2016 vs 2017 KTM 500 Exc

[Bagstr 288]

 

 Well It Is About Time,,  to start the discussion on whether Newer is Better with the wildly successful long stroke 500.  2017 brings much change; frame, motor and suspension.  I find myself intellectually engaged to sort through the change. Change is Fun regardless of whether it is actual improvement. Let the discussion begin!  This is for the Exc working mans bike, not the race bikes please.  The Race Bikes get most of the hype but I am interested in what filters down to the bike with the plate.

Motor = mass centralization.  Frame = lateral stiffness, longitudinal flex. Suspension; rear fluid volume, relocated location / geometry. Suspension; front fork compression and rebound isolated in separate forks while retaining springs.

 What do you think??   Who has put down a deposit??   

   Photo Credit to KTM Site  -    I need to mention source when stolen from some creative person. Correct PMB?

[robertaccio 412]

great photo by the way.

absolutely brilliant bike out of the box guaranteed.

Every time we all think, how can these freaking bikes get any better...........they dig up and into deeper engineering and do it.

and  I have zero experience riding this one and the previous models of the 500.

[CVRick 42]

7 hours ago, robertaccio said:

great photo by the way.

absolutely brilliant bike out of the box guaranteed.

Every time we all think, how can these freaking bikes get any better...........they dig up and into deeper engineering and do it.

and  I have zero experience riding this one and the previous models of the 500.

Photo is very nice.

[Bagstr 288]

  Bagstr will lay down the proposal that:  For the recreational rider, the difference may be interesting but not significant. There I said the unthinkable, and placed my bet.

 

[vanjoosten 4]

Does anyone here know if the new fork is "better" for having comp and reb on separate sides, or is it a cost cutting measure? It seems convenient to have both adjusters up top, but I can't wrap my head around how it would perform as well as the older style.

[Bagstr 288]

           

[Bp619 104]

Well atleast you cant say that you couldn't find the choke and idle knobs. No kick start can u ktm guys handle that.

[Bagstr 288]

 

Weight = 109kg / 240lbs without fuel. "16 Bike is about 247lbs per KTM literature. KTM is claiming a 10lb weight loss.  But I think that is a mistake in the literature referencing the air spring bike. Still 7lbs equals 7lbs

 

[Ptkatoomer 114]

Lighter is always better. Especially in the tight, technical stuff. Pushing, lifting and maneuvering less weight is a good thing. As for the rest :it's pretty hard to beat that motor just the way it is. 

[Suspenders 43]

The fork looks a bit different than the 4CS? Although the 4CS can be made to work it can be trying and sometimes takes a couple runs at it internally because the adjusters do not have much effect. So instead of clicking into a sweet spot you have to do it with the shim stacks. Change the terrain or track and you may have to go back in. The omission of the bottom / base adjusters is a cost cutting measure. In addition the 4CS I am told takes considerably less man hours to build. So we can add adjusters to the base of the forks and install bottoming cones etc. to get them working well. Not great, but quite well. Some are just installing kyb and other brand internals and others are simply putting different forks on. We tested 4CS with Noah Kepple. Noah had them modified by WP and Stillwell and by us. We did really well in comparison but we made the open chambers work better. Noah then bought an XC with open chamber forks. Noah is now confident he has the best suspension in Worcs. Much of the credit goes to Noah as he is so good at dialing in suspensions. Best I have ever worked with. We do have racers that are quite pleased with the 4CS yet the next guy will not like them. That nearly never happens with others except some air forks.

The linkage changes on the other models may be what they are doing with this model. Weight savings seems to be the key here as the leverage has changed using a lighter spring and shock. Down by several spring rates for same weight rider. Have had no issues with dialing in the newest rear linkage & shocks.

KTM air fork, Talking to Schmoke at 212 and he likes the new air fork out of the box and is running them stock in the nationals. Another customer has the ktm air and the new PSF2. I modded the PSF2 on the new CRF450 and it was just starting to surpass the ktm air fork when we ran out of time. That after full mods on the KYB forks. But you still have .5lb increase in air pressure per degree increase in temperature and it is noticeable. Not game changing but noticeable.

Keep in mind we are going to a very high level of performance here. 

Hope that was not too wordy.

[robertaccio 412]

http://www.enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/903-first-look-ktm-2017-four-strokes

 

X-Plor 48mm forks are the latest set up for the E models (KTM and Husky)

[robertaccio 412]

57 minutes ago, Suspenders said:

The fork looks a bit different than the 4CS? Although the 4CS can be made to work it can be trying and sometimes takes a couple runs at it internally because the adjusters do not have much effect. So instead of clicking into a sweet spot you have to do it with the shim stacks. Change the terrain or track and you may have to go back in. The omission of the bottom / base adjusters is a cost cutting measure. In addition the 4CS I am told takes considerably less man hours to build. So we can add adjusters to the base of the forks and install bottoming cones etc. to get them working well. Not great, but quite well. Some are just installing kyb and other brand internals and others are simply putting different forks on. We tested 4CS with Noah Kepple. Noah had them modified by WP and Stillwell and by us. We did really well in comparison but we made the open chambers work better. Noah then bought an XC with open chamber forks. Noah is now confident he has the best suspension in Worcs. Much of the credit goes to Noah as he is so good at dialing in suspensions. Best I have ever worked with. We do have racers that are quite pleased with the 4CS yet the next guy will not like them. That nearly never happens with others except some air forks.

The linkage changes on the other models may be what they are doing with this model. Weight savings seems to be the key here as the leverage has changed using a lighter spring and shock. Down by several spring rates for same weight rider. Have had no issues with dialing in the newest rear linkage & shocks.

KTM air fork, Talking to Schmoke at 212 and he likes the new air fork out of the box and is running them stock in the nationals. Another customer has the ktm air and the new PSF2. I modded the PSF2 on the new CRF450 and it was just starting to surpass the ktm air fork when we ran out of time. That after full mods on the KYB forks. But you still have .5lb increase in air pressure per degree increase in temperature and it is noticeable. Not game changing but noticeable.

Keep in mind we are going to a very high level of performance here. 

Hope that was not too wordy.

no not too wordy. thanks for your input, so far the testers are really liking the WP AER forks out of the box (the TX300 interests me, its a simple clean GNCC type set up) but I may be continuing as an E guy and get TE300 with the new WP X-Plor configuration forks which are most likely better for me.

but for sure its probably going to be 18 before I drop my dime.

[Suspenders 43]

KTM really did not do well with the 4CS but most everything else they are doing is really really good.

Guess with Yamaha starting to nip at their heals they need to.

[bikeslut 1]

It was kinda wordy.

 

I understood some of it. For most of us, when suspenders says he can make it work very well...it's going to feel like magic.

[Bagstr 288]

   And then there is the Euro4 compliance issue:

From what I read the new measure cuts some emissions in half and has significant noise measures as well. No one in the press has discussed how this has affected drivability of the bikes that I have seen. This could be a larger issue in Europe  vs the US market, i.e. there could be wiggle room here. From the KTM US Enduro page there is a description of a two stage Cold Start and Idle circuit with the Keihin Engine Management System. " Push the throttle back to disengage the cold start." That's new. 

Dear to my heart is the lack of the Xcw line-up which allows in some states more latitude with the ECU mapping. My 450 starts instantly and runs clean at all times with no emissions canister, air injection or screen on the exhaust tip. 

So, what exactly am I talking about here?  I am first in line to keep our bikes quiet and public friendly. We all know our interaction with le gran public is very much in our self interest.  Further, my hope is that it is simply more and better hardware to solve the puzzle.  Waiting for the Test Ride Opinions.

      Bags