Mexico Legalizes Drug Possession

[Strega 0]

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico enacted a controversial law on Thursday decriminalizing possession of small amounts of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs while encouraging government-financed treatment for drug dependency free of charge.

The law sets out maximum “personal use” amounts for drugs, also including LSD and methamphetamine. People detained with those quantities will no longer face criminal prosecution; the law goes into effect on Friday.

SOURCE

[cardiffchris 0]

Awesome, Governments shouldn't legislate morality.

[bikeslut 1]

Awesome, Governments shouldn't legislate morality.

I get your point, but "recreational drugs" have a way of impacting EVERYONE... you can't trust each person to responsibly do anything

The drugs will be there anyway, I guess... just carry less with you?

I don't have an answer, but can't imagine that ANY possession of heroin, no matter how small amount, is a good idea... of course, I've never tried heroin, so what do i know?

[darylhunter 1]

Just as with alcohol, the criminalization of drugs has led to a much greater negative crime impact on society than what the effects of using the banned substance would likely have done.

Thanks to Crawdaddy for this pic

We'd be much better of decriminalizing drug use here in this country and spending the money currently spent on interdiction on education, prevention, and rehab.

That is not say that people shouldn't be held accountable for their use of drugs. Driving and other activities under the influence should be heavily penalized - think caning on the first occurance

[ShocknAwe 0]

"Governments shouldn't legislate morality." Agreed.

[RogerTOWM 0]

"Governments shouldn't legislate morality." Agreed.

Murder is just a moral choice. As is theft. All laws are morality being legislated. Drugs were once legal in this country. Check out the history and find out why they were made illegal.

[Tree 0]

"Governments shouldn't legislate morality." Agreed.

Murder is just a moral choice. As is theft. All laws are morality being legislated. Drugs were once legal in this country. Check out the history and find out why they were made illegal.

Not a good argument from my point, as murder and theft are perpitrated against another person against his will. Drugs on the other hand, harm only the person willing to take them. It can lead to crimes against other people but those are seperate crimes in themself. I'm in no way am condoning drug use but I think the theory behind this was to keep law enforcement in Mexico from extorting money from otherwise law abidding citizens when there are bigger issues that need to be addressed.

[bikeslut 1]

Legalizing drug use won't stop law enforcement from extorting money from mostly law abiding people...mexico's government is too screwed up to do anything right...don't get me wrong; I love the land, and the 99% gracious and kind people...

You are right about one thing Duane; Mexico is better served going after the big fish...the ones undermining the whole country; drugs are just part of the business...legalizing them, though, just helps keep the cartels IN business

My personal thoughts? Weed? Ok...I view it much like alcohol...is it a "gateway drug"? Probably...but so is alcohol.

I think toad licking should be totally legal

[RogerTOWM 0]

Not a good argument from my point, as murder and theft are perpitrated against another person against his will. Drugs on the other hand, harm only the person willing to take them. It can lead to crimes against other people but those are seperate crimes in themself. I'm in no way am condoning drug use but I think the theory behind this was to keep law enforcement in Mexico from extorting money from otherwise law abidding citizens when there are bigger issues that need to be addressed.

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow about 18 years ago. He showed me the tracks on his arms and asked me if I knew what he had put into them. Having spent the prior 2 years looking at heroin addicts I recognize them right off as injection marks from dirty heroin needles. So I told him he had put heroin into his arms.

He set me straight on that. He informed me he had put two wives, three houses and his children through those injection marks. So drugs only harm the people taking the drugs? Sorry I have to disagree. I have seen too much to buy that story.

All laws are society making moral decisions. Again look into the history of drug laws sometime. Legalizing small amounts of drug possession will not stop graft.

I wish I had the answer to these problems but I do not. I didn’t know what to say to the young woman dying of aids because she had become a prostitute to support her heroin habit. I didn’t know what to say to a friend who is taking care of his grandchild because his daughter and her husband are addicts and they can’t care for the child. Did I mention the child was born blind? No victim there!

I don’t know what to say to you when you tell me using drugs is a victimless crime. I can only say my experiences have taught me otherwise and that I disagree with you.

I wish the best for Mexico but I have seen what has happened to other countries who have tried this and it is not pretty. The city of Amsterdam is thinking about changing their laws on drugs again.

[City Slicker 0]

Very well said KLRoger.

In addition, we are all victims as tax payers when we have to pay for emergency room services, homeless services, rehabilitation services, child protective services, and other services that suck money out of the public coffers that could go to pay for more positive things like...recreational areas.

[Tree 0]

Very well said KLRoger.

In addition, we are all victims as tax payers when we have to pay for emergency room services, homeless services, rehabilitation services, child protective services, and other services that suck money out of the public coffers that could go to pay for more positive things like...recreational areas.

Who do you think pays for the war on drugs? More of your tax money goes to enforcement and punishment of the drug laws then those things you mentioned. I don't want my money going to a war that cannot be won (the war on drugs). We would be better served with spending that money on education and rehabilitation. If it was legal at least the goverment could make money from it through taxation such as they do for alcohol and tabaco. If the goverment controled and regulated the flow of drugs do you think the individual cartels would still be in business? Obviously the laws didn't stop the heroin user Roger mentioned maybe he would have been better servered with access to a rehabilitation clinic. Anyone with a predisposition towards addiction whatever it may be needs help to prevent the downward spiral. Do you think they care about what laws are in place? That being said I would have a hard time voting to legalize heroin. It would be hard to know where to draw the line. I don't know if legalization is the answer but I know the current system doesn't work. And I have a hard time with the government controling my individual freedoms.

I do enjoy some barley pops and a mixed drink every now and then but I am not an illegal drug user. I have tried some things in my younger days but I get more of a thrill out of every day life then wanting to walk around in a permanant stupor. Also the health risks are not worth it to me.

[ShocknAwe 0]

"Governments shouldn't legislate morality." Agreed.

Murder is just a moral choice. As is theft. All laws are morality being legislated. Drugs were once legal in this country. Check out the history and find out why they were made illegal.

This is a slippery slope argument. All actions can impact others. But people are people. To err is human. If you ride a motorcycle and get injured it could have a devastating financial impact on your family. That does not justify criminalizing motorcycle riding or every other human activity that could lead to problems for others. The issue here is consistency. If all drugs should be illegal, then why not ban alcohol again? As for drawing lines, legalizing or decriminalizing natural drugs (stuff that comes from the earth) would be a start IMO. Society will never stop drug and alcohol abuse, whether it is legal or not. Thus, you can't really win the War on Drugs. It is better to treat drug and alcohol abuse as a public health issue with treatment rather than as a crime with a jail cell.

[RogerTOWM 0]

Having drugs legal or decriminalized and having rehabilitation treatment widely available doesn’t work either. Our country has had education programs since I was in school back in the 70s and before that. I don’t know if that helped anyone stay away from drugs or not. But I do know a lot of my school mates took drugs even though they were educated about the ill effects. Some of them died because of it.

Some Western European countries have tried the decriminalization / rehabilitation route. It did not work as they are finding out now a generation later.

The harm illegal drug use has done to families and society in general. The medical costs, the lost productivity , the lives lost, all this adds up to much more then is spent on the “War on Drugs” for both law enforcement and incarceration.

To say that people will never stop using drugs is to simplistic as well. Drug use in this country has risen as the laws have become more lax.

Some societies have essentially stopped illegal drug use in their countries at least for a while. Opium use in China was once widespread in the cities. When the communists took over they killed the opium addicts and threw them into rivers. My father was in Hong Kong were they would fish the bodies out of the water. The bodies had their hands tied behind their backs with barbed wire. Opium use in China was about nil after that.

Under the Taliban, Afghanistan opium users were executed! Even though afghan farmers grew opium for export to Europe opium addiction in Afghanistan was almost nonexistent.

The use it and you die laws seems to dissuade many people from drug use. I am not advocating those laws for either us or Mexico. I am just pointing out that harsh laws do have an effect on drug use. As we have relaxed our laws we have gained more drug users. This has happened in every country that has relaxed it’s laws as far as I know. And yes I have paid attention to this subject and how other countries have dealt with it. The easy availability of treatment programs has not stopped drug use either. The heroin addict I was referring to had been to several programs through the years as he was injecting his family into his arms.

When we first made the drug laws they were quite harsh and drug use went down. I don’t think I would like to go back to those harsh laws though. I think we have passed the time where we could have done that. I feel what we need to do is to change society’s attitude about drug use. Make it uncool to use drugs again. If we do that the numbers of young people trying drugs will fall. Other then that I don’t know what we can do. I know what has and is failing but I do not know how to win the war. Hopefully someone will come up with the correct answer soon and save us from ourselves.

[darylhunter 1]

Good points,

My big beef with the criminalization of drugs and other contraband is that the monetary incentive is so great that the criminal behaviour and impact to society that results is greater than the down side of the drug abuse it's intended to prevent.

I agree we can't just kill all the addicts, but we ought to be able to kill the dealers - quickly and efficiently and without a lot of costly jail time till we get around to it. But sadly, that won't happen either.

In general, I'm not much in favor of prison time for many offenses. I think we have way too many people in prison and the cost to society is tremendous. We have more people in prison in the U.S. than the population of some countries. It costs a fortune to keep someone in prison, then while in there the convicts are taught how to become real criminals.

Once let out, the stigma of having been in prison makes it very hard to get jobs and return to normal life in the general populace, so they often end up resorting to the criminal training they received while in prison and the cycle repeats.

How about this - for non violent crimes, cane the piss out of them and return them to society, perhaps with some additional community service time.

Additionally, provide training and counseling, and even jobs if necessary so they can reintegrate and become productive members of society. If they repeat, then the penalties become subtantially more severe.

[ShocknAwe 0]

(CNN) -- Argentina's Supreme Court ruled Tuesday it is unconstitutional to punish an adult for private use of marijuana as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

A recent poll showed 29 percent of Americans believe the best way to deal with marijuana is to legalize it.

The unanimous ruling makes Argentina the second Latin American country in the past four days to allow personal use of a formerly illegal drug.The case in question involved five young men who were arrested for having a few marijuana cigarettes in their pockets.

Supreme Court Justice Carlos Fayt, who at one time supported laws that make personal use of marijuana illegal, told the state-run Telam news agency that "reality" changed his mind.

Argentina's action came amid growing momentum in Latin America toward decriminalization of possessing small amounts of certain drugs.

Mexico enacted a law Friday that decriminalizes possessing low quantities of most drugs, including marijuana, heroin, cocaine and LSD.

Earlier this year, a Brazilian appeals court ruled that possession of drugs for personal use is not illegal.

Analysts see the shift in attitude as recognition that current methods in the war on drugs are not working.

"It seems quite clear that drug policy based primarily on interdiction and enforcement has failed," said Robert Pastor, a Latin America national security adviser for President Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. "Therefore, it's natural for people to stand back and ask, 'Is there a better way?' "

Pastor noted that some recent research has shown that handling drug use as a health challenge and focusing on treatment may be more efficient.

"What Argentina and Mexico are doing in many ways is blazing a new path," Pastor said.

Peter Hakim, president of the Inter-American Dialogue policy institute in Washington, sees a trend at work.

"It's all part of a harm-reduction approach," Hakim said, noting that policymakers are shifting away from getting rid of drugs and toward figuring out how to reduce harm to users and society.

Mexico has been considering decriminalization for several years, particularly under the administration of former President Vicente Fox, who held office from 2000-2006. But efforts by the Mexican congress toward decriminalization met with strong resistance from the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush.

"Mexico tried it under Fox and the U.S. got so snippety that they had to back down," Hakim said.

<H4 _extended="true">Don't Miss</H4>

• Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California
  

President Obama's inauguration in January may have changed the calculus, analysts said. The Mexican congress passed the measure in April and President Felipe Calderon quietly signed it into law.

In a visit to the United States, Fox said in May a new approach is needed.

"I believe it's time to open the debate over legalizing drugs," he told CNN. "It must be done in conjunction with the United States, but it is time to open the debate."

Earlier this year, Fox's predecessor and two other former leaders of Latin American nations also called for the decriminalization of marijuana for personal use and a change in strategy in the war on drugs.

The three ex-presidents were members of the 17-nation Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy, which issued its recommendations in February after studying the issue for a year.

"The problem is that current policies are based on prejudices and fears and not on results," former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria said at a news conference in which the commission's recommendations were presented.

Former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso of Brazil said the group called for only the decriminalization of marijuana and not other illicit drugs because "you have to start somewhere."

Fox's predecessor, Ernesto Zedillo, was president of Mexico from 1994 to 2000. Gaviria was president of Colombia from 1990 to 1994. And Cardoso led Brazil from 1995 to 2002.

In his swing through the United States, Fox said any change in drug laws must be accompanied by an education campaign in schools and homes. And because the United States is a large consumer of marijuana that comes from Latin America, any steps toward legalization must be supported in Washington, he said.

Gaviria had said in February that the time was right to start a debate on the subject because of the new administration in Washington.

"In many states in the United States, as is the case in California, they have begun to change federal policies with regard to tolerating marijuana for therapeutic purposes. And in Washington there's some consensus that the current policy is failing," Gaviria said.

The Inter-American Dialogue's Hakim said one recent poll showed that 29 percent of Americans think the best way to deal with marijuana is to legalize it.

Pastor, the former Carter official, wondered whether anyone in Washington is paying attention.

"The question," he said Tuesday, "is whether the United States will be open to this new path."

[RogerTOWM 0]

Good points,

My big beef with the criminalization of drugs and other contraband is that the monetary incentive is so great that the criminal behaviour and impact to society that results is greater than the down side of the drug abuse it's intended to prevent.

I agree we can't just kill all the addicts, but we ought to be able to kill the dealers - quickly and efficiently and without a lot of costly jail time till we get around to it. But sadly, that won't happen either.

In general, I'm not much in favor of prison time for many offenses. I think we have way too many people in prison and the cost to society is tremendous. We have more people in prison in the U.S. than the population of some countries. It costs a fortune to keep someone in prison, then while in there the convicts are taught how to become real criminals.

Once let out, the stigma of having been in prison makes it very hard to get jobs and return to normal life in the general populace, so they often end up resorting to the criminal training they received while in prison and the cycle repeats.

How about this - for non violent crimes, cane the piss out of them and return them to society, perhaps with some additional community service time.

Additionally, provide training and counseling, and even jobs if necessary so they can reintegrate and become productive members of society. If they repeat, then the penalties become subtantially more severe.

Some good points you have there. I don’t have a problem killing drug dealers. I don’t have a problem with killing child molesters. Caning would be an effective punishment in a lot of cases.

About reintegrating criminals into the general society, most of the crooks I know were never integrated to begin with. I doubt that these people would ever become productive citizens. Most of the people in prison are repeat offenders. They are hardcore criminals who have no intention to change. Are there first timers in prison who will never commit a crime again? Of course there are, but these people are not the problem.

Maybe we need to rewrite the three strikes law to punish these repeat offenders with capital punishment instead of life with parole?

As to the stigma of being a convict. I don’t think that is as big a problem as we might think. I know of several people who have lead productive lives after doing time. Jesus said go and sin no more. If you do that your life will eventually get back on track for most things. Yes you may never get to be bonded and that will restrict you from some jobs. But there are other things you can do.

Anyway I wish the people of Mexico the best of luck but I do not feel that this new policy will be helpful to them in the long run.

[ShocknAwe 0]

By Chuck Conder

CNNOAKLAND, California (CNN) -- Richard Lee greets students, shopkeepers and tourists as he rolls his wheelchair down Broadway at the speed of a brisk jog, hailing them with, "Hi. How ya doin'?"

Marijuana activist Richard Lee is a local celebrity in the small district of Oakland, California, called Oaksterdam.

In this nine-block district of Oakland, California, called Oaksterdam, Lee is a celebrity.

Oaksterdam is Lee's brainchild, a small pocket of urban renewal built on a thriving trade in medical marijuana. The district's name comes from a marriage of Oakland and Amsterdam, a city in the Netherlands renowned for its easy attitude toward sex and drugs.

Lee is the founder of Oaksterdam University, which he describes as a trade school that specializes in all things marijuana: how to grow it, how to market it, how to consume it. The school, which has a curriculum, classes and teachers, claims 3,500 graduates.

Lee also owns a medical marijuana dispensary, a coffee house, a large indoor marijuana plantation, and a museum/store devoted to the cause of legalizing marijuana.

"I really see this as following the history of alcohol. The way prohibition was repealed there," Lee says, adding that he believes he is close to achieving his mission.

Lee is organizing a petition drive to place a marijuana legalization measure on the ballot in 2010, and he thinks the measure stands a good chance of being approved by voters.

Can we afford to make pot legal? Can we afford not to? The case for and against legalized pot, an AC 360 special.

Friday 10 p.m. see full schedule » A recent California Field Poll showed that more than half the people in the state, where marijuana for medical use was approved more than a decade ago, would approve of decriminalizing pot.

The state's faltering economy is one reason why. If legalized, marijuana could become California's No. 1 cash crop. It could bring in an estimated $1 billion a year in state taxes.

Democratic State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano is spearheading a cannabis legalization bill in the California Assembly. He believes the state's need to increase tax revenues will work in his bill's favor.

"I think it's a seductive part of the equation," he says.

Ammiano says there are a number of ways legalized pot could be marketed, "It could be a Walgreens, it could be a hospital, a medical marijuana facility, whatever could be convenient. Adequate enforcement of the rules. Nobody under 21. No driving under the influence."

Even California's Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, says legalizing marijuana deserves serious consideration.

"I think we ought to study very carefully what other countries are doing that have legalized marijuana," Schwarzenegger says.

But Ammiano says selling a legalized marijuana bill to his fellow legislators remains a delicate matter.

Oakland, California, passes landmark marijuana tax
AC 360°: The medical marijuana explosion

"If we held the vote in the hallway, we'd have it done," Ammiano says. "But people are necessarily cautious. They are up for re-election."

And that is why Lee believes voters will approve a marijuana initiative long before the state Assembly acts. Sitting under grow lights in a warehouse filled with hundreds of marijuana plants, Lee sums it up this way: "For some people cannabis is like a religion. As passionate as some people are about their religions and freedom to think what they want and to worship as they want."

But all of that is baloney to Paul Chabot. He is president of the Coalition for a Drug Free California. He says voters should not be fooled by promises of big bucks flowing to the state from marijuana taxes.

"It's their way of sort of desensitizing our communities, our state and our nation to a drug problem that we clearly need to put our foot down on, and say, 'No more. Enough is enough.' "

Chabot points out that California's medical marijuana law has been poorly regulated, and he expects more of the same if marijuana becomes legalized for everyone.

But a substantial number of Californians seem to believe that no amount of enforcement is going to make pot go away -- and that it's time for the state to begin taking a cut of the action.

[pyro 1]

It is our god given right to do whatever we want with our lives, as long as it does not directly harm anyone else. The role of government should not be to tell us what we can and can't do with our personal lives. How could anyone else know what is best for me? I know what is best for me, I get to decide what I want to do with MY LIFE, and I would like the government to stay the heck out of it. They should be doing useful things with our tax dollars, not throwing them away on a hopeless battle that can never be won. People will do what they want regardless. As human beings, I think we can all agree that we don't want someone else telling us what we can and can not do.

line them all up and kill them . . . Did I really see someone advocating such a thing? First of all you sound like Hitler, and second of all it's been tried before and it doesn't work . . . sheeesh.

[bikeslut 1]

But a substantial number of Californians seem to believe that no amount of enforcement is going to make pot go away -- and that it's time for the state to begin taking a cut of the action.

That is funny... well we can't stop people from doing it, so we might as well profit from it!

[racerbill 0]

The pot prohibition has done for Mexican gangs what the alcohol prohibition did for Chicago gangs. I want in on the action so go get me some f#@king taxes and lets be smart about this. Anyone who went to school, pretty much any school not just college, knows that pot is the new Martini. So lets legalize it and take the profits away from those Mexican gangs that are screwing up one of my favorite off road parks. RANT RANT RANT.

[bikeslut 1]

for the record; I have no issues with legalizing it... just the government getting involved with anything worries me... and I think the logic is funny... SINCE we can't stop it, we may as well make money from it. That's a bit of a moral dilemma, isn't it?

[ShocknAwe 0]

for the record; I have no issues with legalizing it... just the government getting involved with anything worries me... and I think the logic is funny... SINCE we can't stop it, we may as well make money from it. That's a bit of a moral dilemma, isn't it?

Moral dilemma? Maybe, or just good ole fashioned American hypocrisy. It happened with gambling. States all across America said, "If we can't lickem, join em." The California lotto is $325 million. While gambling used to be illegal, now the states are knee deep in it. Lol - I think it should be legal because who the hell am I (or anyone) to tell people how to live? This is supposed to be the land of a four letter word called F-R-E-E!

[ozzy 0]

speaking of which anybody know of a good crack dealer the f%ing goverment put mine in jail at 40k a year of my taxes$

[racerbill 0]

for the record; I have no issues with legalizing it... just the government getting involved with anything worries me... and I think the logic is funny... SINCE we can't stop it, we may as well make money from it. That's a bit of a moral dilemma, isn't it?

Honestly you think any of the clowns in congress can afford to burn any brain cells at all. I don't want anyone in gov smoking the gange I want them to get outa the way and let a free market develope that we can TAX. It seems people want to smoke so let them, that way we can use our resources to fight hard drugs. The moral dilemma stems from supporting expensive polices that don't work based on some ancient prohibition and lacking the integrity to do the intelligent thing. major rant

[bikeslut 1]

for the record; I have no issues with legalizing it... just the government getting involved with anything worries me... and I think the logic is funny... SINCE we can't stop it, we may as well make money from it. That's a bit of a moral dilemma, isn't it?

Moral dilemma? Maybe, or just good ole fashioned American hypocrisy. It happened with gambling. States all across America said, "If we can't lickem, join em." The California lotto is $325 million. While gambling used to be illegal, now the states are knee deep in it. Lol - I think it should be legal because who the hell am I (or anyone) to tell people how to live? This is supposed to be the land of a four letter word called F-R-E-E!

the hypocrisy is exactly why I think there is a dilemma... same with gambling; in fact, even MORE so! Yeah; you can say gambling ruins lives, but not as directly as a drunk driver running over your kid...

gambling and prostitution are two examples of just good old fashioned morals getting in the way of how people want to live their lives... As you point out; if the Lotto isn't gambling, what is? Why not just set up blackjack tables and roulette wheels? The only difference is "the lotto benefits the schools"... knowing the government, a small portion is left after all the red tape.

So; for the record... weed, hookers and blackjack, i'm fine with... cocaine... kind of not... heroin, etc., definitely not... so... I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite too... i expect we all are, once it starts affecting us, or we have a different awareness of the impacts.

back on the Mexico example... the cartels will need to "up" production, since it'll all be out in the open, i guess... making it legal to possess will not affect them negatively.