KTM spring check front forks

[Beezzz 6]

I am having a specialty shop check and adjust my '02 400 exc front shocks. They claim that they have to rebuilt the entire shock system (oil, seals, fork service, etc.) to remove and check the springs and/or replace the springs. Does that sound right? One SDAR member says that removing the top cap will allow inspection and/or replacement of the springs. That sounds right to me. Even after stating this opinion to them. They disagree.

What do you think?

[bikeslut 1]

assuming they are similar to a WR450F spring, you could remove the springs without removing the forks from the bike

as for the shops point of view; maybe THEY won't do it, regardless whether it is possible or not

[dirt dame 559]

The EXC models, at least the older ones have open cartridge model forks, so yes those can be checked on the bike. Any model with full enclosed cartridges are another story. You will know right away whether your forks are open or closed style. If you remove the caps and just springs and the rods show, it's open cartridges, If the cap looks like it's attached to a big metal cylinder about five or six inches long, then it's a full enclosed cartridge system. Unless somebody put different forks on that old EXC400, it will be an open cartrtidge setup. Whereas the 06 KX250 you have has fully enclosed cartrtidges.

I think your specialty shop wants to make sure that you are not properly educated so that they can get all the money out of you that they can....and that sounds rather familiar....

[Beezzz 6]

Called the shop. First the front office said the springs can't physically be inspected or changed without an entire rebuilt. Now, they say it is company policy to rebuild entirely only. Upon inspection, they say the seals are "cheap" and tend to cause binding problems. Which I was complaining about. Hard to imagine, but ?, I'm no expert. I'll keep you posted. Very convincing tone and comments in the front office even if the comments are unreliable. Day 1 said the forks were disassembled. Day 2 said they had not started yet. It feels like it is snowing in SD. I will keep you posted.

[DigDug 0]

When was the last time the seals and oil were changed on those forks? If it's been since '02, they were probably long overdue anyways.

I agree though, kind of frustrating to find out about it only after they already have your bike in there and not when you called to ask "How much is this going to cost me?"

Out of curiositiy how much are we talking here?

[Beezzz 6]

With new seals, oil, spring change, service: $280.00 + tax.

I know the history of the bike. Brad's wife bike. Oil and seals are fresh. I am questioning the comment that the "seals are "cheap" and are known to bind." Brad may comment on that.

In the end, I am sure the product will be great.

A little unnecessarily bumpy ride getting there.

[daijones 0]

When was the last time the seals and oil were changed on those forks? If it's been since '02, they were probably long overdue anyways.

I agree though, kind of frustrating to find out about it only after they already have your bike in there and not when you called to ask "How much is this going to cost me?"

Out of curiositiy how much are we talking here?

Sounds like an attitude problem in front office, and communication problem all around. As said KTM WP forks of that vintage are open cartridge and springs can be easily changed without taking forks off bike. That been said if I was doing this unless oil had been changed within last say 20 hours I wouldn't change springs without changing the oil also, and to do that you need to remove forks from bike, 5 minute job. And if you have forks off and have flushed oil then you want to clean dust seals anyway, and if doing this you may aswell pull forks apart and put in new seals. And while doing this I would check bushes for wear as they will most likely need replacing also. Not a big or difficult job with right tools but they should have told you up front, I also have to wonder what "adjustments" they will be really be making??

[Beezzz 6]

Thanks Daijones. I think you are on target.

[dirt dame 559]

Sounds like an attitude problem in front office

Sounds JUST like a shop I went to ONE time and never went back to again, or would ever recommend to anybody.

[Beezzz 6]

Anyone want to trade my current front fork springs 38 (light weight rider) for the standard stock size 42 (160-180 lbs) that is being recommended for my wife's weight (165 lbs) and riding style (beginner, street & fireroads)?

Is spring rate (weight of rider) completely separate from riding style?

[Spaugh 1]

My wife weighs 115lbs. When we bought the bike, we got her softer springs, the softest ones we could find. I believe the springs we put in that bike were .38 in the forks and 66-86 progressive rear spring (may double check that rear spring rate). This is the "low" end of ktm's spring chart shown in the owners manual, and the softest springs they offer. It is probably sprung well for someone around 140-150lbs with riding gear. Now that would be for someone who is going to do more than casual dual sporting and would have the correct sag on the bike. For your situation, the springs are on the soft side for your wife but unless she is bottoming out the suspension, in my opinion, it is going to be more enjoyable for her that way. If you put in the correct springs for her, which would be more like .42\.44 and a 76-96 progressive rear, she is not going to be able to put her feet down and most likely will be turned off by the tall aggressive feel of the bike. I would say let her ride it soft like that until she feels it is under sprung. It still has to have much more suspension travel than the ttr225 or similar bike she is coming off of.

As for history on the forks. I changed the fork oil and seals as needed. I always used moose triple lip seals and maxima racing 5wt blue oil. If those are "cheap" ok, they work fine for me. And I'm willing to wager the forks didn't feel like they had any stiction when they were off the bike. My best guess is any "sticky" feeling you experience is because either the bushings are shot or the axle needs realignment. The bushings in the forks have a teflon coating that wears. I had never replaced them on that bike so they may need it. The other thing that may cause a sticky feeling is the fact that you have the softest springs available in there. They are sort of "limp". So when you push on them and nothing happens on rebound it's partially because they are so soft. Another thing could be the forks just need a little more preload in them. The problem is you can not test suspension in your garage. You need to take the bike out on the trail and ride it and put zip ties on the fork legs and see how much travel you are using.

Regarding the suspension shop, their position is most likely that they don't want to work on forks unless they put new oil and seals in them. You could come back to them next week and say "my forks are leaking, its your fault" and that may or may not have been the case. If they put new seals and oil in at least they know that those items are taken care of for sure. As far as having them "inspect and replace the springs" goes, I don't know what they are going to be looking for??? They are .38 43mm WP springs. I promise they are in there. What springs are they going to put in there instead and what was their logic for changing springs? Did you tell them you want harder suspension? Are you sure of what you are expecting from them? Does your wife know what she wants to be different in the suspension?

Bottom line is your wife is still a beginner. In my opinion, the suspension and motor on that bike is more than she will ever need. So you guys need to figure out exactly what you are wanting to change before spending money on it. Its a used bike, if the forks aren't leaking, she should be out riding it and getting acquainted with it. Then decide where it is lacking or needing refinement.

Please keep us posted. I don't know what else I can do other than offer my best advice which is go ride that thing and stop putting more $ into it.

[paulmbowers 236]

Anyone want to trade my current front fork springs 38 (light weight rider) for the standard stock size 42 (160-180 lbs) that is being recommended for my wife's weight (165 lbs) and riding style (beginner, street & fireroads)?

Is spring rate (weight of rider) completely separate from riding style?

I have the stock springs I'll give to you.

I think.

Somewhere.

[Spaugh 1]

by the way, I have a set of nearly new front forks that came on my 380. They are 43mm grey forks just like the ones on the 400. Stock spring rate, internals should all be good, bushings etc. they have some discoloration on the fork body, it looks like a bleach stain on them? They need new seals and oil and thats it other than the discoloration on the tubes. I will sell them very cheap to you if you want them, I will not be using them.

If you do decide you want harder suspension, you need to put the matching rear spring on or the bike will be like a chopper. The bike will not handle correctly otherwise.

[Spaugh 1]

Anyone want to trade my current front fork springs 38 (light weight rider) for the standard stock size 42 (160-180 lbs) that is being recommended for my wife's weight (165 lbs) and riding style (beginner, street & fireroads)?

Is spring rate (weight of rider) completely separate from riding style?

I have the stock springs I'll give to you.

I think.

Somewhere.

your bike has the larger 48mm forks.

[paulmbowers 236]

Ah, right, mine's an 03.

I say go ride the thing. And when you're done, ride it some more. If the bike came from Spaugh, it's probably totally and completely perfect. He's worse than I am about this stuff.

[Beezzz 6]

" My best guess is any "sticky" feeling you experience is because either the bushings are shot or the axle needs realignment."

The shop called and said the bushings are good. That leaves that sticky feeling to be "axle needs realignment."

What is going on with this situation (axle realignment)?

The shop says it was "binding seals".

The forks had trouble compressing and rebounding. Whether on the road or in the garage the shocks bound while working. I have a xt225 and enjoy its soft suspension in additon to 4 other standard dirt bikes that have forks that compress and rebound freely. With soft or hard suspensions the bikes freely respond in both directions.

If I need to change the spring in the rear, I will look into it. I do want to balance the bike for my wife. Hey, I will be riding it a lot also. Its a great bike. Soft suspension bikes are fun.

The shop recommends standard springs for her weight only, not her riding style.

[Spaugh 1]

I really hope they got it fixed for you.

for aligning the axle, you need to:

0.) mount wheel and greased axle into wheel but do not tighten axle nut or clamp bolts. be sure to push the axle all the way in before proceeding to step 1.

1.) tighten clamp bolts opposite the axle nut side

2.) tighten axle nut

3.) loosen the clamp bolts from step 1

4.) tighten the clamp bolts on the axle nut end

5.) push up and down on the forks

6.) repeat step 1

7.) done

hopefully i got those steps in the right order.

the side of the axle that does not have the nut on it is wider and is supposed to move in and out of that fork so that you get the forks parallel with one another. try getting up to step 5 and wiggle the fork with the loose clamp bolts and you will see what I'm talking about.

they may cover this in the manual. maybe someone else can double check my steps as I'm not 100% I got that right.

[Beezzz 6]

Thanks. That's clear.

[Papa Smurf 0]

The spring rating is a combination of weight of rider and style of rider. Both are equally important in my opinion.