Desert Dash Hams? - Radios

[akcooper9 0]

A repeater.

Correct. I agree with the post right above me. There is A LOT to ham and just studying for the test does not provide you with the knowledge to fully utilize a radio. With that said, I am learning to enjoy the hobby. Dont thinking I want to be on a repeater with bunch of riders during an event though!

[paulmbowers 236]

A repeater.

Dont thinking I want to be on a repeater with bunch of riders during an event though!

Agreed- a careful reading of my posts will reveal that's not what's being suggested- thanks for the chance to reiterate the idea.

I'm suggesting that large events can be handled in a manner similar to communications for mariners. Boats will often have two VHF radios- not just for redundancy, but it allows boats to monitor a frequency with which they use for chatter with their buddies- sharing fishing spots, etc.

The other is to monitor Marine Channel 16, the universal hailing frequency, monitored by the Coast Guard at all times.

If we had enough licensed hams in the club, we'd do something very similar- use a (or more) simplex (that's bike-to-bike) frequencies for our individual riding groups of 3 or four, but have a sweep/emergency/hailing frequency that uses a repeater(s). In the even of an emergency, a rider could switch to that frequency to ask for help, and could be answered by a base or by one of the hopefully close-by sweep riders that are using that repeater.

Another benefit:

If one of the small group riders gets seperated from their group, the group would have a standing agreement that after- say 10 minutes without simplex comms, the group will move to the hailing (repeater(s)) frequency to coordinate reunification. Several years ago, I was seperated on one side of Superstition, and the rest of my group was on the other- just a mile or so away, but out of simplex range due to the mountain. We spend an hour looking for each other, and none of us were very happy about it. Could have been an easy fix by switching to the repeater, setting a meeting spot, and back on the trail.

So- that'd be my suggestion- and it's pretty clear we don't have enough licensed hams to make this a reality- yet.

I have another suggestion, though, and it might be even better...I'll start a new thread.

[akcooper9 0]

If we had enough licensed hams in the club, wed do use a (or more) simplex (that's bike-to-bike) frequencies for our individual riding groups of 3 or four, but have a sweep/emergency/hailing frequency that uses a repeater(s). In the even of an emergency, a rider could switch to that frequency to ask for help, and could be answered by a base or by one of the hopefully close-by sweep riders that are using that repeater.

The above is logical enough and sounds like a good idea. Realistically only need 1 person per group to be a ham...but even then if something was seriously wrong I hope not having a license wouldn't stop someone for using a repeater (for an emergency (only))

Im curious to hear your other idea...

[paulmbowers 236]

but even then if something was seriously wrong I hope not having a license wouldn't stop someone for using a repeater (for an emergency (only))

Agreed. But that would still require training and programming one's radio. And I wouldn't spend the time to set up training for if we can get only a few folks to show up- I'm using the dedication to getting a license as an indicator for the number of folks willing to invest time and effort to create a system like this.

Without some pretty large numbers (think 20 or 30), it's a waste of time.

[SteelRain 0]

Not to bat you down Paul...

We could an SDAR guy to go over the basics with the sweep teams (those of us with licenses) and implement your idea. I agree that only one HAM per sweep team would be needed. I thought this was the original plan. Having everyone on the repeater would be fairly useless - to much chatter not enough import info.

Simple and Effective.

[paulmbowers 236]

Having everyone on the repeater would be fairly useless - to much chatter not enough import info.

Agreed- a careful reading of my posts will reveal that's not what's being suggested- thanks for the chance to reiterate the idea thusly:

I'm suggesting that large events can be handled in a manner similar to communications for mariners. Boats will often have two VHF radios- not just for redundancy, but it allows boats to monitor a frequency with which they use for chatter with their buddies- sharing fishing spots, etc.

The other is to monitor Marine Channel 16, the universal hailing frequency, monitored by the Coast Guard at all times.

If we had enough licensed hams in the club, we'd do something very similar- use a (or more) simplex (that's bike-to-bike) frequencies for our individual riding groups of 3 or four, but have a sweep/emergency/hailing frequency that uses a repeater(s). In the even of an emergency, a rider could switch to that frequency to ask for help, and could be answered by a base or by one of the hopefully close-by sweep riders that are using that repeater.

It would be helpful to have a licensed operator on each sweep team, and while simple in concept, it's not practical with the very low numbers of :

a) Licensed hams

2) Licensed hams at the DD

iii) Licensed hams capable, willing and able to run sweeps

&) Licensed hams at the DD, capable and willing to do sweep riding, and who's riding abilities match those of a good sweep rider(s).

Again- if we had a pool of 20 or 30, we could pull it off- and it'd be great, I think we could find a match for each team.

[Wakemedic 0]

For those interested.....Ron emailed me back. They are definitely giving a ham class/ test sometime between now and March. He will let us know as soon as they confirm the exact date.

[blind_in_1_ear 0]

For those interested.....Ron emailed me back. They are definitely giving a ham class/ test sometime between now and March. He will let us know as soon as they confirm the exact date.

thanks man!!

[AATA 0]

I have 2 other buddies that I ride with that just purchased radios and need more training like me. They just aren't on this site. Doesn't bring it up to 30-40, but I'm sure others have friend/family that ride or have radios that just aren't on this site or haven't seen the poll.

If any classes get planned or come up, I"m in.

Thanks!

[ADV Bum 205]

If any classes get planned or come up, I"m in.

I just purchased my radio. Ditto on the class!

[KTMrad 512]

I just purchased my radio. Ditto on the class!

Mike, which radio you get ? Where'd you get it ?

[akcooper9 0]

Yaesu has a great handheld...the FT-270r for 149 at HRO

http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-010076

For helmet stuff contact Diego at Baja Designs

[ADV Bum 205]

Yaesu has a great handheld...the FT-270r for 149 at HRO

http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-010076

For helmet stuff contact Diego at Baja Designs

I purchased the ft-270. Unfortunately I just talked to Diego and they are out of the specific attachment for that radio and they are on the fence about even carrying the mic merchandise as sales have dropped.

[akcooper9 0]

Unfortunately I just talked to Diego and they are out of the specific attachment for that radio and they are on the fence about even carrying the mic merchandise as sales have dropped.

Dang...well give rugged racing a call. Ask for Andy Owens

Everyone else is to expense for the same stuff.

http://www.ruggedradios.com/

[KTMrad 512]

I purchased the ft-270. Unfortunately I just talked to Diego and they are out of the specific attachment for that radio and they are on the fence about even carrying the mic merchandise as sales have dropped.

Wonder if HRO can get the helmet stuff also ? Or everyone is not going to carry that stuff, or just Baja Designs won't ?

[akcooper9 0]

Wonder if HRO can get the helmet stuff also ? Or everyone is not going to carry that stuff, or just Baja Designs won't ?

Nope, HRO only has the radio and the adapter.

Rugged for sure will have everything.

[Covered in Dust 163]

Here is the link for what most of us are using.

http://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=168&products_id=586

Covered in Dust

[akcooper9 0]

I can call Andy and setup pricing if you guys would like.

I called and talk with Kevin. He can do MUCH better then the 215 price for us!

If you want a helmet setup, PM and Ill tell you the price. The way this has to work (per Rugged) is I have to place one BIG order.

Let me know.

[SteelRain 0]

Whatever you do, do NOT GET THE HRO helmet setup.

I know three guys who have it; though they can hear other riders, when they transmit all we can hear is engine noise.

CiD and I had this problem on the Cabo ride we did with another rider in the group.

[PbdBlue 46]

Having everyone on the repeater would be fairly useless - to much chatter not enough import info.

Agreed- a careful reading of my posts will reveal that's not what's being suggested- thanks for the chance to reiterate the idea thusly:

I'm suggesting that large events can be handled in a manner similar to communications for mariners. Boats will often have two VHF radios- not just for redundancy, but it allows boats to monitor a frequency with which they use for chatter with their buddies- sharing fishing spots, etc.

The other is to monitor Marine Channel 16, the universal hailing frequency, monitored by the Coast Guard at all times.

If we had enough licensed hams in the club, we'd do something very similar- use a (or more) simplex (that's bike-to-bike) frequencies for our individual riding groups of 3 or four, but have a sweep/emergency/hailing frequency that uses a repeater(s). In the even of an emergency, a rider could switch to that frequency to ask for help, and could be answered by a base or by one of the hopefully close-by sweep riders that are using that repeater.

The way this is typically done at most events is to have one operator at the base as "net control". All communications from the field go through him\her. That keeps the chatter off the air and things nicely coordinated. I've volunteered as a field operator on several Ultra-Marathon events in the past with my position being Pinyon Mtn just up from "The Squeeze". This all takes some preperation is probably a bit much to try to tackle at least for this year. In fact it be more effort than needed. Frankly cell phone coverage is pretty good over the desert and ATT works well at BR (not Verizon though).

[CableJockey 1]

I have to agree with PbdBlue, setting up a Net at this late date would be difficult. You need the permission of the repeater owner (could be a club) to use their repeater for this type of event. You'll want a backup repeater in the event that something happens to the first repeater. Experienced Hams will need a little training so they know how the net will be run and the inexperienced hams will want some additional training on radio etiquette. A cheatsheet would be a good idea.

I ran the LA Marathon emergency medical net for 10 years. I had skilled operators with good equipment and they were well trained. You would be surprised how much can go wrong, there were always some good stories at the end of the day. People switching their headsets to VOX will tie up the repeater until their battery runs dead or you figure out who it is and go kill them. Hams who are unhappy that "their" repeater isn't available will screw with you by trying to call in bogus problems or jam your transmissions. The list goes on and on.

Something that Hams don't like is people without a license using the Ham frequencies. Yes, you can legally use any frequency in an emergency but unless the unlicensed operator is calling for a medical emergency (death will occur if help doesn't arrive soon) they will raise a holy war against SDAR and all the Hams who were in contact with the unlicensed operator. It would be unpleasant and could potentially result in someone losing their license. Hams are a great bunch of nerds and completely unforgiving at the same time. Trust me, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this I know.

Since there are a bunch of SPOT devices in the group, why not turn on tracking so you know where the sweep teams are and if they need non-emergency help they can push the Help button and a vehicle will be sent to their location. Once in the area the vehicle and riders can make contact on simplex. Of course, if it is a life threatening emergency they use the SOS/911 button which would also let you know where they are. You would want to have everyone create a group with the rescue team phone numbers and email addresses.

Just a thought.

[paulmbowers 236]

Since there are a bunch of SPOT devices in the group, why not turn on tracking so you know where the sweep teams are and if they need non-emergency help they can push the Help button and a vehicle will be sent to their location. Once in the area the vehicle and riders can make contact on simplex. Of course, if it is a life threatening emergency they use the SOS/911 button which would also let you know where they are. You would want to have everyone create a group with the rescue team phone numbers and email addresses.

Just a thought.

Funny you mention that.

A buddy of mine runs a site called whereamiriding which is setup to do exactly that. I mentioned to him that a DesertDash specific area on the site could be setup where each SPOT-equipped rider would register. During the ride anyone could look at one page on the site to see where any SPOT-equipped rider is, and any help, ok or sos message was sent. Ideally, in my geek fantasy world, a SPOT device would be a requirement for all participants of any organized group ride.

Obviously, the tinfoil-hat crowd will view this a a privacy issue, assuming a masked man will go rob their houses while they're out on a ride. Personally, common sense tells me otherwise- while it's true in theory, it's far more likely my house will burn down due to spontaneous combustion starting in the oil rag pile in my garage.

Anyway, yes, a one-page dynamic website displaying all the location and status of riders in this ride would benefit all.

[PbdBlue 46]

I have to agree with PbdBlue, setting up a Net at this late date would be difficult. You need the permission of the repeater owner (could be a club) to use their repeater for this type of event. You'll want a backup repeater in the event that something happens to the first repeater. Experienced Hams will need a little training so they know how the net will be run and the inexperienced hams will want some additional training on radio etiquette. A cheatsheet would be a good idea.

I ran the LA Marathon emergency medical net for 10 years. I had skilled operators with good equipment and they were well trained. You would be surprised how much can go wrong, there were always some good stories at the end of the day. People switching their headsets to VOX will tie up the repeater until their battery runs dead or you figure out who it is and go kill them. Hams who are unhappy that "their" repeater isn't available will screw with you by trying to call in bogus problems or jam your transmissions. The list goes on and on.

Something that Hams don't like is people without a license using the Ham frequencies. Yes, you can legally use any frequency in an emergency but unless the unlicensed operator is calling for a medical emergency (death will occur if help doesn't arrive soon) they will raise a holy war against SDAR and all the Hams who were in contact with the unlicensed operator. It would be unpleasant and could potentially result in someone losing their license. Hams are a great bunch of nerds and completely unforgiving at the same time. Trust me, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this I know.

Since there are a bunch of SPOT devices in the group, why not turn on tracking so you know where the sweep teams are and if they need non-emergency help they can push the Help button and a vehicle will be sent to their location. Once in the area the vehicle and riders can make contact on simplex. Of course, if it is a life threatening emergency they use the SOS/911 button which would also let you know where they are. You would want to have everyone create a group with the rescue team phone numbers and email addresses.

Just a thought.

All that said there's nothing wrong with a sweep member who is a licensed ham using the repeater to make a call for help in a serious emergency. Just for the record there are two repeaters on Monument Peak (Mt. Laguna) that cover the desert floor pretty well. The more popular one is 147.240 MHz. It is owned by ECRA (a local club )and has a plus offset with a PL 103.5. It is linked through a couple of repeaters from San Diego to Phoenix. One of the repeaters it is linked through is on Black Mountain (near Glamis). There are some areas of the desert that see this repeater better than Monument. It is 147.120 MHz, Plus and PL 103.5. The other Monument Pk repeater is 147.150 and is owned by SANDRA (another local club). It also has a plus offset and the PL is 107.2. There is one other repeater that may be of use. It's on Superstition and covers some of the areas that are shadowed from the Monument Pk repeaters. It is 146.670 MHz with a minus offset and a 103.5 PL. All of these are open repeaters that any licensed ham can use. You do not have to be a club member to use them.

[paulmbowers 236]

For those of you who've had their programming set by DigDug or cloned from my radios, some or all of these are programmed into your radios, with the PL and offset set. They're even named. Learn to set the radio to the memory function and "scroll" through to see the names.I know Superstition is in there, plus Laguna. I know there are more.

[CableJockey 1]

PbdBlue,

You obviously have a good understanding of the system down there and who the players are. I have experience in another area with a different group of operators which may or may not apply.

I think the first question is, is there somebody (or a tag team of people) willing to actively manage the response team? If there is, I would do everything mentioned above.

1. Track your teams using whereamiriding

2. Use phones as the primary means of contact where there is coverage

3. Use spot where you don't have coverage or use it in every case because it will log the GPS location

4. Use simplex wherever possible to stay off the repeaters

5. Use the repeaters with approval of the owner and as little as possible unless the owner gives you exclusive use for the event

6. Put together a cheat sheet with the repeater frequencies, phone numbers, email addresses, and operating practices for all riders, not just the response teams.

I won't be there but I can provide 2 2M radios and my SPOT Connect if it helps. I live in Arcadia so it's hard to come to meetings in San Diego but I would be happy to help with a cheat sheet.

John