Dan Diego 40 Posted August 13, 2014 I agree with the kudos for Brad. The guy knows what he's doing. Super cool and reasonably priced for the "frugal" among us... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vacman 0 Posted August 16, 2014 Another happy Spaugh customer! Picked up my refreshed suspension from him this morning and I'm looking forward to getting them back on the bike and everything back together for the first time in I don't know how long. I'm also looking forward to riding the bike with a functioning front suspension. We have two awesome options here on SDAR, that's for sure. Thanks for all your help and advice Brad! Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poboyblues 0 Posted August 19, 2014 This is really cool. Tim, we need to test those KTM suspenders! Spaugh, do you do BMWs, too? I am sure my GS needs oil changed on both ends, and servicing as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaugh 1 Posted August 19, 2014 I can do Ohlins shocks if that is what your GS has. Forks are not a problem. The shocks are more specific to having the correct tools and adapters for the vacuum bleeding machine. I can actually do any shock with the right adapters, just haven't made the investment for any stuff other than what I ride. So I am mostly focused on WP and Ohlins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poboyblues 0 Posted August 19, 2014 I'm not sure, but I will check it out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaugh 1 Posted August 22, 2014 Did an SDAR member's forks today. He said they were leaking all over and felt "like all spring and no oil". Took them apart and found that the previous tuners had way overfilled the oil and had used the preload adjusters to torque the forks back together! They were not low on oil, they had too much which means too small of an air cavity, which means harsh forks and the preload adjusters were torqued full preload and were stuck there! And they mixed and matched seal brands. Used cheap oil seals and nice SKF dust seals. Very surprising a shop would do this. Definitely worth it to take your stuff to someone who specializes in your brand. These forks are going to be MUCHO better. Leaky seals come out New stuff going in Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoss314 0 Posted August 22, 2014 I like how you "blacked out" the decal on my forks where the shotty work was performed Those decals are the first thing coming off when I get them back from you! Thanks for the extra effort..... Take note guys and gals....pays to send your suspension to somebody that knows your suspension. Shop I took it to used to be a reputable operation. Looks like I will need to remove my shock soon....hope the same shotty work was not done in my shock as well! Really bums me out cause I could have ridden an extra day in Bass Lake last month! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaugh 1 Posted August 22, 2014 For the shocks, especially the wp PDS shocks that come on the dual sport models and all older ktms, they need to vacuum bled to get the air out from under the 2nd damping piston. I don't believe any of the local shops have this equipment. Ive got one and can get the shocks perfect everytime. You can tell if it wasnt bled right when you open them, air and foam comes out like a shaken soda can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crawdaddy 96 Posted August 22, 2014 Really bums me out cause I could have ridden an extra day in Bass Lake last month! It's ok Mike, the riding on Sunday sucked I should get my forks over to Brad too.......~250 hrs on the 350 and ~550hrs on the 300 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoss314 0 Posted August 22, 2014 Really bums me out cause I could have ridden an extra day in Bass Lake last month! It's ok Mike, the riding on Sunday sucked I should get my forks over to Brad too.......~250 hrs on the 350 and ~550hrs on the 300 Thanks Jerk! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted August 27, 2014 I have some of those "black label" forks (KYB) on a bike of mine. Keep up the good work Spaugh! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suspenders 43 Posted August 28, 2014 Spaugh I debated posting but I had to in the name of clarity. You know Spaugh I applaud the fact that you are taking care of your customers, and as we have communicated if you are ever in need, parts or anything feel free to give a call and I will have your back. But I gotta call you out, regarding this statement; "For the shocks, especially the wp PDS shocks that come on the dual sport models and all older ktms, they need to vacuum bled to get the air out from under the 2nd damping piston. I don't believe any of the local shops have this equipment. Ive got one and can get the shocks perfect everytime. You can tell if it wasnt bled right when you open them, air and foam comes out like a shaken soda can." This is simply not true. Yes it is neat and can save time? but does not bleed a shock any better than a hand bleed. Some of the top tuners in the nation do not use a vacuum bleeder. Tuners that are placing in top level motocross. The PDS bleeds like any other shock when done properly. I spent 2k on a coil rating machine and I could just as easily spent it on a vacuum bleeder. I know you sell them and again that is really cool as I may be a customer some day. Example: My teacher a suspension engineer has (2) types of dynos (1) custom made suspension flow bench, the only one I have ever seen. GET data acquisition and that scratches the surface. What he does not have is a vacuum bleeder. That being said, seals, both shock and fork ingest air. Forks are readily apparent with the bleeder valves many have. But the shock ingests air also. If the seal is beginning to fail many times they will ingest air long before they start to leak. This may or may not be the foaming you mentioned. I have also seen leaky bladders allowing the nitro out or air in and frothing the fluid. It is not always a bad bleed. I know there are some that simply do not care to do quality work like we do. That is why they lose business as we grow business! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaugh 1 Posted August 30, 2014 George, I will take the pepsi challenge any day! Doing shocks by hand is barbaric! Do you hit it with a hammer too? Haha! The Amish would certainly approve. Just ribbing you Sir. Nothing I posted earlier was directed at you or your company just so you know. And we can certainly agree to disagree on the merits of using "power tools" to service suspension. My take - hand bleeding shocks that have a single piston in them is not too difficult to get right. Still a pain in the ass, time consuming and messy, but can be done with decent results. Dual piston PDS shocks are are harder to get right. Can it be done with the same results? Maybe, but it certainly is a lot harder to get all of the air out of there. I will keep using my vacuum shockbleeder as it is consistent, fast, no spilled oil, and no trapped air. Every time. Gives me 100% confidence and more time to kick back and enjoy life. People are not using these machines because they are "neat", they give a superior end result. And that is where I think there is a disagreement. Which is OK to me. That is my opinion and it isn't worth all that much. As far as the top race teams doing "hand jobs", KTM / WP are delivering shocks from the factory that are vacuum bled. And anyone with WP factory race support is getting their stuff done with a vacuum machine. I wouldn't be surprised if KYB and Showa are also delivering vacuum bled shocks from the factory. Here is the machine WP uses. Same for factory Ohlins. and this one and this one and this one and there are many more out there... About air air being pulled into a shock via the main shaft seal, that doesn't make a lot sense to me. Not sure why air would get pulled across a seal that has 150psi of positive pressure behind it. Why does the air cross the seal? To get to the other side? I am an engineer and do dirtbiking/suspension work as a side gig / hobby. So these discussions are mostly academic to me. With that, I'm off to have my Friday beers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suspenders 43 Posted August 31, 2014 Wow Spaugh pretty deep ribbing. So since your response is more on the order of antagonism, not constructive conversation, I will not go into great detail. Make a couple of key points and will not respond further. 1. It is common knowledge in racing circles that shocks from the factory are poorly bled. 2. Vacuum bleeders many times suck in as much air as they pull out. Put enough vacuum on a seal designed to keep product in, but not out, air will flow past the shock shaft seal, and or the O-Ring on the OD of the seal head. If using a port other than the bladder, add the bladder to the equation. It looks like you are evacuating air but in reality you are passing air. 3. In addition an air bubble in a vacuum expands exponentially so it looks like you are pulling much more air out than you actually are. So it looks very impressive. 4. Each time a hydraulic ram is cycled a minute amount of oil is lost and a minute amount of air is ingested. The ram itself has imperfections unseen by the naked eye that allow the transfer. 5. Air that may be trapped for instance in the exchange valve, a vacuum will not pull it out any more than a hand bleed will. Although there are some steps that can be taken. 6. On the matter of pump vs. hand, both sides are technically viable. And both come with their pros and cons. And to be honest with you, neither one is perfect…and if the ideal bleed was something we even needed, (which we don’t) we would not consider either of these two processes. In short, the only way to build an assembly as complex as a shock (PDS or not) is full submission during assembly in a containment completely void of any gases. While in a meeting handling details in the formation of a new company I brought up your post as an example to learn from. It is important to respond to those such as yourself in a professional manner and the results were quite positive. The sop consensus follows; We will be composing very specific written “white papers” on each of several topics. We will post them when these situations arise. That way we address the technical side of things, and we properly represent ourselves. The debate between one process verses the other is very complex. It’s interesting and educational, but very complex. To explain all the details and note the complexities of how it applies to different shock designs, this will be at least a three to five page document with some key illustrations. In other words, you can’t debate things that are of this complexity with he-said she-said posts, mixed in with personal insults. It goes nowhere. Thank you Spaugh, A few of my customers are aware of what we have been building. I am going to start another shameless post giving some details of the company we are forming with some details of the future of motorcycle suspension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaugh 1 Posted September 1, 2014 George, I think you are taking my post way more seriously than you should. I am sincerely happy for you and wish you nothing but success in your en devours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
