USFS Park Ranger Authority

[Socaldualer 0]

I looked into the SDAR history and found some vague references, just looking for some good leads on what authority park rangers have-Federal(USFS) not state.

I dont use Wikipedia for obvious reasons and im looking for actual-not anecdotal-facts. There has to be some document outlining what their authority is.

I know every situation is unique and the devil is in the details but does anyone have some good fact based resources?

Planning ahead for the inevitable conflict...

[Uncle Champ 116]

The ones I know have all the powers of other police, so do border patrol also. They are federal police officers.

[Mikey777 44]

Uncle Champ is correct.  They are federal LEO's.  They carry firearms and have the power to ticket and arrest. They are often involved in multi-agency task forces when federal, USFS land is involved such as drug growing, drug and human trafficking, etc. They are involved in arson investigations, patrol OHV areas and rec areas, guard against illegal shooting/hunting, and up north where they actually have trees, a big part of their job is prosecuting illegal timber take. 

They are not Park Rangers.  That is the National Park Service or State Park.  "Parkies" are like gestapo in my experience.  Most of the USFS LEO's are more laid back. USFS generally is big on "multiple use" and like to see us out there assuming we follow the rules and tread lightly.

I am a former USFS employee, so this is not anecdotal bs.

http://www.fs.fed.us/lei/

 

[TrophyHunter 15]

As M777 said, FED powers - so for FED stuff. Unless they're cross sworn as a State officer/deputy, they cannot write for CA regulations.

All of the task forces I was on, everyone was cross sworn for each others jurisdictions. All CA State LEO's are good in the entire state. I was cross sworn as a US Marshal so I could go nationwide and the FBI guys were SD Deputy Sheriff's so they could serve state search warrants.

There are some interesting areas in SD, so if you do get a ticket or whatever, check everything and where exactly you were when it happened.

[Socaldualer 0]

Great stuff gentlemen-i really appreciate the insight. Im a laid back basically rule following kind of guy but ive run into some of the Parkies with the attitude you mentioned M777.

I just want to be armed with the facts in case any of my run ins should escalate.

Great link thank you M777 and Uncle Champ.

[Mikey777 44]

11 hours ago, TrophyHunter said:

All CA State LEO's are good in the entire state.

Ken:

I am very pro LEO.  And my comment about Parkies was a broad brush.  

To put my comment into perspective, I have had several bad experiences with California State Park LEO's in Anza Borrego State Park as a Boy Scout leader.  We've been threatened with arrest more than once for minor misunderstandings (ie. how parked in campgrounds, reserving camp grounds (told we engaged in fraud), etc..  All ridiculous stuff, especially when you look at who we were and what we were trying to accomplish, not some hoodlem gang bangers.  

I have had some good experiences too.  Some of the State Park LEO's who patrol some of the back areas have been very helpful, including last year at the Dash.

[Socaldualer 0]

The ones i have met on trails so far have been generally very cool, the ranger for the Trabuco District here in the OC i have not met but have spoken to on the phone and after i got nowhere being congenial when discussing closed gates i changed my tact to being what he most likely thought of as an asshole.

It happens, but i tire of some of the attitude of certain individuals whose anti moto sentiment is veiled at best and when they discover your are of the moto ilk they are not shy about revealing their true colors.

No worries i work around it and id rather encounter an idiot on the phone than on the trails....

Ive been known to bend the rules here and there but again im an easy going mellow rider and do my best to avoid conflict. Im currently exploring an area that may or may not be completely legal so just arming myself with the facts. 

[Mikey777 44]

Go into any encounter with an LEO with a positive attitude. You often get back what you give.  I have been let go with many a warning using this technique, even when I made the mistake.     

[Socaldualer 0]

2 hours ago, Mikey777 said:

Go into any encounter with an LEO with a positive attitude. You often get back what you give.  I have been let go with many a warning using this technique, even when I made the mistake.     

Bingo....

[Spyder 2]

20 hours ago, Socaldualer said:

 

I know every situation is unique and the devil is in the details but does anyone have some good fact based resources?

Planning ahead for the inevitable conflict...

If you want a LONG read, try this. Not sure what it is exactly you are looking for.  But,  it gives some insight to the overwhelming bureaucracy involved in the US Forest Circus Service and our court systems. Yes, the devil is in the details.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/an-experience-with-federal-law-enforcement.1138024/#post-29208755

OP has since passed, sadly. Good guy. Missed.

S

 

[Socaldualer 0]

5 minutes ago, Spyder said:

If you want a LONG read, try this. Not sure what it is exactly you are looking for.  But,  it gives some insight to the overwhelming bureaucracy involved in the US Forest Circus Service and our court systems. Yes, the devil is in the details.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/an-experience-with-federal-law-enforcement.1138024/#post-29208755

OP has since passed, sadly. Good guy. Missed.

S

 

Thanks i will check it out Spyder!

[TrophyHunter 15]

Mike - by "good", I meant "their LEO certification is valid throughout the state", so a SDPD cop can write a ticket or arrest someone in San Fran. Some think the certification stops at the city limits. It was in the context of jurisdiction.

I've been told "you can't write me a ticket on the freeway, you're not CHP." 

I know where you stand.

I've worked with some not so good LEO's.

[Bagstr 287]

    It helps a good deal if you are following the rules and staying on the trail. I have had nothing but cordial relations with staff in Anza Borrego. If a guy wants to treat it like an Open Riding area, the park will be ruined along with your relationship with the staff.  Ranger Don Strampler has been nothing but helpful and considerate for example.

   Bagstr

Also,  It may be that much of the so called bureaucracy was created to deal with clever fellows circumventing  the intent of the laws that were passed to protect the public interest.

[amgems 79]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 5:54 PM, Socaldualer said:

I looked into the SDAR history and found some vague references, just looking for some good leads on what authority park rangers have-Federal(USFS) not state.

I dont use Wikipedia for obvious reasons and im looking for actual-not anecdotal-facts. There has to be some document outlining what their authority is.

I know every situation is unique and the devil is in the details but does anyone have some good fact based resources?

Planning ahead for the inevitable conflict...

I'm just curious about your not using Wikipedia?

Obviously not obvious to me.

[Socaldualer 0]

36 minutes ago, amgems said:

I'm just curious about your not using Wikipedia?

Obviously not obvious to me.

Its known as the Peoples Encyclopedia-often wrong-anyone can contribute-very little if any fact checking.

In context-a rabid Sierra Club member who hates motorcycles can hop on and inject their opinion-quote false research or just flat make stuff up. Its not trustable, and too many use it for research thinking its factual. Its also very anecdotal. I was looking for actual documentation.

[Socaldualer 0]

1 hour ago, Bagstr said:

    It helps a good deal if you are following the rules and staying on the trail. I have had nothing but cordial relations with staff in Anza Borrego. If a guy wants to treat it like an Open Riding area, the park will be ruined along with your relationship with the staff.  Ranger Don Strampler has been nothing but helpful and considerate for example.

   Bagstr

Also,  It may be that much of the so called bureaucracy was created to deal with clever fellows circumventing  the intent of the laws that were passed to protect the public interest.

Well duh...

So called Bureaucracy?.... 

Im not a super skilled rider so i do pretty much stay on the straight and narrow but lets face it-millions of acres of rideable land have been confiscated by Special interests who sole mission is to keep the land from the public interest. This point is in-arguable.

Land that was Free ride has suddenly changed overnight to super sacred-cant be touched-we know better than you-what are you going to do about it- we just turned it into hiking only because we got a big donation from this" Public Interest" group-Land.

Us clever fellows i guess are just tired of the so called bureaucracy so called trying to protect our so called interests...

 

 

[dirt dame 559]

25 minutes ago, Socaldualer said:

Im not a super skilled rider so i do pretty much stay on the straight and narrow but lets face it-millions of acres of rideable land have been confiscated by Special interests who sole mission is to keep the land from the public interest. This point is in-arguable.

 

 

 

Special interest groups?  You mean the Federal government?

[Socaldualer 0]

32 minutes ago, dirt dame said:

Special interest groups?  You mean the Federal government?

Right!?