What is this from Honda? Sure throws lots of roost!

[Guest Crusty]

[kkug 147]

Smoker Twin with a snowmobile clutch. They need to come up with something new to prevent KTM from taking over !

[PastaPilot 17]

"What is this from Honda?"

A video from the swingarm of the new CRF250R and then played for you at a higher speed so that it sounds menacing and looks wicked fast. I mean seriously, it's from Honda. If you think it's going to be anything other than a new CRF (like the one we saw from the Japanese nationals) you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Guest Crusty]

They need to come up with something new to prevent KTM from taking over !

That is

In its report, Honda forecasts making 16.6 million units for its 2012 fiscal year, which is 1.5 million more units than the company sold last year

I was surprised of how few bikes BMW. and KTM. sold in 2012 so I added tis link.

http://www.cycleworl...buys-husqvarna/

BMW and KTM each sold around 100,000 motorcycles in 2012, while Husqvarna moved almost 11,000 units.

[PastaPilot 17]

You laugh, but this past weekend I spent in the mountains there must've been 50 bikes at the camp. I only saw a handful of Hondas (all but 1 CR500 were air cooled XRs), Suzukis and Kawasakis, more Yamahas than the other three combined and 3x-4x more KTMs than all the Jap brands combined.

Just 10 years ago it was that much Honda red at any staging area. Now it's KTM orange. I don't own one but I think they're doing something right and if Honda doesn't come up with something new, well it might already be too late.

[SCHWINN 0]

What else would you post about other than Honda Cheerleading or KTM Recalls

[Guest Crusty]

What else would you post about other than Honda Cheerleading or KTM Recalls

Should I post pics of my relatives collection of hot Rods,or my friends cars, on a moto site??

[bikeslut 1]

Yes- honda sells a lot more units

Yes- honda has a lot of resources to push their brand

Truth be told, I like hondas MORE than most people, but face it...the days of honda LEADING development in dual sports is over- I had a VTR 1000- great bike, but I also know what it was; a poor man's Ducati

Nc700- poor man's tiger

XRL- old technology lacking any passion or groundbreaking ideas

CRFL- cute little 1/4 litre dual sport, not meant for real dirt

And years after the Yamaha WR250R

If that video is a twin, here is what it'll be: a poor man's aprilia

If it is a dual sport- a poor man's KTM

And- they'll sell a ton of them

As for reading about schwinn's ACTUAL life vs spouting off some red propaganda, I'll have woody's

I remember recently a KTM video that was mocked as "you could do that on any bike"...well; THIS video COULD have been any bike with an aluminum swingarm a knobby and a disc brake...

I hope it is something truly groundbreaking that slaps the europeans silly

[dirt dame 561]

Unfortunately almost all of the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers have nothing that I want to ride. There are no serious dualsport bikes (the kind that you can ride with very little modification in an enduro or cross country event), no two stroke race or trail bikes (except for Yamaha). If you like four stroke MX bikes or heavy street legal trail bikes, then Japanese bikes are the ride for you. The Euros rule at making enthusiast bikes for people who enjoy serious trailbikes and two stroke machinery.

[SCHWINN 0]

Should I post pics of my relatives collection of hot Rods,or my friends cars, on a moto site??

YES...You should on our site we have a forum for that ...

A Forum for GENERAL PHOTOS & Videos

Post photos of ?? and videos. Go ahead, start a new photo topic that's not already started in other categories.

On another note...It was fun running into you and Christine in Oside Thusday night street fair when I was with my Wife Lori...

I bet some peeps don't know we get along fine in person. :crazy:/>

[ADV Bum 205]

Nc700- poor man's tiger

If that video is a twin, here is what it'll be: a poor man's aprilia

If it is a dual sport- a poor man's KTM

I dont think anyone is POOR just because they choose something other than what is PERCEIVED to be the latest and greatest and most expensive. I dont care what people have that I ride with. We are there to share and adventure and passion for riding. What ever happened to ride what you have? This constant conversation of who's best and what you must ride is FN lame.

[bikeslut 1]

I typed out a long post, but deleted it... the people that get it, get it, and the people that don't probably never will

[SDlineman 0]

I don't really care what bike you ride either, I'll do my best to make fun of it. I really enjoy Crusty's brand loyalty, his ribbing of anything orange, and the reaction he gets from everybody. I check out the board way more often for this stuff than I do for seeing who's going riding and who's got pictures of where they have been riding. Not sure if that means I "get it" or not though.

[Guest Crusty]

I don't really care what bike you ride either, I'll do my best to make fun of it. I really enjoy Crusty's brand loyalty, his ribbing of anything orange, and the reaction he gets from everybody. I check out the board way more often for this stuff than I do for seeing who's going riding and who's got pictures of where they have been riding. Not sure if that means I "get it" or not though.

Thank's hope to see you at the track soon.

Craig.

[Guest Crusty]

Nc700- poor man's tiger

If that video is a twin, here is what it'll be: a poor man's aprilia

If it is a dual sport- a poor man's KTM

I dont think anyone is POOR just because they choose something other than what is PERCEIVED to be the latest and greatest and most expensive. I dont care what people have that I ride with. We are there to share and adventure and passion for riding. What ever happened to ride what you have? This constant conversation of who's best and what you must ride is FN lame.

X 5252637536378277289290110

When my wife became an R.N. she wanted a Mercedes, like all the other R.N.'s

I talked her into a Kia Sportage.

Is it the POOR R.N's Mercedes?

She is a charge nurse!

One time at McKane Valley some SDAR guys were giving us looks,

when we pulled up in my P.T Cruser???

I was with Terry, we both too

This is his company.http://www.pacificlift.com/

[Guest Crusty]

This thread now back on topic

Honda EXP-2

The Return of Two Strokes?

By Ely Kumli, Contributing Writer, Apr. 23, 2003

Get ready for a serious comeback of two-strokes in the near future with engines that can compete with four-strokes head-to-head in emission cleanliness, fuel economy, and ride-ability, all the while retaining power, size, and weight advantages over four-strokes. Off-road and motorcross riders have long enjoyed the benefits of two-strokes, which have evolved into highly reliable motors. For you (American) street riders out there, two-strokes have been a thing of the past, banned in the U.S. for their unclean emissions since 1985 (100cc and over).Just when two-stroke fans had given up and bought old, clapped-out two-stroke street bikes, Honda is now poised to bring them back.

Dusk in the desert.

Big Red has designed and built a race-winning two-stroke prototype that has emissions comparable to a four-stroke. Named the EXP-2, this bike has demonstrated the possibility of a rebirth of the two-stroke engine as an environmentally friendly machine. Two-strokes have several advantages over their four-stroke counterparts: For a given engine displacement, a two-stroke is lighter, smaller, produces more power, and has fewer moving parts. This makes it less expensive to manufacture -- especially since the motors can be fitted to smaller, lighter chassis -- more reliable, and easier to maintain than a four-stroke.

Two-strokes have their disadvantages as well -- they produce more harmful carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions than four-strokes, putting them outside the realm of on-road emissions laws in America, and outside future requirements of other countries. In many developing countries with less restrictive or non-existent emissions laws, two-strokes are the motor of choice for the majority of motorcycles. In fact, they are so widely used that Honda estimates two- and four-stroke engines are built in equal quantities worldwide. The applications for current two-strokes are vast, but a future of environmentally friendly emission laws puts current two-stroke technology in jeopardy.

The curved yellow valve rotates on a pivot to open and close the exhaust port; it is shown in the closed position.

Two-strokes have their disadvantages as well -- they produce more harmful carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions than four-strokes, putting them outside the realm of on-road emissions laws in America...

The causes of high emissions of two-stroke engines are relatively simple, and are attributable to the basic way a two-stroke operates. There are two main factors which cause poor emissions: Incomplete combustion of fuel at low engine RPM, and expulsion of unburnt fuel out with the exhaust at high engine RPM, with both problems compounded by the fact that oil is injected into the motor to lubricate the crankshaft, and is then burnt off in combustion. The EXP-2 was designed to solve the first of these problems which occurs because, during the two-stroke cycle, fuel enters the cylinder through the intake port in the side of the cylinder, and pushes spent gases out of the exhaust port in the opposite cylinder wall at the same time. In doing this, the fuel and exhaust mix somewhat, causing some exhaust to remain in the cylinder with the incoming fuel.

World sales figures

When the spark plug fires and ignites the fuel mixture, some of the fuel is isolated from the resulting flame by the exhaust still in the cylinder, and does not burn. What Honda has done is to develop a way to ignite all the fuel in the cylinder by using the properties of auto-ignition, and has termed this process Activated Radical Combustion. This title is derived from the way fuel actually ignites. When the fuel is brought to the right pressure and temperature, the molecules break down into what are known as active radical molecules. These are highly unstable chemical compounds which are an intermediate step in the actual combustion reaction. When hot exhaust gas remains in the cylinder, it contains a small percentage of active radical molecules; when these are combined with the incoming fuel charge, the resulting mixture begins to auto-ignite at lower temperature that a pure gasoline/air mixture. What we currently associate with auto-ignition is engine knock, a phenomenon that occurs when the fuel ignites before the spark plug fires, while the piston is still on the up-stroke.Cut-away diagram of the exhaust valve

There are two main factors which cause poor emissions: Incomplete combustion of fuel at low engine RPM, and expulsion of unburnt fuel out with the exhaust at high engine RPM

Cut-away diagram of EP2 Motor

In the EXP-2, Honda has developed an exhaust port valve which raises and lowers the top of the exhaust port, thereby decreasing and increasing the fuel mixture pressure in the cylinder as needed. This valve is similar in shape to a power valve, but larger, and is shown in detail in these two cut-away diagrams. By setting the valve position based on engine RPM and throttle position, the pressure required for auto-ignition can be achieved at exactly the right timing, causing all of the fuel in the cylinder to burn completely. This process has the added benefit of increasing low RPM power and throttle response, a current problem area with two-strokes. The steps of this process can be seen in the three part diagram below.Honda EXP-2 combustion process

1. Fresh fuel (white) enters the combustion chamber, pushing the exhaust (grey) out the open exhaust valve on the opposite side of the cylinder.

2. The incoming fuel mixes with the exhaust, and some pockets of fuel are isolated within the exhaust. The exhaust valve closes and the compression of the mixture is increased as the piston travels upward.

3. The fuel/exhaust mixture is compressed and auto-ignites as the piston reaches the top of its stroke. This burns all of the fuel, and reduces the emission of unburnt hydrocarbons into the environment.

By eliminating misfiring, the motor actually burns much more of the fuel that it consumes.

At small throttle openings, a conventional two-stroke will start a repeating pattern of misfiring, which allows a large amount of unburnt gas and oil to be expelled directly into the atmosphere. At these low engine speeds, the amount of fuel entering the combustion chamber is small compared to the amount of exhaust remaining, which creates a mixture that is not ignited by the spark, and is expelled directly into the exhaust system. Each time this misfire occurs, the amount of fuel remaining in the cylinder increases, until it is great enough to be ignited by the spark. When it is ignited, the cylinder is again filled with exhaust and the cycle repeats itself.

By measuring cylinder pressure over time, this cycle can be seen as a pattern of regular large increases in pressure. The increases in pressure mark the points where the mixture burns; between these pressure peaks is the area where all of the fuel and oil are going out the pipe without burning, which is a major source of emissions and exhaust system contamination.

As can be seen from the graph below, this cycle occurs at low and medium loads during conventional two-stroke combustion.

Plot of cylinder pressure vs. time for conventional two-stroke at light and slightly reduced loads. The vertical peaks are firing cycles, and the area between peaks are misfires.

<br clear="all">By igniting the entire mixture without the use of a spark, the EXP-2 is able to burn all of the fuel and oil in the cylinder in every cycle, eliminating the misfiring cycle described above. By eliminating misfiring, the motor actually burns much more of the fuel that it consumes; this reduces the amount of unburned fuel and oil released into the atmosphere, which greatly decreases hydrocarbon emissions. The graph of cylinder pressure below illustrates the resulting constant pressure, which indicates that the fuel is burning on each cycle.

Plot of cylinder pressure vs. time for EXP-2 two-stroke at light load. The smoothness of the graph indicates continuous regular combustion with no misfiring.

<br clear="all">

Honda's riding team of Chuck Miller, Paul Ostbo and Greg Bringle finished 7th overall and first in class in the Baja 1000.

As a test for this technology, Honda built a 400cc single-cylinder bike for off-road and desert endurance racing. The 400cc single design was chosen because it has a large combustion chamber and a high piston speed, making for difficult burn characteristics; if the EXP-2 system works for this configuration, it will work for smaller piston engines. Fuel injection was also used for ease of setup and fuel measurement, although the system was designed to work with carbureted systems as well. The race results were very good even though the bike was not designed to win races, but to test new technology.

What all this boils down to is that the EXP-2 has about the same real-world performance as the 780, but with substantially better fuel economy and lower emissions.

When the dust settled, the EXP-2 had earned 5th overall and 1st in both the under 500cc and Experimental classes at the Granda-Dakar rally; 1st in the two-stroke class and 8th overall in the Nevada Rally last year, and 7th overall motorcycle at the Baja 1000.

Compared to Honda's current NXR780 four-stroke twin rally race bike, the EXP-2 has very siCheck out a riding impression by our tech editor

milar performance with several advantages. While the single cylinder EXP-2 produces 54hp to the big NXR's 71, they both make 58 lb-ft of torque, but the EXP-2 is 118 pounds lighter, giving it a slightly better power-to-weight ratio. What all this boils down to is that the EXP-2 has about the same real-world performance as the 780, but with substantially better fuel economy and lower emissions. By increasing the mileage of the bike, it can be raced carrying less fuel, which improves handling and decreases rider fatigue. The problem of unburnt fuel escaping with the exhaust has yet to be solved, but for all you two-stroke die-hards out there: stay tuned, this is the start of something we have all been waiting for.

[PastaPilot 17]

So did Honda do something industry leading and inspiring or should we dust off our old clapped out two-strokes!

What was the big secret from Honda?

[bikeslut 1]

So did Honda do something industry leading and inspiring or should we dust off our old clapped out two-strokes!

What was the big secret from Honda?

obviously they unveiled a 2 stroke plated dual sport bike

[Afry 1]

So did Honda do something industry leading and inspiring or should we dust off our old clapped out two-strokes!

Not quite....Bombardier has been making bad ass smokers since 2003 but focused on the marine market.

"In 2003, after Bombardier acquired the Evinrude and Johnson Outboards brands, the questionable FICHT technology was replaced by E-TEC direct injection. This improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions, oil usage, noise levels, and maintenance needs. This is due in part by a pin point oiling system which only applies oil to the necessary components, unlike the original two stroke motors. Evinrude E-TEC was the first outboard engine technology to win the AmericanEnvironmental Protection Agency 2004 Clean Air Excellence Award, which recognizes low emission levels."

"and they soon switched over to a more modern high pressure direct injection system combined with an engine control unit (ECU). They have branded this system as "E-TEC"

They run an oil mixture that averages around 200:1 and are very reliable and long lasting motors with great MPG - only wish they had licensed it out to bike manufacturers years ago.

This updated Honda smoker looks more complicated with moving parts that will may need more maintenance with exhaust gasses gumming it up then the high pressure direct injection on the E-TEC.

[ADV Bum 205]

So did Honda do something industry leading and inspiring or should we dust off our old clapped out two-strokes!

Nothing inspiring. Just as non inspiring as the KTM propaganda two stroke video you posted, but your response to that was "OK boys. Better go get out your towels."

[Slaugo 35]

Ride Red!

[Guest Crusty]

The CRF 250R got a complete makeover,

to a bike that was BAD A$.

Why change the XR 650L it's PERFECT!

I would buy another!

Why change the CRF 450X nothing beats it in Baja. http://www.dirtillustrated.com/content.php?contentID=190

http://powersports.h...rf250r/360.aspx

Dual FI injectors

Slightly wider ratio gearing and wider gears

Works-type front brake calipers

New frame with much lower CG

Engine is tilted back 3 degrees

Narrower profile body work

New seat, subframe, rear hub, forks, etc etc.

They place a second injector in the airbox. When the engine hits 8000 rpms, the injector in the TB closes down and the airbox injector picks up. Theory is, there isn't enough time/turbulence at 8000+rpms to sufficiently break up the fuel droplets. Putting it out in the airbox gives more time/turbulence to get the job done.

[Slaugo 35]

For approx 11 pounds more and basiclly same seat hieght. and a few more bucks you can get one of these. Yes the 250 is a bit more narrow.

http://powersports.honda.com/2014/crf450r/specifications.aspx

[Guest Crusty]

For approx 11 pounds more and basiclly same seat hieght. and a few more bucks you can get one of these. Yes the 250 is a bit more narrow.

http://powersports.h...ifications.aspx

That's exactly what I wanted to be the next bike in the stable.

But we had to buy a bigger stable, first.

Craig.

[Slaugo 35]

For approx 11 pounds more and basiclly same seat hieght. and a few more bucks you can get one of these. Yes the 250 is a bit more narrow.

http://powersports.h...ifications.aspx

That's exactly what I wanted to be the next bike in the stable.

But we had to buy a bigger stable, first.

Craig.

Makes cents!