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:lol: perhaps in all this mess, dual sport riders could become "useful", as maybe they will need some "volunteers" to somehow monitor, check trails, etc....

maybe in ALL these parks closing.....no better way to access back country........kind of "adopt a park" kind of thing??.

maybe it's worth riding clubs getting poised to jump in and be ready with a plan...?

as there won't be rangers any more....some of this could potentially open more areas for riding?..more areas with less structure.....you never know.....

maybe the MSF instructors we know could come up with a new "ranger rider training".....give riders a patch and vest, and lets go......

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:lol: perhaps in all this mess, dual sport riders could become "useful", as maybe they will need some "volunteers" to somehow monitor, check trails, etc....

maybe in ALL these parks closing.....no better way to access back country........kind of "adopt a park" kind of thing??.

maybe it's worth riding clubs getting poised to jump in and be ready with a plan...?

as there won't be rangers any more....some of this could potentially open more areas for riding?..more areas with less structure.....you never know.....

maybe the MSF instructors we know could come up with a new "ranger rider training".....give riders a patch and vest, and lets go......

Yeah, there would be the fox watching then hen house (quotes the greenie).

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I'm not sure if this is the best thread for this, but...are there any trail maintenance days planned anytime soon? Who's the resident TRAIL maintenance day coordinating expert? I have seen some reports in old threads but I haven't come across anything recently. It seems to me that a great way to get some positive PR would be to go out and do some community service, such as cleaning up some of our riding areas or doing some maintenance work. I think it would be a good way to show that we are "policing our own", and that we are accepting our responsibilities as stewards of the environment. We could even contact other groups and see if we can get a bigger turnout (some of the jeep and truck clubs, etc.). A couple calls to local newspapers, and a couple emails, and we might even get a reporter to show up and give us some media attention. Donating a couple bucks to the Off Road Coalition or picking up some trash during a ride is great, but if we start generating more local public awareness for OUR cause, what we do can go so much further.

I know the thought of working together with dirty 4-wheelers is painful for some, but we're ultimately all on the same side, right? I mean, everybody wants what's best for themselves - it's just a difference of opinion over what is "best". We all want land to stay open so we can use it. The more land that becomes unavailable, the more people have to share usage of whatever is still open (meaning more crowded recreation areas for everyone). It seems to me that we could learn a lesson from the "environmentalists". They seem to have figured out that by combining their efforts and using the media to their advantage, and taking the offensive (as someone else mentioned), they have forced us to be defensive. As someone else has also already pointed out, a strong defense will never win the war. I'll tell you something else too - to the general public, we (offroaders) look like the bad guys. The media is an incredibly powerful tool, and IMHO we grossly underuse it.

A lot of you have been fighting the land use battle for a lot longer than I have, and have a better idea than me of what has worked in the past, so let me know what you think. RangerDan? KTMRad? Dirt Dame? KLRoger? Anyone else? Good idea or not?

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The section of Kernan that I believe we're responsible for has been recently "improved" by the organization that ran a mountain bike race there. "Improvement" consisted of using a small dozer to smooth out all the rough parts and ruts to provide a more enjoyable experience for the bicyclists.

It appears they further "improved" the trail by adding a "dangerous corner" (or something like that) trail sign, which caught my eye -"wonder why they put that there?" and I nearly ran off the corner to which it referred. And I'm not really sure why THAT corner was so important.

fn

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We do have trail maintenance days on the trail we have adopted. Carguy always tells us when and where. We then go and cut the brush away from the trail so that it is safe to see around the corners.

Terra del Sol and Sand Diego Four Wheelers are funding a pit toilet that will be put in soon. I know that the 4 wheelers got some of the funding for that from the yearly event they put on. There is a radio station that sponsors a desert cleanup at superstition for the last couple of years. Again the jeep clubs help out with that. They also help out taking handicapped children for rides in the back country and other stuff. They also are going to be at the fair this year.

If we had somebody with the inclination and time they could see about doing similar things. If someone put out a time and place I’m sure some of us would show up to help out. I’m always willing to give beauty queen contestants rides on the 990. Just make the arrangements and I’ll be there! :blink:

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it's in the subtext, and i think you nailed it FN.

catch-as-catch-can?? i think i am in that mode if it's gonna be that way....

black on black(*reversible??), with a poss "black out" switch on the lights....no one sees nothing.

plate quick removal...*dust in the wind*

not that i WOULD....but :good:

:rolleyes:

WORD

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Yes...I agree with all the posts here. Believe it or not, but there are a "few" of us public employees who actually oppose tax increases, big government, and the "socialist agenda" which seems to have overrun Kalifornia.

That's why I intend to retire in Arkansas. Partly because I have friends there...but also I couldn't afford to live here on my retirement income. With 27 years in the PERS system I will get around $2300 a month AND then they will cut my Federal Social Security in half because they consider having an additional source of "government retirement" a "winfall profit adjustment". Thus, I'll get about $370 from Social Security. Total: try retirement in CA on $2670 a month...and no, I could never qualify for a home loan on my income either ( and I wouldn't sign one of the "liar loans").

Consider the above the next time you hear the lie that it's the "overpaid public employees" that are the State's problem...

Dan

The real communism is the useless "conflict" in the middle east that has cost us trillions over the last eight years just to keep people employed. Define overpaid? Take people out of the public sector and see what they could fetch in the private sector. My guess is half on average. There are many overpaid public employees in this State that are part of the problem too. The fact that you may not be one of them does not represent the big picture. How many private sector people have pensions like the public employees? No one even matches 401ks in private sector any more. A lawyer I play tennis with told me this weekend he is hiring lawyers with degrees from USC for $15/hour. USC is a top national university. Education my *^%#. I will raise my children to be mediocre in school, join the U.S. Communist Party (i.e. federal gov't), laugh their way to the bank, and ride around the desert at age 45 while they are "retired" and collecting a government pension. That is assuming there has not been a revolution to stop this madness by that time.

my 401(k) is matched at a 80%+ rate... and still isn't growing :good: ... (i laugh so I don't cry)

I don't hold public employees liable... it's the higher-ups that need to learn how to run a business... maybe they can learn something from the OHV fund... oh wait... bad example (how many businesses could "sell a product for X dollars every two years... in return, you get NOTHING back every two years"

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Bottom line (and this will "irritate" a lot of you...) is that this is all typical politics. It is very easy to blame government and government employees...but who really puts these "irrational" policies into place. Each and everyone of us is the "government".

I remember a typical example of this while I was working parks down in San Diego. We had obtained grant money and had installed a new trail to local mountain top. Nice trail...with benches, shade structures, views of Lake Hodges, and so forth. Unfortunately, the trail's view point also looked down into some private residences maybe a half-mile away. These folks and the surrounding community didn't want "people looking into our back yards". They went to the board and demanded the trail be closed. The local equestrian, mountain bike, and hiking groups got wind of this and also went to the board and demanded the trail be left "as is". Many attempts at negotiation between the groups followed...with no movement on either side. In addition, since it was Federal land operated under a "Recreation Use Permit", the area in question just couldn't be closed to public use.

The end result: The Board ordered the trail closed, but had signs posted that read: "The trail behind this sign is closed to all public use...you are welcome however to hike cross country to the overlook 1.5 miles ahead". So how stupid is this...you have a brand new, grant funded trail that can't be used and is blocked off...yet you hike up to the top as long as you don't use the trail!

Now, I ask you, who was at fault for such a stupid public policy? The park employees? They did their job by finding grant funding, installing a nice trail, and operating it effectively. Wasn't the real problem here the citizens of the community who can't agree upon or negotiate any compromises? Of course, the comments from both sides after this stupid policy was implemented was "look at how stupid government is..."

Bottom line. These type of situations have everyday and in all sections of government. It's just a whole lot easier to blame the guy or gal shoveling the horse crap off the trail...than to turn the mirror on yourself.

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dan; hate to disagree, but do you really expect us to believe ANYBODY picks up after horses?! :)

Seriously; I tried to make the same point... "higher ups" is the elected officials. WE put them there.

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Regarding public employee compensation. Yes, there may be "certain jobs" that are overpaid. But I can assure you parks isn't one of them. I've never made more than $62,000...and that's as a Division Chief. Most of my folks earn around 14.00 per hour and then have up to 500.00 a month taken back out for their share of benefit burden. Their retirement is a 2% at 60 plan which means at age 60, they will get 2% for each year of work. Thus, an employee who works 30 years will get 60% of their pay or about $8.40 per hour retirement wage.

At the same time, regarding my $62,000 income...I have cut operating costs in my division by over $1 million dollars per year, and obtained grant funds that reduced costs to local tax payers while increasing their number of parks. In reality therefore, I have provided the public with a net positive...that being I have generated and saved many times the amount of my own salary.

Yes, there are "some" exessess in public pay. Just as there are excesses in private pay...AIG anyone?

Sorry, it's just not that easy to say that all public employees are overpaid, don't do their job, and don't provide a real public service. I didn't even go into the lives I've saved over the decades...

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dan; hate to disagree, but do you really expect us to believe ANYBODY picks up after horses?! :)

Seriously; I tried to make the same point... "higher ups" is the elected officials. WE put them there.

Not only horses, but dog crap, and yes...a lot of human "waste" also. It really is a "shitty" job...

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dan; hate to disagree, but do you really expect us to believe ANYBODY picks up after horses?! :lol:

Not only horses, but dog crap, and yes...a lot of human "waste" also. It really is a "shitty" job...

:) Yes, sadly I have noted that people visiting the trail systems often don't have enough sense to poop off the trails, let alone cover it up. And while I'm ranting on poopy people, I just want to say that I always make sure to tell the rangers that have to maintain the outhouses that they are my heros. :) I don't know why people have to vandalize and crap all over public bathroom facilities, but I'm glad that there is somebody there to fix stuff and clean up after these idiots.

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I much prefer liberty to being cared for. Even if that means that I will have to take care of my own problems along the way.

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