Spot Tracker

[darylhunter 1]

Purchased a Spot tracker today (http://www.findmespot.com/Home.aspx) from REI.

Their price was $149.95, which is the same as the sale price going right now on the findmespot.com web page. I think they have free shipping on the web page, plus possibly no sales tax, but the instant gratification factor won.

Got the unit home and unboxed it and went through the registration/subscription process and signed up for both the basic service plus the tracking service and the SAR insurance. Works out to $158/year.

Took the unit out to the back yard and fired it up and sent a test check in message. Took a little less than 10 minutes for it to initalize the GPS and send the message. I received a text message on all the phones that I added to my profile. The message contained the lat/long and the message type, i.e., Check-in / OK.

I also went to the web page that can show your location on Google Earth and sure enough, there was the check-in message right in my back yard.

I've activated the track feature and we'll see how that works - I think I'll go out and move it to the front yard next and see how far it moves on the GE map.

Pretty cool as it is satellite based and you don't have to worry about being out of cell range. Looks like the accuracy will be enough to point the rescue folks to within a few feet of where you're stuck on the trail.

Will give my wife (and me) much more peace of mind as I ride by myself a lot.

[Jaynen 0]

I've heard it is not very reliable in canyons or wooded areas tho from the reports on adv rider

[Bbg.will 0]

I've heard it is not very reliable in canyons or wooded areas tho from the reports on adv rider

Ditto, my brother has one, and he rides up in cascades in washington.

[Joliet 0]

If it didn't work good in hot or sandy or rocky areas that might bea problem . Mine has worked everywhere I have tried it. I don't have the tracking feature though, that will be the test. It would be nice to know where the satalite is in the sky, so if you needed it in a canyon you could be sure you were in an a position that the spot could "see" the satelite.

If I turned it on and put it in my backpack and rode in deep canyons and dense tree covered areas, I would be shocked if it saw the satelite very often at all. I have only used mine to check in with the wife when I am running late and don't have a cell signal (which is most of where I ride), I have always been out in the open when I tried it. Ken

[RogerTOWM 0]

I have been online trying to do some research on it as well.

The naysayers complain that Spot needs an open sky especially when you go far north. They also complain that Spot can take 20 minutes in the same location to get the GPS location and send out a message. So I guess you have to stay out from under trees for it to work. Other extreme hikers complain that it makes you less self-sufficient knowing that help can find you.

So ok, it doesn’t always work. Still works better then nothing. It might take awhile to send out a signal. If you really need it you almost certainly aren’t going any where anyway. It might make you less self-sufficient! Who cares send help now!

Other Personal Locater Devices can not send hello I’m fine messages or allow the family to track you and cost more. But they are more dependable in transmitting your help signal and have no fees just the upfront costs.

Spot device requires an annual fee that the other devices don’t. Spot can be use to send simple hey I am safe message and allows selected people to track you so it is a more versatile communications device.

I think some type of device is a good idea. I’m still up in the air about which type.

[jerry 0]

[ It would be nice to know where the satalite is in the sky, so if you needed it in a canyon you could be sure you were in an a position that the spot could "see" the satelite.

Spot uses the GPS satellite system to pinpoint your coordinates to within 5 meters. When the button is pushed, it then sends that info into the GEOS system of many low earth orbiting (LEO) satellites, and then to the GEOS control center in Texas, where the message is filtered and sent to the associated service requested, be it for check-in or emergency needs. They even sell a phone version with the call button. A very cool tool if you can afford it. And if you can't, ride slower.

[darylhunter 1]

GOES is a different satellite series from the Globalstar satellites.

Don't know if I've mentioned it on this site, but I'm a satellite communications engineer.

Here's a link to a web site that will show you what the constallation of Globalstar satellites is supposed to look like. It is a low earth orbit type constellation.

When I get to work I'll import the TLEs (Two-Line Element) sets for the orbiting Globalstar satellites into a tool that I have and see if I can export a picture.

I'll also see what typical elevation angles will be to the satellites for our area.

[darylhunter 1]

Downloaded the latest two-line element sets from the space track web site and looked over the Globalstar constellation. Ran a quick check of look angles from the San Diego area and found that there were 8 satellites above the horizon. Two of them had very high elevation angles - 61.6 and 78.0 deg. Two others were down in the 14 and 22 deg range.

The two high ones would provide access from most gullies and ravines and the two medium ones would work OK for most general areas with moderate hills. The satellites are always moving in the sky with respect to someone on the ground so the angles are constantly changing.

Maybe later when I get some time I'll run a check on the visibility statistics and see what percentage of time there is at least one satellite above say 45 degrees. I have a feeling it's going to be pretty good though.

Blockage due to tree cover will certainly be an issue if I'm ever in a position where it's all gone to he!! in a lot of trees. Hopefully I'll still be mobile enough to get to a clearing - it won't take much of one.

Plus if you've been riding with tracking enabled, hopefully a few messages will get through every now and then which will give family/searchers an idea of where to look should you vanish without being able to send a help or "911" message from the unit.

So far I've never gotten into such a predicament, and hope to never need to use the thing in anger. It's just one more tool in the tool box and hopefully between the Spot, my ham radio, common sense, and some reasonable outdoor skills, I'd be OK till found.

A Globalstar phone or Iridium phone were other options besides the Spot and PLB.

The PLB is more likely to work in heavy tree cover than the Spot, and has no annual fee. It's a little more expensive going in, but you'd make that back in the first couple years of service fees on the Spot. The problem with the PLB though is it's an all or nothing device. You only activate it if it's really a life threatening situation. Can't use it for an I'm OK, just running late status message, or help I'm stuck and need help but don't send in the troops yet message.

I'll play with it on my ride this weekend and report back on how it does while riding around in the NC ORV area. That's pretty representative of the type of rugged terrain available in this area.

For those interested, here are links to a snapshot of the look angles to the various Globalstar satellites and a picture of what the constellation looks like.

Look Angles

Constellation Picture

Daryl

[Joliet 0]

Maybe later when I get some time I'll run a check on the visibility statistics and see what percentage of time there is at least one satellite above say 45 degrees.

Daryl

Daryl, thanks for the great info. How many satellites does the spot need to see at once to get an accurate fix on your location? I don't know much about it (understatement of the day ), but I would think it could send a message just by seeing one satellite, but to get an accurate fix on your location it would need 2 or 3 to be accurate. Ken

[darylhunter 1]

Maybe later when I get some time I'll run a check on the visibility statistics and see what percentage of time there is at least one satellite above say 45 degrees.

Daryl

Daryl, thanks for the great info. How many satellites does the spot need to see at once to get an accurate fix on your location? I don't know much about it (understatement of the day ), but I would think it could send a message just by seeing one satellite, but to get an accurate fix on your location it would need 2 or 3 to be accurate. Ken

I think it can send the message if it sees just one Globalstar satellite, but to get a GPS fix it will need to see at least three GPS satellites. The GPS satellites are in a 12 hour circular medium earth orbit.

Spot will send a message even if it can't determine the GPS coordinates, but what wasn't clear in the user manual was if it will use the last known coordinate if it was able to get a recent fix, but couldn't get enough satellites to take a fix at the time the unit was ready to fire off another message.

[RogerTOWM 0]

Downloaded the latest two-line element sets from the space track web site and looked over the Globalstar constellation. Ran a quick check of look angles from the San Diego area and found that there were 8 satellites above the horizon. Two of them had very high elevation angles - 61.6 and 78.0 deg. Two others were down in the 14 and 22 deg range.

The two high ones would provide access from most gullies and ravines and the two medium ones would work OK for most general areas with moderate hills. The satellites are always moving in the sky with respect to someone on the ground so the angles are constantly changing.

A Globalstar phone or Iridium phone were other options besides the Spot and PLB.

Daryl

The coverage complaints I read about for the SPOT came from up north toward Canada and upper U.S. The guys in Australia said they had no problems. So maybe the Satellite coverage is not as good up north?

The big advantage I see of the spot over the PLB is that you can use it to communicate, not just send a generic help now type message. Also your loved ones could track your trip. That would get the kids (or in my case grand kids) involved with the adventure trips. Randy could have used one and we would be able to track his progress on the TAT.

But if you only want a way of summoning help for a life threatening situation the PLB might be cheaper and a better option.

I guess the best option for communication would be a sat phone. Just how expensive are they? Can you get one that just charges you for the air time you use?

A nice thing about the SPOT and PLB are that you only need to push a button (or open antenna and push the button) the device sends the “I need help message” and your location. I guess with the sat phone you would still need to be able to talk and also know where you are to give out the location?

[darylhunter 1]

Went out and did my NC ORV trail scouting ride yesterday and had the Spot running in tracking mode.

Was out there for for just under four hours I think.

When I got back home and checked the tracking log on the web site, I saw that there were 16 messages.

If I was out there for four hours, that would have been 240 minutes and if the messages were sent every 10 minutes, then I should have received 24 tracking updates.

Looking through the message time stamps, I could see where one was dropped here and there. Those that came through were pretty accurate though and never showed me off in the weeds some where, but in fact did show me right on the trails where I was.

The 16 messages did give a fair picture of the area over which I was riding.

If something had happened and I stopped moving for very long, then it would be clear that the updates would start coming back from the same location (assuming I wasn't lying on top of the unit or something) and searchers would have a good idea where to start looking.

Of course, assuming that one were still able to move, you would press the help or 911 button if you really needed it.

I was riding with the unit inside the mesh on the outer portion of my backpack. This actually put it somewhat towards the bottom of the pack, but on the outside. I think performance may have been a bit better if I'd found a way to mount it on the top of the pack.

Here's a link to a Google Earth .kml file of the track log. I've moved all the points by the same random offset in order to protect the location of the NC ORV area. Later when I get time I'll write up my trail scouting and update the NC ORV post in the members only area and put the file without the offsets in there.

Spot Messages

[cardiffchris 0]

Just got one last month.

Looking forward to having an extra layer of safety.

This should give the spouse some confidence that i can be found if riding alone and get injured.

Happy Wife = Happy Life

[paulmbowers 236]

You do have to have them top-up in an open place. In my backpack, I got one in 10 points, in my rear fender bag on top of all the tools, the score increased considerably.

p

[christi20 0]

Great Info.

I just received mine yesterday. I ordered through Thumpertalk. Not only did they offer the unit at only $149, but you also got one year of free tracking ($50 value), and free shipping, and no tax.

Of course I also added the $8 insurance. What a deal!

I also heard from Brian, one of the Thumpertalk owners, that it worked great as far as the check in feature goes. The only problem he mentioned was that tracking did not work so hot in the woods and while the unit was in his backpack. He said he had to take it out of his pack and put it on his chest protector. Then it worked much better.

I am hoping to try mine out today on the way home from work.

[rex_everything 0]

Not sure if this is a deal but thought I would pass it along.

http://www.findmespot.com/barf.aspx

[Crawdaddy 96]

If it didn't work good in hot or sandy or rocky areas that might be a problem . Mine has worked everywhere I have tried it.

The Spot tracker really helped out a guy riding with Brent (Riceless on SDAR/ADVRider) this past weekend:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420272

[bikeslut 1]

I used mine for the first time today... (I almost drove over it in the driveway first)

Nice to know it worked, and I know as well as anybody how much you may need it.

[darylhunter 1]

Used mine before New Years day just to send a couple check in / OK messages to demonstrate the unit to my wife's family.

Worked just fine. The cool part was looking at the spot where we were on Google Earth and they were able to see that indeed it showed the spot where we'd been within feet of where I was standing when I sent the message.

Good to hear that the 911 feature works as advertised - too bad though for the rider's leg :-(

[KIP 0]

I want one! Perfect for desert riding. When will they offer them free again?

[Crawdaddy 96]

Good to hear that the 911 feature works as advertised - too bad though for the rider's leg :-(

Follow-up post fromthe guy who broke his leg: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421058

[paulmbowers 236]

Good to hear that the 911 feature works as advertised - too bad though for the rider's leg :-(

Follow-up post fromthe guy who broke his leg: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421058

Interesting about the coordinates and a non-uniform methodology. I believe the same problem was an issue with the BS helo rescue.

Might be a good topic for the Geek Tech Fest 2009

p

[bikeslut 1]

Good to hear that the 911 feature works as advertised - too bad though for the rider's leg :-(

Follow-up post fromthe guy who broke his leg: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421058

Interesting about the coordinates and a non-uniform methodology. I believe the same problem was an issue with the BS helo rescue.

Might be a good topic for the Geek Tech Fest 2009

p

true dat... The important thing is to maintain composure and walk the dispatcher through the whole process... Of course, I was acting like a raving lunatic, so we never really communicated til SDL or woody took over

[TrophyHunter 15]

I will be contacting SD Sheriff dispatch based on the ADV write up to assess their protocol. The lack of training on the write up and BS's experience shouldn't be the norm.

I'd be interested to check the park rangers and Imperial County response as well.

[darylhunter 1]

While riding in the North County ORV area we found a stolen jeep that had obviously only recently been dumped. The jeep was still about 95% intact and had not yet been vandalized.

We took note of the VIN info and then also found the insurance card for the vehicle, so I took that and then noted the GPS coordinates by setting a way point.

When I got home I called the insurance agency, they confirmed the jeep had been stolen in turn asked me to call the Escondido sheriff's department to have them "recover" the vehicle in their system. First thing the sheriff asked me for was the nearest cross streets. I told them that this was in an area a ways off road and there weren't any streets near by, but that I did have the GPS coordinates. They had no clue as to what those were and simply couldn't deal with them.

So the sheriff's dept then had me call the San Diego Astria helicopter unit because they fly over that area and speak GPS. Took a while to get a hold of them because the number they gave me was for the pilots themselves and I had to wait until they got back to their desk to check their messages. Eventually they did call me back an were able to take down the info and locate the jeep. I also put out some pink marker tape over the tops of the trees that were hiding the jeep to help.

Anyway, the bottom line is that it seems that indeed, we can't count on local police and fire / rescue agencies to be conversant with GPS yet.