agreed. The kit I'm ordering will have 2 T's and hemostatic gauze in addition to a few other things like HALO sucking chest wound fixers. As BS mentioned, there is a method to applying a T and the one's we practiced with you can apply to yourself in 20 seconds or less.

People standing around: Coming home I saw a group standing around a woman down in the roadway. Compound fracture to the lower leg, etc. "did anyone call 911?" ...."we called her husband" "Well, unless he's a doctor driving and ambulance....." Nevermind.

Good call on the no tourniquet from the neck up, Bob.

[HVYWT 3]

one stop first aide kit

Patch holes, splint breaks, tight enough a tourniquet, and you can fix your bike.

[Bubbagums 42]

First it was that "fake" guy with the splint thingy (on order) and now it sucking wound kits? I am afraid to sign on. We didn't talk about those thing in boy scouts. Splints were made out of young saplings and wounds were fixed with direct pressure. Snake bites? We had sucking bite kits...but sucking wound kits? Dang.

Last emergency I came upon was my brother in law. He was off his bike, bike was on kick stand...hm... He was extremely frantic, yelling "I got to pee, I GOT TO PEE". He was ripping his clothes off like mad. Starting with his shirt...Uh, this looked weird. I was watching helpless not knowing what to do (never had first aid training for emergency peeing).

Then it hit home...he was saying "I got a bee" and sure enough he somehow managed to trap a bee in his shirt and get stung and have it crawling around stuck in his shirt. I thought it was funny.

[TrophyHunter 15]

It was worse then, risking my own life to save another.

Ya mean like some here - and not here cuz they're deployed - do all the time?

[HVYWT 3]

It was worse then, risking my own life to save another.

Ya mean like some here - and not here cuz they're deployed - do all the time?

You mean those people that make it so I can chose what ever want to do and have more stuff then I can every use, because of them we live in the best place in the world.

Thank You .

[Oracle 195]

One thing I highly recommend everyone carrying is a tourniquet. If you don't have one, think about things you can use as one: an inner tube, a belt, shoe laces, etc.... My friends life was saved when we applied a tourniquet to a very severe injury he suffered deep in Mexico many years ago. I carry a trauma pack with a tourniquet and hemostatic gauze (among other things). Most injuries wont kill you and help will arrive at some time to get you out of there, however, if you can't stop the bleeding, you could ended up dying on the spot...even on our local trails.

I would be very hesitant to use a tourniquet... not saying you're not correct, I just don't know enough to use it wisely.

I would THINK I would recognize a wound severe enough to require one, but no guarantees.

I had a girl fall in front of me at work, and she split her head open pretty good... I applied direct pressure until help could arrive, but decided NOT to apply a tourniguet

:heh:/>/>

Good choice not to use a tourniquet on a head wound... :heh:/>/>

In all seriousness, most people with common sense will know when it's time to apply a tourniquet...a severed limb, a puncture wound to a artery (compound fractures can cause this), etc. You'll know because blood will be pumping out with each beat of the heart. I work in law enforcement and carry a trauma pack on my person every day and have learned how to apply a tourniquet to myself with one arm...it's not hard and it might just save my life one day. By posting here, I hope others will take this serious and learn from it...

[WARP9 0]

Would be cool to talk about, and have some, first aid and trauma demonstrations at our next meeting ;)/>

Bubbagums, that was funny...:heh:/>