Down Hill techniques

[RogerTOWM 0]

Ok here is a dumb question; what is the best way of going down something like heart attack hill, besides letting someone else take the bike down for you that is.

I have driven down that hill several times in a Jeep but never on a bike. In the jeep I just put it in 1st gear and let her idle down. It gets a little tippy in spots but you don’t want to hit the break and lock them up. Going fast is not a good option either. So how do you go down the hill on a motorcycle?

Roger

[darylhunter 1]

First, practice using the front brake down a more mild but somewhat loose hill. You want to be able to apply front brake till the locking point and be comfortable modulating the brake lever as necessary to keep the front wheel turning enough to stay upright while still applying maximum braking force.

The rear brake won't do much for you and is very easy to lock so you'll need to pay attention to the clutch lever and pull that in should the rear start to lock because you don't want to kill the motor.

When done right you'll be able to creep down the hill at a near stop with each wheel locking and unlocking but still turning enough to keep you upright and on line.

Pick your line, put it in first gear and start down the hill slowly. The more speed you start out with, the more you'll have to scrub off later, so do what you can to keep the speed down from the start.

Heart attack hill has a nice run out space at the bottom, so even if you pick up some speed you'll still have room to stop after you've reached the bottom.

There will be spots on the hill where there's just no traction. Learning how to read the terrain will be helpful because then you wont be surprised when suddenly one end or the other locks. In places where it's just too slippery to use more than a touch of brakes, don't try. Look for the next opportunity where there is traction and brake harder there.

Most importantly, stay on line if you can. This is because hopefully you've picked a line that is rideable without too many big bumps or ruts. If you start sliding one end or the other and get off line into a rutty or bumpy section - that may not be something you can ride out and presto, you're on your head.

Hope this helps,

[Brett 0]

Roger -

Steep, loose, rutty, off-camber hills are difficult to go down precisely as we intend. One result of this is our feet come off the pegs in an effort to adjust our line, or just 'save it'.

Try putting the bike in first gear and turning the engine off. Use the clutch for your rear braking force since your foot may not be available. Careful brake modulation is important and clutching also does a better job than a hurried foot.

[Joliet 0]

Roger, very sound advice so far. For "heart attack hill" I usually sit normally on the bike or even a little farther forward. If I scoot back I don't have a good feel for the rear brake and I loose weight on the front wheel. I go down in low gear with the clutch in. I try to stay on top of the rutts and find as many solid rocky sections as possible. Sitting forward you should have enough traction to stop on the hill if you want to (in a spot with good traction). If you hit some sand or the front starts to wash and you have to let off the front brake, then I let the clutch out as I am standing ( with my butt just over the rear fender), let the engine take care of the rear and concentrate on the front brake and my line.

Have a plan of attack and a back-up plan. The plan does not include putting your feet down

I can lend you the Shane Watts video "Dirt Wise" It has some very good drills for practicing your braking skills.

Heart attack hill is 50% confidence, 40% skill, and 10% luck. If the confidence number is down, hope for a big luck number . Ken

[Crawdaddy 96]

Heart attack hill is 50% confidence, 40% skill, and 10% luck. If the confidence number is down, hope for a big luck number . Ken

My technique in the past has generally been to ride/slide halfway down, lock'em up, and fall over .......then walk the bike the remaining 20 yards, pull out the camera, and snap a few shots of my son riding down with relative ease.......after which I have to listen to him calling the old man a wussy boy......which makes me want to get over to Fish Creek ASAP.......I guess you could say my confidence numbers aren't that great.......I hoping for a good (high) luck number this year

[dirt dame 561]

I haven't been down Heart Attack hill, unless it's the same thing as The Slide (and I think it is). In that case, I haven't been down it for about 15 years. If I remember correctly, my technique was to get the falling down part over with at the very top before decending, where it was easy and then ride down in first gear and using the brakes and upshifting near the bottom, then finally stalling and sliding to the bottom

[PastaPilot 17]

"Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn."

Charles De Mar from "Better Off Dead"

Trailer

[Ride-Orange 2]

The one time I rode it (last year's DD) I used the method where you get off the bike at the top and look down and pick a line, then watch somebody come up and ask if it's clear while they charge over the top and crash immediately, decide not do do THAT, then ride down in low gear with the bike running and the clutch feathering, weight back, easy on the front brake, stop and balance motionless near the bottom while waffling about the rest of the line, and fall over like an idiot instead of letting the brakes loose technique.

I think I'll try something different this year

[DigDug 0]

All good advice! I stand, scoot way back so my weight is centered over my pegs, and let her roll! Very gentle front brake application - and, like mentioned above, almost nothing on the back brake - It will lock up! If it gets very steep, rough, loose, or if there's not a good runout to stop at the bottom. I do the motor off waddle - but I tend to fall more doing that rather than just letting 'er rip. It's easier to control a bike with the wheels turning than sliding.

For me, the most important thing I need to concentrate on is keeping my head up. If I look at the ground 3 feet in front of the bike - down I go. Crane your neck and look way ahead - you'll need that vision to avoid obstacles and catch your balance if you catch a rut or something on the way down. HEAD UP!!!

[Guest Hammerin Hammon]

So many different hills.

You should have rode with us yesterday. You could have learned alot.

We rode it all.

Heart atack is very easy. Stand up in what I call the attack position, light on the breaks(Front and rear)both tires are skidding but far from a ful lock up. Clutch pulled in. Keep your head up and pick your line and try to stay on it. I passed two guys on my first and only run on this hill. I had to use my brake to whip my bike from side to side, around them. You can do this by locking the back break then completely releasing it. When ever I skid the wrong direction I release the breaks and correct my direction.

Craig

[darylhunter 1]

. . . I passed two guys on my first and only run on this hill. I had to use my brake to whip my bike from side to side, around them. . .

Unless it's was a big organized event with a trophy at the end, I wouldn't attempt going down that hill with another rider (or two) stuck on the hill.

Too easy to end up running in to one or both of them with nothing to gain for the attempt. Waiting a minute or two for them to clear the path would be a wiser choice for me as I know that I'm not that good, plus I'd feel like an a$$ if I did hit them and injured them or their bike.

[Guest Hammerin Hammon]

. . . I passed two guys on my first and only run on this hill. I had to use my brake to whip my bike from side to side, around them. . .

Unless it's was a big organized event with a trophy at the end, I wouldn't attempt going down that hill with another rider (or two) stuck on the hill.

Too easy to end up running in to one or both of them with nothing to gain for the attempt. Waiting a minute or two for them to clear the path would be a wiser choice for me as I know that I'm not that good, plus I'd feel like an a$$ if I did hit them and injured them or their bike.

When have the skills, its no big deal! Surfing in crowds on big days, Snowboarding crowded slopes, raceing MX. you have to learn to carve around people. I see them as cones on a slalom coarse. They just add to the fun.

Craig.

[RogerTOWM 0]

Ok, lot of replies and good ideas on techniques to use, lets see if I have them right. I see 9 main points;

1st Brakes - You should start down slowly and try to stay slow. Use the front brake but don’t lock it up. You should also use the rear break but be very careful to avoid locking it up and sliding. Slow down when ever you can.

2nd Pick your line- Know where you want to go and keep your eyes up ahead of you. Don’t focus right in front of the tire. Stay on your line, look for solid ground, and stay out of the ruts.

3rd Clutch- Use your clutch to keep the engine running. Use compression braking and keep the rear wheel from locking up. Or feather it with the engine off and use it as a brake, but don’t lock up the rear wheel.

4th Engine- Some keep it on. Some keep it off. Both schools say use compression braking.

5th Body position- Some center the body over the back wheel. Some people say keep it forward over the front wheel to help braking traction.

6th Practice- Learn to walk using baby steps. Don’t start off with heart attack hill (Slide for dirt dame) as your first slope.

7th Fall- Suck it up and realize your are just going to fall. Let gravity have it’s way. Hope for luck.

8th Hammer it- Run like h#!! down the hill.

9th Avoidance- Go somewhere else! Then you don’t have a problem.

I will try to use 8 of these points to improve my riding skills. When I’ve got all that down, I might try point number 8 if it ever comes to it. If we disregard number 8 then I like number 7 the least and number 9 the best.

The reason I asked this question is that I would like to try the Desert Dash this year and I didn’t know how I would get down the hill. I’ve gone down this hill several times in my Jeep. It’s always a lot of fun. But that first time was a real seat pucker (you get off your seat and it is puckered up in the center from something squeezing so hard, need I say more?). Now I know the answer. I won’t get down the hill!!! I don’t know of a bypass, so how do you go around this?

[Joliet 0]

Do the dash and go down the hill. You will have become a better rider in the next 2 months. The worse case senario I see is shut your bike off at the top of the hill put it in low and walk it down using the front brake and the clutch as needed. There are always people there to help you if you need it. It will take you 2 minutes to walk it down, don't let those 2 minutes take away the experience of a 2 day ride. By then you will probably want to ride down anyway. If you only do one ride next year, make it the desert dash. Ken

[bikeslut 1]

a couple of points, based on my own trial and eror:

if your motor is off, you can't use it if you need it... whether it be deep sand at the bottom, or a wash out in the trail you couldn't see

If traction is good, lean back and use more front brake... you'd be surprised how steep you can go before endo'ing if your weight is back

If traction is bad, center yourself a little more... if you lean back, your front end will not grab at all

Don't negotiate your way around slower/less experienced riders... I've found this out the hard way surfing, snowboarding and motorcycling. Just because YOU have the skills, doesn't mean you have ANY idea what somebody else will do... On an MX track, you can assume alll of the riders have a certin level of expertise; not so on Pinyon Dropoff... that hill is on every AAA map, and Anza Borrego Map.... every 4x4 book of the region. If you pass a newb, freak him out, and HE dumps it, that's kind of your fault... let him ride the hill at his pace.

If you fall, fall "uphill" of your bike, not "downhill" those things are hard and heavy

and ride with others... if you are in a group and everybody else does a hill, you can watch them, and their style... If half the peope don't want to even try it, find a way around... go back next year... it's not going anywhere, and you'll be better each year.

[SCHWINN 0]

. . . I passed two guys on my first and only run on this hill. I had to use my brake to whip my bike from side to side, around them. . .

Unless it's was a big organized event with a trophy at the end, I wouldn't attempt going down that hill with another rider (or two) stuck on the hill.

Too easy to end up running in to one or both of them with nothing to gain for the attempt. Waiting a minute or two for them to clear the path would be a wiser choice for me as I know that I'm not that good, plus I'd feel like an a$$ if I did hit them and injured them or their bike.

When have the skills, its no big deal! Surfing in crowds on big days, Snowboarding crowded slopes, raceing MX. you have to learn to carve around people. I see them as cones on a slalom coarse. They just add to the fun.

Craig.

Once again you missed the point, the riders you are passing in that technical situation may not of been in a comfotable situation. In surfing you would call that a SNAKE, SHOULDER HOPPER, KOOK.

[bikeslut 1]

yeah... what schwinn said...

[ADV Bum 205]

I am tall with a high center of gravity. My technique is to get my arse over the rear fender. I try to not use the front brake, as I have found (especially in sand) that it is very easy to lock up, and then you go down. I would rather lock the rear, pull in the clutch and slide the back end. I have recently put powerpegz on. These have helped tremendously. They will pivot, so when going down steep hills(or up) you can shift you weight back and your feet will keep in full contact with the flat face of the peg. Also makes it easier to rotate your foot while on the peg to activate your rear brake.

[DigDug 0]

When have the skills, its no big deal! Surfing in crowds on big days, Snowboarding crowded slopes, raceing MX. you have to learn to carve around people. I see them as cones on a slalom coarse. They just add to the fun.

Yeah Craig, you never run into anyone!!!

http://www.dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.p...ost&p=10710

Just messing with ya man...

[Guest Hammerin Hammon]

yeah... what schwinn said...

If you cant pass people I want my fn. money back. I will never ride this event again. If you cant pass you will never finish. Whatever.

Craig.

[cardiffchris 0]

regear your bike so you have a super low first gear.

makes it easier to crawl down things, and crawl back up.

[darylhunter 1]

Nothing wrong with passing people when it's safe to do so . . .

[ADV Bum 205]

Nothing wrong with passing people when it's safe to do so . . .

Can even give them a little roosting, as long as you know them, and its safe!

[RogerTOWM 0]

Don't negotiate your way around slower/less experienced riders... I've found this out the hard way surfing, snowboarding and motorcycling. Just because YOU have the skills, doesn't mean you have ANY idea what somebody else will do... On an MX track, you can assume alll of the riders have a certin level of expertise; not so on Pinyon Dropoff... that hill is on every AAA map, and Anza Borrego Map.... every 4x4 book of the region. If you pass a newb, freak him out, and HE dumps it, that's kind of your fault... let him ride the hill at his pace.

Bikeslut, this is very good advice. I have a friend whose wife has a mangled hand because of 2 bikes doing something like this. We were at Big Bear going up a waterfall with jeeps. This guy is a very experienced off road driver. One of the best I’ve every seen (and I know some professionals). Everything was clear when he started going up. Jeeps go up something like this by crawling up. But once you start you don’t stop because you will roll it end over end.

Two guys on MX bikes came up and decided to shoot up past him instead of waiting 20 seconds. They shot up next to him and then ran into trouble. One of the bikes bounced right in front of him and fell. If he had continued he would have ran over the motorcycle rider.

Not wishing to kill the guy Mike had to slam his brakes on. This unloaded the suspension and caused the jeep to flip over. Mike had five point restraints and hand grips welded onto his roll cage. His wife instinctually reached out and wrapped her hand around the handgrips. It was the rollcage and not the grips that she got. The Jeep rolled over her hand crushing and nearly severing her fingers. The guys on the bikes then got up and ran off. They didn’t stick around to help or even say sorry.

Again all the jeeps were letting these guys by so they would not be held up. But they had to pass on an obstacle trying to show off their skills. I’m sure that they did not intend to maim Mike’s wife, but their thoughtless actions did just that. So I don’t think that it is COOL to try and negotiate your way around slower people on an obstacle. Just wait a minute for the open areas. There is no reason to be a “donkey”. You will always find times to pass.

Craig, I’ve met you and know that you are a nice guy. I look forward to riding with you again. Sometimes your humor is misread. I think that is happening with this discussion.

[Guest Hammerin Hammon]

Don't negotiate your way around slower/less experienced riders... I've found this out the hard way surfing, snowboarding and motorcycling. Just because YOU have the skills, doesn't mean you have ANY idea what somebody else will do... On an MX track, you can assume alll of the riders have a certin level of expertise; not so on Pinyon Dropoff... that hill is on every AAA map, and Anza Borrego Map.... every 4x4 book of the region. If you pass a newb, freak him out, and HE dumps it, that's kind of your fault... let him ride the hill at his pace.

Bikeslut, this is very good advice. I have a friend whose wife has a mangled hand because of 2 bikes doing something like this. We were at Big Bear going up a waterfall with jeeps. This guy is a very experienced off road driver. One of the best I’ve every seen (and I know some professionals). Everything was clear when he started going up. Jeeps go up something like this by crawling up. But once you start you don’t stop because you will roll it end over end.

Two guys on MX bikes came up and decided to shoot up past him instead of waiting 20 seconds. They shot up next to him and then ran into trouble. One of the bikes bounced right in front of him and fell. If he had continued he would have ran over the motorcycle rider.

Not wishing to kill the guy Mike had to slam his brakes on. This unloaded the suspension and caused the jeep to flip over. Mike had five point restraints and hand grips welded onto his roll cage. His wife instinctually reached out and wrapped her hand around the handgrips. It was the rollcage and not the grips that she got. The Jeep rolled over her hand crushing and nearly severing her fingers. The guys on the bikes then got up and ran off. They didn’t stick around to help or even say sorry.

Again all the jeeps were letting these guys by so they would not be held up. But they had to pass on an obstacle trying to show off their skills. I’m sure that they did not intend to maim Mike’s wife, but their thoughtless actions did just that. So I don’t think that it is COOL to try and negotiate your way around slower people on an obstacle. Just wait a minute for the open areas. There is no reason to be a “donkey”. You will always find times to pass.

Craig, I’ve met you and know that you are a nice guy. I look forward to riding with you again. Sometimes your humor is misread. I think that is happening with this discussion.

What I did was safe. I was LOL. going down that hill. I couldnt beleave how easy it was. Daryl had told me how hard it was. I have no problem passing people safely on much harder hills.

I now realize I need to be more choosy about who I ride with. I have had some close calls and been forced to crash to avoid someone who couldnt ride.

I dont think I want to ride with any more.

CRAIG.