Mojave Trail 11-12,13 - A tubeliss learning experience

[HotRod82 2]

So my normal group of riding buddies decided to do our annual MT trip last weekend and like always there was a little adventure involved. No pics this time, but I will likely throw up some go pro vid once it is forwarded to me. The group widdled down to only 3 of us, myself on my 525, Aaron on his 650L, and Chris on his new Aprillia 550- all fast guys with little dust because of the rain...this is going to be a great ride. The Aprillia is an awesome machine, and will likely be my next bike if I can find one. I asked Chris if he brought tubes etc with him, he smiled and said "don't need em, I went tubeliss and I brought slime." HMMMM, I sneered...I guess we will see. I forced myself to boot up my GPS because I really do need the practice with it. I downloaded Crawdaddy's route from DSM and away we went. We left out of the Holiday Inn Express in Barstow on Sat. morning. I highly recommend this place, newer, CLEAN, great breakfast with an auto pancake maker(!), and they let us park there over the weekend for no charge and so far our trucks have been safe. We took the northern "bypass loop" via pole line road and dropped in to Baker from the North. About 40 miles into our ride, one of my greatest fears happened to Aaron who OF COURSE was riding sweep. For some unknown reason, his OGIO pack came open and he lost everything....wallet, phone, spares, EVERYTHING. I started backtracking but was thinking "how far do we backtrack before we just write it off?" About 3 miles later, we found it all except for one spare tube. Whew, dodged that bullet. Few miles out of Baker, Tubeliss guy gets a front flat. He whips out his slime, mini compressor, back on the road in 5 minutes. "Pretty swanky, I wonder if it will hold?" I thought to myself. The rest of the ride to Laughlin was uneventful although we did get rained on a little dropping into Laughlin. We stayed at Aquarius, again highly recommended as it is the cleanest of all we have tried in Laughlin and they have an Outback steakhouse, as well as a pretty good Italian joint. Heading home Sunday we were twisting the throttle a little enjoying the wet dirt when BAM, tubeliss guy gets another front flat. This time the hole is too big for slime or even plugs, Chris decides to slab it to Baker instead of using our only spare front tube. Aaron and I hustle through the whoop section, zoom by the mailbox and swing up to Baker where Chris is nowhere to be found. Appparently, running on a "flat" tubeliss (the liner did still have air in it)is life threatening at anything above 45mph so it took him a long time to get to Baker. We removed the tubeliss setup (which is now coated in slime thank you) put in a tube and off we went. We had a great ride through Afton but about a mile from the campground I took my eye off the ball and slammed a giant rock at about 60. Didn't crash, but instant flat spots on both excels and TWO stinking flats....UGH. Changed the rear and put 50 lbs in the front and hotfooted it back to Barstow. The Tubeliss deal seems like a good idea but it didn't work out for us. Perhaps a good setup for slower paced riders that don't attack rocky trails at high speed? All in all, still one of my favorite rides.....highly recommended for anyone who has been looking at doing this ride.

[Crawdaddy 96]

New to me 300 XC-W has tubliss front and rear....luckily I'm slow...

[DustyRock 0]

There are the TUbliss lovers and the TUbliss haters. The haters are the ones that had the non repairable flats that left them stranded in the middle of no-where or the inner tube failure without a rimlock to keep the rear tire from spinning. If the inner tube blows for whatever reason you are screwed. Then there are the guys that dont like having to pump up the inner tube to 100+ psi before every ride. I dont run them cause I do not want to spend $200+ on something that I dont think I need. Plus I dont like having to pump my flat up to 10 psi let alone 100+. The idea is great with the unsprung weight & the tire plugs etc. For now I will stick with UHD tubes & everybody has a spare tube if you need one.

[dsfox 0]

I decided to invest in the tubliss set up last winter, hoping for a low maintenance system, supposedly much lighter weight than utra HD tubes, etc... as well as being less a burden on rides, if I don't get flats, because I'm likely to use my overnight emergency supplies on the trail, if I had to rely solely on myself to fully get a dirt tire off and then on again, without help....I carry ALL the tools, supplies, etc at least, so I'm prepared..

I only installed the front tubliss to see how it went.....ran it for a few months with little issue...seemed cool.....few months in I got a tiny puncture in the front tire, slime oozed out, should've been fine., suppose to seal that sort of thing....not a big enough hole to plug....so I pumped more slime in...tried to leave the hole side down and let it set for days....ran ok again for a while....then seeped out again...(started to feel like it wasn't so low maintenance any more, and yes, always worried if something major goes wrong with it in the "outback" somewhere....

rexr was kind enough to come over and help me remove the tire, clean it well and put a big old patch on the inside....re-install tubliss, lots of slime, should be good.....ran a few more months....but recently, a tiny bit of slime seeping out AGAIN.....I have not installed the back set up , and think I won't actually....it is easier to carry tubes, as well as everyone you ride with also has spares, and more knowledge on how to deal with issues etc.....can't say I'm a tubliss hater, but if it stands me once I will be....I do still carry a 21" tube in case of issues front or rear.....BUT I'm still skeptical because the slime doesn't seem to seal even a tiny puncture...

[Maniac 0]

Hmmm. I think tubeless is the right idea. I mean, when was the last time you put a tube in your car tire, right? But maybe the system is just very under-developed on dirtbikes. Seems people are having lots of issues. I think the reason is that we are basically taking rims designed to be used with tubes, and putting in a jury rig system prone to failure.

So, we need wheels ( and of course tires) that are designed to be run without tubes. This has been a reality for some time with cars, street bikes ( yes they are cast wheels not spoke, unless we look at bmw's great system).

It is possible to have spoke wheels that have no tubes, without resorting to the patented bmw wheel. In mountain bike racing, which I partake in, we use special tubeless rims that have another layer of metal outside of the layer that the spokes come through. So, the rim is air tight. That leaves the tire and valve stem. Valve stem is easy. For the tires, there are tubeless specific tires, but otherwise a sealant is used to seal the pores in the tires and also seal small punctures on the trail. This system is more maintenance than tubes, but very worth it in racing applications because of unsprung/ rotating weight advantage, less rolling resistance, lower pressure (no worry of pinch flat) which means better ride and better traction.

I think it just a matter of time before tubeless takes the next step in the dirtbike world. Just like FI will replace carbs... hey, can't stop progress.

But until then sign me up for tried and true tubes. I admit I don't fully buy in to HD tubes... in many years of regular tubes I have had very few flats. Probably because I watch my pressure and try not to hit anything too big on the trail... ( try being the key word...). Now with the trial tire I am using, I put an HD tube because lower pressure is making me worry about a pinch flat. i still think those ultra HD are overkill and too heavy...

[HotRod82 2]

I'm surprised to hear people say it's lighter....if it is, not by much. The problem with the slime is once you use it, patches will no longer stick in the event you have a large puncture and need to use a patch. I think my biggest problem is the DOT tires. I used to run the Maxxis desert tires and RARELY got a flat, now I seem to get a flat every ride and I'm running the HD bridgestone tubes with either Pirelli or Dunlop DOT's. I don't think anything would have saved me this trip, the square edge I hit was a monster.....should have been looking where I was going I guess!

[ADV Bum 205]

With anything you need to be prepared for what equipment you are using.

Tubliss tire flat.

Inner bladder fails - have spare bladder

Slime does not seal a hole - plug kit

Hole to big for plug - rubber patch on inside of tire. I carry small bottle of cleaning agent and cleaning wipes to clean slime. If the hole is to big and

wont seal at least the tire will be held in place and sidewalls stiff by design of tubliss. A hole that big is going to be

popping tubes.

[Beta450 0]

I run the Tubliss system front and rear with the MT 43 Trial tires at 13 lbs of air. On friday I was out riding in a wash and hit a rock doing about 25 mph. The rim put an 1 inch gash on the side wall of the rear tire. I lost air in the tire but the Tubliss system worked and I was able to ride the bike back to the truck.

I like the Tubliss system but the only worry I have is if the inner bladder goes bad im screwed. It is really hard to put 100 lbs of air in the inner blader on the trail.

[Strega 0]

Seems like Tubliss to me is like a lithium battery in my camera, they're both hard to find parts for in the middle of nowhere. I'm ginna stick with Bridgestone Ultra Heavy Duty tubes, spares and a patch kit and regular AA batteries in my camera I can find almost anywhere.

[eddie 0]

+1

Seems like Tubliss to me is like a lithium battery in my camera, they're both hard to find parts for in the middle of nowhere. I'm ginna stick with Bridgestone Ultra Heavy Duty tubes, spares and a patch kit and regular AA batteries in my camera I can find almost anywhere.

[DustyRock 0]

Seems like Tubliss to me is like a lithium battery in my camera, they're both hard to find parts for in the middle of nowhere. I'm ginna stick with Bridgestone Ultra Heavy Duty tubes, spares and a patch kit and regular AA batteries in my camera I can find almost anywhere.

Right on.

About that camera.... When my Nikon L10 that uses AA bats finally gave up the ghost @ Bar 10 wasnt it you & Reed that talked me into buying the Olympus Tough ? BTW I really like the Tough....... Didnt mean to high-jack.....

[bikeslut 1]

Seems like Tubliss to me is like a lithium battery in my camera, they're both hard to find parts for in the middle of nowhere. I'm ginna stick with Bridgestone Ultra Heavy Duty tubes, spares and a patch kit and regular AA batteries in my camera I can find almost anywhere.

this is my feeling too... double A batteries in my camera, a common japanese motorcycle between my legs, and tubes in my tires

not that I ever get flats

[Crawdaddy 96]

I'll be on the WR250R "solo" on Mojave Rd. next week as well as many other places in NV./AZ........glad I have Bridgestone UHD & MT43s on that bike.....

[Guest Crusty]

I have the Tubliss system front and rear on 2 of my bikes. I love them for going fast in rocks.

I have run them for 2 years now.

I have had 1 inner bladder failure and 1 tire failure.

What tires you use make a big difference.

The Tubliss system allows you to run lower tire pressure without getting pinch flats.

I use to pinch flat a lot.

I have not had a pinch flat using the Tubliss System

I did have 1 tire failure that caused a bad crash.

I couldn't tell the tire was flat till it rolled coming out of a corner.

I still am using Tubliss but am thinking of going to Bib Mouse,

front tire only on my CR 500

[Strega 0]

Right on.

About that camera.... When my Nikon L10 that uses AA bats finally gave up the ghost @ Bar 10 wasnt it you & Reed that talked me into buying the Olympus Tough ? BTW I really like the Tough....... Didnt mean to high-jack.....

I have a tough 3000 and 6020, they're both great Waiting for the lens to die on the Coolpix with the AA's.

[Bagstr 288]

Everyone knows you put film in a camera, duh.

[dsfox 0]

Well, on the patching.....we TOTALLY cleaned the tire with solvents etc, then dried it.....etc prior to patching....then re installed the tubliss....STILL seeped in time, even with the large patch.....maybe the glue was bad??? I wouldv'e bailed on the tire, but it was almost new ...

[ORANGEBLOOD 0]

I run the Bib Mousse on my 525 and love them. At my size I'm forced to run higher pressure than I would like, but with the Bib Mousse its like running the lower pressure with out the risk of flats, It doesn't stop me bending the rims but nothing does. I tried the tubeliss on my 690, only to find that they won't work. The rims are too big so they cant seal. Perfect seems to be elusive, just like the prefect bike. My personal search has lead me to the MotoZ tires with HD tubes, the stiffer casing allow me to lower the pressure some. I will still keep the Bib Mousse for Baja where I don't want to deal with flats ever, it also easier to keep the bike on dirt and off the pavement which is where I have found some draw backs. Too much highway and the Bib's heat up and can melt to ruin them, they also tend to start to ride like a flat when they get that hot. Expensive to replace after the ride. Multiple wheels set up for different types of rides is the Bomb. 17" supermotos for around town, DOT MotoZ's with HD tubes for club rides, and Desert IT's with Bib Mousse for Baja rides. Perfect set ups for every ride.

Just my two cents,

[HotRod82 2]

I run the Bib Mousse on my 525 and love them. At my size I'm forced to run higher pressure than I would like, but with the Bib Mousse its like running the lower pressure with out the risk of flats, It doesn't stop me bending the rims but nothing does. I tried the tubeliss on my 690, only to find that they won't work. The rims are too big so they cant seal. Perfect seems to be elusive, just like the prefect bike. My personal search has lead me to the MotoZ tires with HD tubes, the stiffer casing allow me to lower the pressure some. I will still keep the Bib Mousse for Baja where I don't want to deal with flats ever, it also easier to keep the bike on dirt and off the pavement which is where I have found some draw backs. Too much highway and the Bib's heat up and can melt to ruin them, they also tend to start to ride like a flat when they get that hot. Expensive to replace after the ride. Multiple wheels set up for different types of rides is the Bomb. 17" supermotos for around town, DOT MotoZ's with HD tubes for club rides, and Desert IT's with Bib Mousse for Baja rides. Perfect set ups for every ride.

Just my two cents,

You and I have had similar experiences....the heating issue with the Moose's caused me some trouble on some higher speed dirt roads in Baja, and on the pavement. Pure dirt riding they were excellent although quite a few bent wheels in the rocks. I am going to experiment with some lighter initial compression dampening in the front of my 525 to try to ward off the rockbites as well. I have been avoiding this because my forks are perfect the way they are and my bike is really well balanced. Overall, the Bridgestone HD tubes with a Pirelli front tire aired up to 18lbs (when its rocky) is working pretty well.