Goofy Footer 539 Posted August 2, 2014 I caught this nail while riding south of the border recently. It punctured a 4mm UHD tube. A properly installed patch kit failed some 13 miles later leaving me stuck. Had I run a Bib Mousse, I would not have gotten a flat. But... what kind of damage to the Mousse would such a nail cause? --Cutting/tearing of the Mousse? --Do Mousse riders check their tires after each ride? btw I can get a Bib Mousse for $110 a pop. Pricey yes but I would have paid good money to not have gotten that flat. I was running high 20s PSI because I was paranoid about getting a pinch flat. Not much I could have done to prevent that nail puncture while running a tube setup. I believe Tubliss would have failed me here as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oracle 195 Posted August 2, 2014 It would have not affected the Mousse. In fact, that is the advantage to them....eating nails like that for breakfast. However, there are several disadvantages to them, including: They are a PITA to change, they wear out, they are expensive, and they are not adjustable like air pressure....IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted August 2, 2014 Thanks for the reply Oracle. I too wonder what effective PSI Mousses provide. Does it feel like 12psi or 18psi? Anybody have some insight? I believe SDAR's own Bubbagums got 4000 miles front and nearly 2000 miles rear on his Bib Mousses mounted to his 525 and he still rode some freeway. On a 90/10 dirt/hwy moto, one could rack up some serious dirt miles on a Mousse before needing to switch them out. They cost more than the tires I typically use. Pinch flats typically happen on the front wheel correct? Maybe a Mousse in the front wouldn't be such a bad idea for a dirt focused moto? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 412 Posted August 2, 2014 disadvantage not good for sustained speed use, i ride only trails for me personally there is no substitute for bib mousses, its a big choice and a commitment to zero flat issues, pressure sense they start at @ 13psi feel and slowly degrade, initial degrade is kind of sustained 10-11 psi feel, then they go down into the 8 range, if you keep them well lubes they last better. depending on the ride 8psi can be a good thing..... fronts last much better, less load on them. ps not a pita at all when you tool up properly, ZipTy mousse lube bucket, isde style tire tool and motion pro compound bend irons 4-5. cost yes 100-150 each...last @ for 2 of use that use them @9-10 months at best, my tires are gone before my mousses 1-2 month on tires for me. Ive been on mousses for @ 5 years now, all my enduro heroes use them. Mousses are not the answer as well as tires if you are really looking for super long 2000 mile changes they are a race level uncompromising solution to flats. If I get 9 months from one I am happy thats riding @ 1 time per week @ 50 miles per ride. Like I said I go through a rear tire @ 6 rides. fronts longer. Im not a fan but you may consider the tubliss system 2 of our hardcore crew use it and like it. you can air up and down and if your tire leaks out you can still motor on and wait to plug your tire the best tire to use for tubliss in my crews opinion is the new AT81RC dunlop (RC reinforced carcass) tire lasts gives great traction in many conditions and if you do hole the tire it runs like it has air in it anyway!! Those 2 guys are solid A level riders and run single digit pressures 7-9 psi in the tire with the standard 100 psi for the inside bead tube. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted March 14, 2015 Picked up another rear tire nail in baja (two rim locks mind you). Thankfully I made it home fine and didn't notice this until a week later when I went to clean the bike. . . Hmmm mousse... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikeslut 1 Posted March 14, 2015 Thankfully I made it home fine and didn't notice this until a week later when I went to clean the bike. . that's your problem... you clean your bike... I NEVER find nails in my tires while cleaning my bikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tntmo 908 Posted March 15, 2015 Thankfully I made it home fine and didn't notice this until a week later when I went to clean the bike. . that's your problem... you clean your bike... I NEVER find nails in my tires while cleaning my bikes I find all kinds of weird things when I clean your bikes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikeslut 1 Posted March 15, 2015 Pppffftt....you missed the frayed clutch cable...granted, you found the stripped sprocket bolts, dirty air filter, gummed up carb, and about 100 other things, but seriously Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tntmo 908 Posted March 15, 2015 Clutches have cables? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi 0 Posted March 15, 2015 I've never tried the Tubliss system, but some people think it walks on water. Should make for easier roadside flat repair unless you really gash the hell out of the tire, and I've seen videos of people riding a pretty good ways on a tire that had been chainsawed. I've definitely thought about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 412 Posted March 16, 2015 remember that tubliss still fills your tire with air. the inner hard tube seals the bead and the spoke holes to basically make the tire a tubeless tire. included is the "rimlock" Schrader valve assy and a secondary hole in your rim to keep the inner hard tube filled to 90-110 psi (or something like that). So if you rip your tire open you are on a zero psi tire, all they guys I know slop in a bunch of slime or other sealer into the tire. I have physically built up a few sets of them. its good system many like and love it. Ive just never been a fan, I like the simplicity of using mousses (like all the top tier enduro guys use), and with the correct tools they are easier and faster than tubes, you never need worry about pinching or cutting a tube when installing. as for mousse tears its really no big deal, the big deal is to keep them well lubed to keep inside friction to minimum, heat and friction are the enemies of mousses. We even cut them and add sections to boost the OD to fit oversize tires (GT216AA). You can even spiral tape them with flexible tape to give even more life. If you are a Baja open road rider long distance high speed guy I would not use a rear mousse (unless you can get factory level Dakar mousses), but a front is ok to use for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 412 Posted March 16, 2015 PPS we do ride a lot of single track and some real ugly stuff up here and in the mountains around Tecate... in the middle of nowhere, it takes the one less thing to worry about to another level, no tire change related items no air, no tire spoons, no tubes in my trail pack=less weight as well. mousses weigh no more than xHD tubes. By my calibrated elbow the Michelin airstop 4mm XHD tubes are heavier than mousses. feel wise fresh mousse =@ 13psi after a few rides and for a long while they hang in the 10-12 range for most of their life. They have a dead feeling when hitting things and absorb hits differently than air to me its better, they just absorb the energy with little or no rebound Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PastaPilot 17 Posted March 16, 2015 Nails and Bib Mousse? Top Enduro riders drill holes in the mousses to provide the feel of lower air pressure. A nail hole wouldn't ever be noticed. I've got 2.5 years and about 130 hours of use on my YZs front mousse. It is noticebly softer than it was when new, but still worlds better than rolling the dice on a flat tire to ruin a ride. I just pulled a 3.5 year old mouse out of my Aprilia that is going into the rear of my YZ. It was a 130 size mousse when new but just about the perfect size for the a 110 tire. After all this time it was definetely dry (haven't ridden the RXV since early 2013) and conformed to the shape of the tire, but in very good condition overall. I expect it to last the rest of this year with the hard trail use I use it for. Cost, meh, it only takes a couple tubes and trail side repairs to equal the cost of a new mousse. In the time the mousse has been in my front tire I've bought and replaced 4 tubes in the rear and this weekend I got a hole in another. I'm done with air, make mine butyl rubber foam thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimi 0 Posted March 17, 2015 I had read numerous places that the bib mousse wasn't a good plan if your riding included long freeway runs. For me for example, having to hit the freeways occasionally is a requirement, and the whole reason I have a plated bike. For a purely offroad bike, probably makes more sense. I know guys run them for the Baja 1000, which is obviously high speed, so I'm not sure why running on the highway would matter, but they are not DOT approved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PastaPilot 17 Posted March 17, 2015 Inner tubes aren't DOT approved either. Michelin states " Specifically designed for off-road competition use for speeds up to 80 mph (130 km/h). Above this speed, heat build-up can lead to rapid destruction of the Bib Mousse, resulting in serious injury to the rider. Under no circumstances should Bib Mousse be fitted to motorcycles for on-road use. Because Bib Mousse is shaped for a perfect fit inside these Michelin tires, use of Bib Mousse with other brands of tires can lead to handling instability and possible destruction of Bib Mousse" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robertaccio 412 Posted March 17, 2015 What PastaPilot said. to reiterate the mousse value added that I also blah blah blahd about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted March 17, 2015 How often must you re-lube them? My bikes are moving to a garage in East County and it gets waay hot in there over summer. Flats suck! Tubliss imho would not have helped me in either of my baja nail flats. Sure I could plug the hole (well, try to plug the hole but I have my reservations on it being successful). If mousses would allow me to run over nails and cactus (think baja single track) without flats that would be awesome. But... do I run the risk of the moose breaking down on me on a ride after sitting day after day in a hot arse garage?? If I get some, I'll be Mousse dual-sporting (with heavy emphasis on dirt / minimal pavement mucho preferro). Definitely under 80mph. In the Chasing Summer - Quinn Cody / Kendall Norman series, they run Mousse Bibs - check em out in La Paz before they return to Ensenada. That's 1500 miles by pro racers though not Goofy style.. Also, any good place to get these installed? Does install cost more than a new tube / standard new tire? Seems like a beetch if you don't know what you're doing / don't have the special isde quick mount tool thingy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted March 17, 2015 Woa Okay, how many rim locks do you run? How does the bead set to the rim? - on a tube setup I typically over-inflate the tube a bit til the bead pops into place perfectly on the rim. hmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PastaPilot 17 Posted March 18, 2015 No rim locks. They're used to keep the tire from spinning on the rim and tearing a valve stem. There' are no valve stems so no need for rim locks. Others will have different opinions on that. I put rubber plugs in the holes then double wrap the inside of the rim with duct tape. There will be enough lube on the bead that it will slip right on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blakeNY9 0 Posted March 19, 2015 Good deal on Michelin Mousses, $99 shiipped. http://www.pdi-racing.com/mx/michelin-tube-90-100-21f-bib-mousse-22513/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goofy Footer 539 Posted March 19, 2015 Good deal on Michelin Mousses, $99 shiipped. http://www.pdi-racing.com/mx/michelin-tube-90-100-21f-bib-mousse-22513/ Thanks for the link. Not free but not uber pricey. I believe these come with a lil tube of lube. Maybe a dumb question, but do you run a rim strip / rim tape with a Mousse? I'd assume so, don't want the spoke nipples to tear into the Mousse foam! Btw: Even at this price they cost more than my tires ha! (especially the 110/18 Kenda Trakmaster IIs that I run on the WR250f - $55ish!) --> if I only bought one, should I go: .....front (Mousse longevity/pinch flat protection) or .....rear (apparently my rear is a nail magnet & double rim lock rear tubes are a pita to change on the trail) ---> thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikeslut 1 Posted March 19, 2015 You guys seem to worry about flats a lot...maybe it's poor riding techniques? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
