Beach to River III

[PastaPilot 17]

Would I still be allowed if I had a support truck come along??

Dude I've seen your support driver.

[JohnnyAirtime 2]

....

She'd probably have to work.

[PastaPilot 17]

Dates are up. I'll comb through the tracks I can find, lay out new ones for what I can't, and get my things together. I hope some of you that expressed interest can make it.

Jan 15, 16, 17.

Day 1 - Silver Strand to Calexico

Day 2 - Calexico to Yuma

Day 3 - Yuma to San Diego

[Covered in Dust 163]

I might be able to swing this ride. What kind of bike are going? I'd ride my KTM 525 and have 140 mile range with my normal tank and about 300 with the big tank.

Covered in Rust

[paulmbowers 236]

Damn.

Give us a full report, including tracks- maybe I'll ride it the following weekend when my schedule permits.

[rexr 0]

Dangit.. Can't do that weekend.. You guys have fun, take lots of pics and give us a good ride report.

[Strega 0]

At North Glamis KOA that weekend, can't make it.

[Jim 0]

Paul,

If the KOA ride goes well for my ankle (first ride back), I might be up for joining you the following weekend. But then again, the last time I rode with you.....

Damn.

Give us a full report, including tracks- maybe I'll ride it the following weekend when my schedule permits.

[PastaPilot 17]

Welp, I meant to post this a week ago but I wasn't nearly ready for a 3 day ride like I'd hoped. Also nobody else was interested in that weekend which might be why I wasn't entirely motivated to make a run at it.

I might try again in early Feb or March.

As for the tracks on this ride.

I've received a few requests for tracks and I've sent some out to some of you. In response to the previous and current requests I have I feel the need to share my thoughts. I started putting together the routes for this ride in late 2007. That was two computers, three operating systems and an external hard drive ago. I had all but one leg and another was quite a bit off, somehow one disappered and the other must've been an early version, but while rebuilding the courses I was reminded of was how much work went into developing the routes for this trip. It would have to be nearly 500 hours scanning Google Earth looking for trails, two track, desert roads. More time was then spent searching for BLM and USFS maps for wilderness and OHV area bounderies and then cross referencing the paper maps to Google Earth to make sure my routes were legal. Then I did a few scouting trips on the areas that are close to home. When I thought I had it all down, I requested a work assignment that would allow me to fly over the desert to verify certain roads exist East of the dunes. What I'm getting at is I put a tremendous amount of work into making this idea a reality and I openly invite people to join me when I go. I've never asked for anything in return, but I will not be making these tracks open for public use. I will not be sharing them with you. I'm sorry if you feel hurt in any way, but when you've researched and connected 500 miles of roads and trails that don't entirely exist on maps for a weekend trip that has always had, and will continue to have, an open invitation I think you'll begin to understand.

I hope to see you on the trails soon,

Jon

[TrophyHunter 15]

I'm confused. I understand there is great personal devotion and gobs of time in laying the ride out. You had the benefit of being paid by your company to fly over and verify/develop some areas/tracks. It's an accomplishment, no doubt.

I can't believe Crawdaddy and others do this for free and share it with others, or that the DSM GPS library is a contribution to the motorcycling community for all to enjoy.

I imagine if I decide to do this ride, I have to turn off the tracking on my Garmin.

Dumbfounded.......or maybe just dumb.

[Strega 0]

There are no secret trails, just trails people haven't ridden yet...your tracks won't remain secret for long, that's just a reality.

I definitely don't share your opinion in this case. You should put the track on DSM, put your name on it, and let others enjoy what you created.

[KTMrad 508]

I know many don't understand Jon's point of view, but I do.

My friend in Vegas feels the same way about his tracks when he puts on a ride in Nevada, where he spent weeks putting it together. He does it for his friends, and not for the whole world. It's just his point of view, and I respect that.

I'm not going to explain the different points of view, but I totally understand where Jon is coming from.

Sometimes some things are best kept quiet, or to a smaller scale.

[KTMrad 508]

Jon, I'd like to do the ride, but can't until after the Desert Dash....hope you can set the ride date after the Dash.

[PastaPilot 17]

I imagine if I decide to do this ride, I have to turn off the tracking on my Garmin.

Do whatever you want with it, it's yours. In the past there have been 4 others that have enjoyed this trip with me. On each trip I've offered to upload tracks for them and never said a word about what they do with there navs. I was just glad they wanted to join me.

[PastaPilot 17]

Jon, I'd like to do the ride, but can't until after the Desert Dash....hope you can set the ride date after the Dash.

Let's work it out Randy.

[TrophyHunter 15]

I guess I just don't understand one's willingness to take advantage of other's tracks (Wing Mtn, Peaks Loop, etc) and then be possessive with theirs.

I can respect that opinion, just don't get it or agree with it. A lot of resources were used to form those tracks...Google Earth, Maps produced by others, Q&A of other riders.....if none of those were used and it was a solitary effort, I might get it.

With all things, to each their own.

[JohnnyAirtime 2]

oh goodness... a "track" discussion.

Well, I have to say... I completely understand Jon's thoughts on this subject. And I too, am a pretty big hoarder of my own tracks. But also, I've asked others to share tracks that were special to them. However, I don't go passing out that track I've obtained... (GPS users motto maybe?!). I do use it to put together a piece to the puzzle (every now and again, or every blue moon - once a year maybe?!). And then, ask that whoever joins my ride (yes, I said "my" ride - as I feel if I put it together, did the logistics, mind melted the path to my brain map, noted all the hospitals and clinics along the way, put people at home in place for a rescue if needed, hired chase drivers and a support crew, hired sweep riders, fielded all the questions about the ride for weeks on end, loaded all the riders GPS's with the track and in some cases showed the riders how to use their GPS....etc.etc. - I could go on and on, but I feel the point may be made) to NOT share the tracks amongst other riders and their friends who did not join the ride. Mostly, to keep it as less ridden as possible in the near future. WHY? Well, I feel the more people go out and ride the trails I've created from point A to Z, the more they may be justifiably shut down or closed to OHV. If the trails I created, were county or public maintained roads... then, of course... I'd share all I have. But they are not, they are places not many bikes travel. And in most cases, virgin territory. The next time I ride that area, I'd like to know it's the same as the way I left it. There are times I see guys riding, who don't respect the land or the local laws (some of them are in my own circle of riding friends - it's a large circle)... so of course, that plays a big part and yes... ruins it for some of the good guys out there. Thats just the way the ball bounces in my court, so I respect others that are also secretive with their own creations (they too have their own reasons and thoughts on this subject, I can respect that... whether I agree with it or not).

Also, if your one to ask for help gaining access from an area I know or have ridden... of course I'll help, and am one to offer help in building a track if I don't have it already. It's the least I can do, plus i like to hear feedback and to know I helped out a fellow rider. I also like to know it's appreciated. Who doesn't? But I don't freely distribute, or post my tracks to public websites for the world to see. Not unless it's as stated, and an already known and burned in path that most would already have. I don't mind "stating the obvious" if you will.

I do LOTS of research for each path I create on my own. For each ride into new and unknown territories. Research that only my fiance' understands (due to countless hours in my office, away from her), or another rider who's put on rides involving many who rely on you and with miles that are in the hundreds... to thousands. I only know of a few who post those tracks to the internet... and at that point, I can say they are much more giving than I. The ones that can simply ask "hey man, you got tracks of that ride?" Usually won't get any response from me, and truly are not the type to understand my thoughts on all of this. And normally I don't know them from Adam. Which adds to the burn. Ultimately, I see it as a lack of respect for the creator.

...sorry for the long winded post, I just have a lot to say about this subject... it comes up more often now that riders are obtaining GPSs, and wanting "tracks". Usually because they don't have the ability to build their own. Or they are just too lazy to take the time. Or if neither of the latter... It's "so easy" to just ask, why not, right?!

[eddie 0]

I don't understand the "lack of respect" adding to "the burn" comment. We operate on completely different wavelengths.

Interestingly enough, I too, have done countless hours of researchto create routes for rides. Pring over various paper maps, google earth, google maps, and various oral sources. I do the research because I ENJOY it.

Maybe I know roads another other person doesn't. Maybe I have better contacts than someone else and am able to keep better track of the verbal reports. Whatever - if I can do it, why not? Internet searches and phone calls about gas stops, hospitals... Which hotels are going to give me the best group rate? Which restaurants will accept X number of people on individual checks? Which route will give us the most fun in X hours between start and lunch? Lunch and 5PM?

Mine have been mostly street rides, usually multiple day rides for largish groups. I stick to roads that are less traveled and usually technical. Roads not everyone knows about and not everyone is comfortable on. Roads we would all like to see less traveled by others. Roads I know about because I was shown by others or they were described by others, or... gee, this looks like it'll be fun. I wonder if it goes through? Who can I contact to find out about that neck of the woods? We are a relatively small group of people. There's almost always someone who knows someone who knows....

As for the tracks of the local dirt roads... I'm a new dirt rider, and not all that familiar with the unpaved and unmarked roads of this county. I'll get there, but until then, If i see something that piques my interest - I'll continue to ask about tracks or routes to get to places I am unfamiliar with.

If that offends someone or anyone feels "disrespected"... Oops.

It's not about you - it's about the ride.

I do LOTS of research for each path I create on my own. For each ride into new and unknown territories. Research that only my fiance' understands (due to countless hours in my office, away from her), or another rider who's put on rides involving many who rely on you and with miles that are in the hundreds... to thousands. I only know of a few who post those tracks to the internet... and at that point, I can say they are much more giving than I. The ones that can simply ask "hey man, you got tracks of that ride?" Usually won't get any response from me, and truly are not the type to understand my thoughts on all of this. And normally I don't know them from Adam. Which adds to the burn. Ultimately, I see it as a lack of respect for the creator.

...sorry for the long winded post, I just have a lot to say about this subject... it comes up more often now that riders are obtaining GPSs, and wanting "tracks". Usually because they don't have the ability to build their own. Or they are just too lazy to take the time. Or if neither of the latter... It's "so easy" to just ask, why not, right?!

[JohnnyAirtime 2]

I don't understand the "lack of respect" adding to "the burn" comment. We operate on completely different wavelengths.

Interestingly enough, I too, have done countless hours of researchto create routes for rides. Pring over various paper maps, google earth, google maps, and various oral sources. I do the research because I ENJOY it.

..............................

If that offends someone or anyone feels "disrespected"... Oops.

It's not about you - it's about the ride.

I guess if you were more familiar with me, and how I work... the respect thing may come more into play, maybe not. Who knows. For example, I respect my elders. Why? Well, because they're older. And because they've seen more, done more, and are wise in their years. It's similar to how I respect other riders, and their work they put into the sport.

Countless hours of ROAD or map browsing isn't what I speak of when I explain my efforts. I've put together rides of up to 1000 miles, and 40% of it may cover virgin territory. Or maybe it crosses private land, and I took the time to get access from the owner... or even his gate key. Riding it, G-Earthing it, riding it some more, and using my resources (not the "normal" internet resources) are what make it fun. As yes, I too ENJOY it. I love it in fact!! However, that doesn't mean I'm about to give it away.... to a person who I don't know. Nor do I know what they'll do with the track itself.

If you felt I was speaking directly at you in my post, sorry... I wasn't. I was speaking to the people who have sent me countless PMs over the many years of internet glory... and me with my trusty GPS. I've been using them (on my bike) since the Magellan map 410 and just before. I'd say around 1994. I've got LOTS of tracks!

And I do agree, it's ALL about the RIDE. But how'd you get there? Who gets the kudos for it all? As simple as a pat on the back to the organizer may be all the respect he or she is asking for. Who knows?!

... come on one of my rides sometime (3rd Annual Cancer Ride For Life would be a good 700 mile start!) and you might, just change your mind about what I speak of. Then again, maybe not. But at least you'll have a killer GPS track to follow anytime in the future!

[eddie 0]

Tell ya what - IF I don't still believe that sand is my mortal enemy come the next Ride For Life, I'll probably join you. Given my current skill level in sand washes, I'd rather ride the drz to dallas and back nonstop on slab than ride 300 miles of desert

As for accolades... Different riding situations, to be sure, but I'm not that, so I don't get it.

Perhaps I'll run across you in Otay one of these days. Blue DRZ black acerbis guards and white/blue mx outfit/helmet. The guy who looks lost.

I don't understand the "lack of respect" adding to "the burn" comment. We operate on completely different wavelengths.

Interestingly enough, I too, have done countless hours of researchto create routes for rides. Pring over various paper maps, google earth, google maps, and various oral sources. I do the research because I ENJOY it.

..............................

If that offends someone or anyone feels "disrespected"... Oops.

It's not about you - it's about the ride.

I guess if you were more familiar with me, and how I work... the respect thing may come more into play, maybe not. Who knows. For example, I respect my elders. Why? Well, because they're older. And because they've seen more, done more, and are wise in their years. It's similar to how I respect other riders, and their work they put into the sport.

Countless hours of ROAD or map browsing isn't what I speak of when I explain my efforts. I've put together rides of up to 1000 miles, and 40% of it may cover virgin territory. Or maybe it crosses private land, and I took the time to get access from the owner... or even his gate key. Riding it, G-Earthing it, riding it some more, and using my resources (not the "normal" internet resources) are what make it fun. As yes, I too ENJOY it. I love it in fact!! However, that doesn't mean I'm about to give it away.... to a person who I don't know. Nor do I know what they'll do with the track itself.

If you felt I was speaking directly at you in my post, sorry... I wasn't. I was speaking to the people who have sent me countless PMs over the many years of internet glory... and me with my trusty GPS. I've been using them (on my bike) since the Magellan map 410 and just before. I'd say around 1994. I've got LOTS of tracks!

And I do agree, it's ALL about the RIDE. But how'd you get there? Who gets the kudos for it all? As simple as a pat on the back to the organizer may be all the respect he or she is asking for. Who knows?!

... come on one of my rides sometime (3rd Annual Cancer Ride For Life would be a good 700 mile start!) and you might, just change your mind about what I speak of. Then again, maybe not. But at least you'll have a killer GPS track to follow anytime in the future!

[Crawdaddy 96]

I posted my "circumnavigating the Grand Canyon" track file on ADV Rider because they were all public access roads/trails and I'd like to see them utilized/remain open......it also put my name on the ADV/Dualsport map and should help my CORE business......but most importantly, I'd like to see the dualsport community take advantage of their machines and see some views unseen by most......it's the most viewed track file in the GPS Tracks West section of ADV rider (~18,000 views and ~700+ track downloads: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514339 )

Needless to say, I've posted a lot of other stuff in the public domain too (X-Plane, Primm, Mojave Rd., etc., etc.)......I look at it as sort of a karma move on my part that has paid off in spades with folks sharing information/tracks with me as well.....they appreciate my efforts and they’re willing to give back/do the same.....and, I know it sounds corny, but I really enjoy hearing the stories/seeing the smiling faces/pics when folks return from a trip using a track file I created/shared with them...

That said, I also understand where Pasta/Johnny/Rad are coming from......"off the map" single track, washes, dunes, etc *may* morph into two track and/or draw attention to certain "secret" areas if shared in the public domain......I generally keep that stuff close to the vest and just share those files with friends rather than post'em in the public domain...... and I would hope folks understand that rather than feeling some sense of entitlement to my work product/intellectual property.......likewise, I don't post track files picked up at a "promoted events".....it's sort of an unspoken ethics thing......the promoter put in the effort to create the track file/bring folks out/recoup some of his investment in terms of time and money.......of course, the reality is that once a promoter downloads tracks to others they've effectively become public domain since ride promoters don't use non disclosure agreements which would be largely unenforceable anyway......regardless, I respect/understand that effort and I don’t post/share those track files........if the promoter chooses to post'em after the ride has concluded then that's great but it's the promoter’s decision as the creator of the work product, not mine........I hope folks will be equally considerate when they receive track files from future CORE rides even though they're not technically bound to do so......

Getting back on topic, I'll keep an eye on this thread and join in if the dates work for me.....this ride looks like a blast

[PastaPilot 17]

I guess I just don't understand one's willingness to take advantage of other's tracks (Wing Mtn, Peaks Loop, etc) and then be possessive with theirs.

I can respect that opinion, just don't get it or agree with it. A lot of resources were used to form those tracks...Google Earth, Maps produced by others, Q&A of other riders.....if none of those were used and it was a solitary effort, I might get it.

With all things, to each their own.

The Coconino Trailriders made the Flagstaff trails we rode available for public use because that's what they do. They promote the use of the land in there areas by the public. In the fight with the USFS and BLM they wave a larger flag if more people are using the land. It's the same with the Stewards of the Sequoia, if more of the public uses the land that's more voters and if the land closes more lost votes for the next election. I've loaded GPS information from both groups and in return I've sent them donations to continue their legal battles.

I don't want donations, I want to enjoy and use the fruits of my labors how I want. Call it my intellectual property rights. If the routes were developed using charted roads I'd have no problem giving away a route to Yuma (merge onto I-8 East) and back (merge onto I-8 West).

[JohnnyAirtime 2]

Eddie... Hope to see you on the 3rd Annual. But yes, there's LOTS of sand. Lots of everything actually (but no trees)

Crawdaddy... great summarization, and I agree whole heartedly. It's nice to see you "get the point" trying to be made.

PastaPilot... always a good point, and I know you mean well.

... so, when are we doing this lengthy ride?? Like I said Pasta... I'm down, but I'd prefer to have a truck meet us along the route (experience tells me it's for the better, safer approach). I know if my normal driver can't make it, I have other options. Would it cramp your style (or, would you embrace and toss your bag in as well)?!

[KTMrad 508]

My 950 will be the chase truck

[PastaPilot 17]

KTMrad and I worked out some dates and I think this will finallly happen this year.

NEW DATES MAR 12 13 14

Dates are finally set. I hope some of you that expressed interest can still make it.

Meet up will be at Silver Strand State Park 9AM. From there we ride East to Tecate for gas and lunch. Then more East to Ocotillo for gas (if needed) then East again to Calexico for the night. I'll look into a few hotels and post up what I can find.

In the morning we gas up and head east to the Duner's Diner for early lunch and then Eastbound through the dunes to Winterhaven for gas. Afterwards it's Northeast to Picacho Park for pictures. Then South to Yuma for the night. Last time we rode into town with no idea where to stay and found a decent motel, it was rough but it worked.

The next morning we gas up for the longest leg of the trip and my favorite. This leg will test your gas range, ~120 miles from Yuma to Brawley through some of the deepest sand I've ever ridden for gas and lunch. Then next leg is from Brawley around Superstition Mt to Ocotillo for gas and a quick dinner. Then we ride dirt routes paralleling S-2 eventually leading to Banner and then slab it home. There is a gas station in Julian but I've found they have odd hours for a gas station. The next real station is in Santa Ysabel.

Hope to see you there.

There's been some talk of longer multi-day trips. I'd like to this again. Maybe in Dec or Jan.