Morgan Freeman solves the race problem..

[SCHWINN 0]

While he is at it can he do away with Affimative Action,BET Tv, and Black Only Colleges..Yes - I want your views, especially Zenosan...

[BelnapAir 0]

"Who's the cat that won't cop out, when theres danger all about?"

[SCHWINN 0]

"Who's the cat that won't cop out, when theres danger all about?"

FELIX the Cat

[Zenosan 2]

I have to agree with Morgan Freeman.

But my view is even more extreme. Scientifically races don't exist. They are social constructs like ethnic identity. Anthropologists gave up the idea of a race over 100 years ago. They are biologically meaningless. A "breed" is not a real category because there are no real categories in nature. There are only more or less similar individuals comming from more or less fixed or dispersed gene pools. Thus an Arabian horse which has been line bred for over two thousand years will produce an offspring that looks a lot like the parents. A quarter horse has only been around for a couple of hundred years so has a very dispersed gene pool and may produce an offspring that doesn't look much like the parents. The same applies to people. Polynesians have been isolated for a long time so they have a very fixed gene pool. The offspring tend to look a lot like the parents. While Europeans have been wandering around the world breeding with all sorts of groups. Thus their gene pools tend to be very dispersed. Their offspring often don't look much like the immediate parents. A good example of a dispersed gene pool is the variety of hair colors produced by Europeans. Races like "families" are a myth.

[paulmbowers 236]

Loathe as I am to counterpoint Zenosan, I think you overlook "culture" (or the perception thereof). Biologically, we agree- but it's historically clear people interact and group with those most like themselves. These groups are cultures and those cultures are can be very powerful- a perfect example is the tax-free status of churches.

I'm not saying the idea of culture is bad- we have a culture here and many of us benefit from our association. But how many non-white riders are there?

[One of Mad Magazine's famous "Worlds Thinnest Books" was entitled "Prominent Black Yachtsman"]

So- these cultures perpetuate some of the stigmas and characteristics of it's members- White Men Can't Jump, gay men can't have kids, etc.

I completely agree with Freeman- the more color blind we become, the faster we'll progress as a nation.

[Mistress of the dual 1]

Not the best example with the horses. If you really knew about horse husbandry you would know that the offspring of two AQHA registered Quarter Horses has every likelyhood of looking like its parents as the offspring of two AHA registered Arabians. Especially since Arabians have been changed so drasticly in the last 50 years that they hardly resemble the Arabian of 100 years ago far less 500 years ago. I have a Quarter Horse that looks and acts like his uncle on the top side, has his sire's feet, moves exactly like his sire, has his dam's curly mane and grinds his teeth the same as his dam. Don't even get me started on how similair his half sister is to her parents.

[bikeslut 1]

cheers to Morgan Freeman

While I won't discount somebody's culture or ethnicity as a part of who they are, celebrating people

s differences doesn't sit well with me.

I expect there are still places where somebody may be held back because of their physical appearance... I don't want to go to those places

Affirmative action is crazy (to me)... and I have been on the opposite side of that (somebody was promoted because they "diversified" our management team... that is totally off the record of course)

I'm fine with getting rid of the hyphenated-American too... Morgan Freeman is EVERY bit as American as I am.

Schwinn- I agree with you, and there is nothing racist about it

[Zenosan 2]

Not the best example with the horses. If you really knew about horse husbandry you would know that the offspring of two AQHA registered Quarter Horses has every likelyhood of looking like its parents as the offspring of two AHA registered Arabians. Especially since Arabians have been changed so drasticly in the last 50 years that they hardly resemble the Arabian of 100 years ago far less 500 years ago. I have a Quarter Horse that looks and acts like his uncle on the top side, has his sire's feet, moves exactly like his sire, has his dam's curly mane and grinds his teeth the same as his dam. Don't even get me started on how similair his half sister is to her parents.

Don't Take The Finger For The Moon

You missed my point. Read my post more carefully. Anecdotal evidence does not establish the traits of a fixed gene pool, for Quarter Horses or Arabians. Fixed gene pools take many generations and a long time to get established. Even then they are not usually viable for long without some diversification because the biological enviornments that sustain them are constantly evolving.

By the way, I lived on a ranch in New Mexico in the early 70's while at the University of New Mexico. I had Arabians and most of my friends and neighbors had Quarter Horses. A former professor and good friend of mine bred and raced Thorobred race horses. I am well aware of the attempts by horse line breeders to establish a stable set of traits that could be reliably passed from one generation to the next that could be used as the defining traits of the breed. Somehow the randomness of genetics in reproduction always got in the way. There never was or will be any one set of Arabian or Quarter Horse traits that all the members of each group will have in common. They will alway only be more or less similar or different depending on which traits you emphasize. Artificial selection by humans still has to deal with the randomness of genetics in reproduction. In the end, there really is no such thing as a stable set of Arabian horseness or a Quarter horseness traits. The categories are usually based on a Paradigm Case that is used as a standard. The Paradigm Case changes over time.

[bikeslut 1]

, has his dam's curly mane and grinds his teeth the same as his dam.

Sounds like they need a dam brux

[Zenosan 2]

Loathe as I am to counterpoint Zenosan, I think you overlook "culture" (or the perception thereof).

Paul

I have to agree that culture is a powerfull force with most people. My only complaint is that too many people become Culture Bound and take their cultures far too seriously because they are unaware of how much it molds them. Here is a cartoon you might enjoy done by Orson Wells of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. The Cave is Plato's metaphor for culture. I have used this cartoon in my wife's third grade classes as well as college Philosophy classes.

[paulmbowers 236]

Well, Z, consider the source- it's Charles Foster Kane for cryin' out loud.

Didn't he start a war just to sell newspapers?

Here's why Plato is wrong:

Just kidding. It does, however, completely exclude the role of education and parents. A good parent won't allow a child to have a myopic view. I'll grant you that's a tough call, but it IS possible. My parents were raised in the racist south of the 40s and made huge efforts to overcome that thinking and to avoid passing their childhood culture on to their kids.

[Strega 0]

My parents were raised in the racist south of the 40s and made huge efforts to overcome that thinking and to avoid passing their childhood culture on to their kids.

But...but...what about all that talk on the Grand Canyon trip about how much you loathe Honda?

(ok that didn't really happen...maybe I was projecting...wait, it wasn't Honda, it was something else...)

[Zenosan 2]

Well, Z, consider the source- it's Charles Foster Kane for cryin' out loud.

Wasn't he also the guy (in his latter more portly years) who would "sell no wine before its time"?

[Bagstr 288]

We are Soo Tribal. The human mind is wired to define the We and the They. Around the world it is demonstrated by physical appearance, language or religion. Apparently, We need to gather among our team ( read Orange Crew ) for security, and identify a They group ( read BMW Offroaders / Suzuki riders, etc ) to pound on in order to validate ourselves.

Those with the power define the rules. ( read investment bankers ) The rest of us dance to the tune.

See how easy it is!

[paulmbowers 236]

Well, Z, consider the source- it's Charles Foster Kane for cryin' out loud.

Wasn't he also the guy (in his latter more portly years) who would "sell no wine before its time"?

Old age was not kind to Orson Welles. Look only to The Third Man, Touch of Evil and The Magnificent Ambersons.

Genius.

[carguy 1]

This is a very good topic. I am still trying to figure how my company can have Gay & Lesbian, Latino, Black, asian, women and other groups. If I were to ask for a group that is missing, (Motorcyclist that is)I would be called crazy.

I guess we motorcyclist should be grouped with all vehicle users.

[BelnapAir 0]

"Who's the cat that won't cop out, when theres danger all about?"

FELIX the Cat

SHAFT!