post mortem and re-birth

[bikeslut 1]

as most of you are aware... I recently had an "up close and personal" interaction with the pavement at 70 mph... tranny locked up, and I couldn't keep it tracking...

first things first: call my wife and she doesn't answer... then start the SDAR Emergency Hot lines... first call answered by paulmbowers; and immediately, he is on the way to bail me out

next; get caught up on some work, save up some wife brownie points, re-allocate some funds, and get the work done... lots of advice, help and humor from the SDAR group again: Don, racerbill, paul, trophy... offers of actual help from numerous people too; forgive me if I forget somebody... Dirt Dame, Strega and tntmo for sure offered...

Tom made the mistake of posting on his facebook page that he has a week off and looking for trouble... so I stepped up and offered some trouble... some haggling, offers and two days later:

he has the motor pulled

in all of it's seized glory

so; he digs a little deeper

still not deep enough

THAT oughtta do it

So; Tom informs me that- the spinning thingie stuck on the outputting whatchamacallit, sending me sliding on the assfaultyoucallit

A short list of parts, quite a few hours, and Tom thinks he can have it back on the road...

a hearty thanks to everybody here; this club rocks

Special Thanks to Tom and Mimi; both who said they would do the work.. outside of my time and talent limits

[Uncle Champ 116]

But why did the spinning thingamajig stick on the output watchamacallit? I don't want that to happen to me, it could end my modeling career. Or worse it could scare the holy bejeebers out of me.

Was there oily stuff in the trans thingy?

And (sternly)lets not let that happen again young man!

[bikeslut 1]

I checked it before this (and every) ride...when I drained it, it was pretty dark.

Tom will probably chime in after a while; he said the rest of the engine looked ok...hhip happens I guess...

I will for sure consider using the right tool for the job and probably keep this one more on dirt, and use the DRZ for freeway jaunts

s

[tntmo 911]

Chiming in, took today off to go expend some ammunition after spending yesterday tearing into the slutmobile. Most everything came apart pretty decent, the swingarm pivot bolt was frozen in place so it took a bit of soaking with some penetrating oil and a lot of love taps with a brass drift. Word to the wise for the rest of us out there, keep your swingarm bearings lubed.

The cams, cylinder, valves, crank, etc all look good. All the bearings are in great shape. All the other gears in the transmission look good. I think the bearing/gear just had a mechanical failure. If there was a lack of lubrication I feel that there should be plenty of other evidence of it.

I'll try to get some good (non cell phone) pictures of the gear and shaft. It's siezed on there pretty good, I tried pressing it off with my 20 ton press and gave up because I thought it would shatter the gear. I might put on some safety glasses and try it later. The gear has some nice blue heat marks on it but the rest of the output shaft looks good.

Any input (even yours PaulB) is encouraged!

[Zenosan 2]

when I drained it, it was pretty dark.

That usually means the oil was cooked...overheated and lost much of its viscosity. The main reason for frequent oil changes is not dirt but overheating.

[SteelRain 0]

I just learned about this last night... Major SuckFest for BS.

In the future feel free to put me on your call list if you need a rescue.

[bikeslut 1]

when I drained it, it was pretty dark.

That usually means the oil was cooked...overheated and lost much of its viscosity. The main reason for frequent oil changes is not dirt but overheating.

So...chicken or the egg? Is the oil overcooked because the bearing was fried, making a simmering pan in the crankcase, or is the bearing seized because the oil lost viscosity

I'm not very mechanical, but it would seem to me the top end would show evidence of underr-oiling, no?

[Zenosan 2]

That usually means the oil was cooked...overheated and lost much of its viscosity. The main reason for frequent oil changes is not dirt but overheating.

So...chicken or the egg? Is the oil overcooked because the bearing was fried, making a simmering pan in the crankcase, or is the bearing seized because the oil lost viscosity

I'm not very mechanical, but it would seem to me the top end would show evidence of underr-oiling, no?

The top end is cooled by the water jacket. The gear box does not have a water jacket, only the oil to cool it. Since the top end did not sieze that tells you it was not the cooling system but rather in the gear box. The bearing could have gone bad on its own but not likely.

I am still suspecting cooked oil.

Edit

By the way I like the photos of the gearbox. Nice looking and clean gears.

[dirt dame 561]

Oil thins, then cavitates, pair that up with sustained high RPMS and possibly not the best engineered flow routes in the lubrication system and dooky happens sometimes.

[tntmo 911]

The top end is cooled by the water jacket. The gear box does not have a water jacket, only the oil to cool it. Since the top end did not sieze that tells you it was not the cooling system but rather in the gear box. The bearing could have gone bad on its own but not likely.

I am still suspecting cooked oil.

While it's true the top end of the engine is cooled by water, the top end is lubricated by oil. This engine had good oil flow through the entire engine, even the other gears on the same shaft are in good shape. I suspect the cooked oil is a byproduct from the fried bearing. The heat marks on it and the fact that it siezed on the shaft and spit The Slutty One to the ground at 75mph are pretty impressive.

Mechanical things fail, that's good news for mechanics and bad news for consumers.

[tntmo 911]

And as Mimi said, "Dooky happens."

[Zenosan 2]

No way to settle this at this point. But I still would like to have a sample of the bike's oil before he took off on that fateful day.

[bikeslut 1]

yep... hindsight is still 20/20

I would've changed the oil (it was changed 2 rides before this)... but; it was not black on the dipstick the morning of the ride... I had gone about 15 miles at 70+ mph

also- it's not like none of us have ever heard this about dirt bikes with plates... less oil capacity, flow challenges, weak 5th gears, oil starvation, etc.

and, if you remember my ride report, I took a picture of my WR and the DRZ in front of my house, as I was mulling over my decision... and my feeble mind said "DRZ better for the long freeway ride, but once I hit dirt, I'll want to be on the WR" I can't say I was ever "shocked" about the whole thing.

Don- can't provide the "after" oil, but the "before" oil didn't look bad

SO- anybody ever hear of adding an oil cooler, capacity improver to this type of bike? I know DR650s have them, and XR650Ls could use them...

[tntmo 911]

Yeah, I'm not the best at the CSI type of investigation after the fact. The bike had oil, it was black and it looks like everything else was lubricated. I usually run about 500 miles on my WR400 before I change the oil, sometimes quite a bit more than that. I rode it to work every day for a week, taken it to a few desert dash rides and plenty of high mileage weekend desert trips.

Anyway, I felt like trying to get the gear off the output shaft this morning. The other day I put it in my 20 ton press and pumped it up until things started making scary noises and it didn't budge. Here are some pictures of the gear and output shaft, you can see the heat marks on it.

I figured since heat got us into this problem, heat would get us out of it. I broke out my oxy/acytelene torch and started putting the heat on the gear while the press kept the pressure on it. After a few minutes it started to break free a little bit and made more scary noises.

A bit more heat, some smoke and it decided to let loose.

Looks pretty ugly.

It took a lot of heat and pressure to get that thing loose, but it should probably buff right out.

[Zenosan 2]

Bob

My friend Gawin in Page added an oil cooler to his air cooled XR400. I am sure there are oil cooler kits available. In the early 80's Honda and several other mfgs went to using the hollow frame of the bike as an oil cooler. My 86 XL600 uses that system. Roller and ball bearings usually pulverize rather than sieze in an oil bath. That is the reason I suspect excessive heat rapidly expanded the races and squeezed the balls to the point where they could no longer roll. Did you notice a progressive drag on the engine before it siezed?

[Zenosan 2]

I would replace the shaft and the gear. That kind of heat changes the temper of the steel.

[bikeslut 1]

I would replace the shaft and the gear. That kind of heat changes the temper of the steel.

I'm sure ( ) he was kidding... he already ordered the parts to replace them

[tntmo 911]

I would replace the shaft and the gear. That kind of heat changes the temper of the steel.

I'm sure ( ) he was kidding... he already ordered the parts to replace them

Kidding?

Yeah, those parts are scrap metal. I just figured it would be fun to see what it looked like.

Don, there are no roller or ball bearings on those gears, just a plain bearing.

[SCHWINN 0]

I loved my street legal CRF 450R for off-road stuff but was always scared of long street rides in between the trails is why I sold it and bought the KTM 525 and now the KTM 690.

I dragged up this old photo that Randy took of my buddy on his KTM and me on the CRF and Cody at the 2006??Dash

[bikeslut 1]

I just learned about this last night... Major SuckFest for BS.

In the future feel free to put me on your call list if you need a rescue.

thanks! (you are already on my list... er... my rescue list)

To all "contributing members", if you haven't taken the info from the list of rescuers, you should get it and put it in your cell phone

I have about 10 or so of the people I know best built into my phone... I know at least ONE of you would make sure I got the help I needed. I called Paul first, because I knew he was home (or close to it), and would be able and willing to pick me up. I was pretty shaken up at the time, and actually felt like I was going in to shock (chills, flush, light headed, etc.) so I gave him the quick details first, before I passed out (which I didn't) I knew he would get me picked up

In these kind of situations, I think it may be more important to call your rescue rather than your family... family gets emotional, and wants all sorts of details, etc. Riding buddies, generally know the score, and will get the real important stuff handled... transportation for you and your bike; mild ribbing to keep your mind off the pain... and a bathroom rug for your seat, so you don't soil his new leather seats with tar (or other)

[bikeslut 1]

I loved my street legal CRF 450R for off-road stuff but was always scared of long street rides in between the trails is why I sold it and bought the KTM 525 and now the KTM 690.

I dragged up this old photo that Randy took of my buddy on his KTM and me on the CRF and Cody at the 2006??Dash

agreed... I think my DRZ can do pretty much any ride I want; upgrade the seat and it would even be comfortable

I think the WR will be for more intense rides that are dirt oriented, and the desert...

[Zenosan 2]

Nice photos Tom. Since it was just a bored gear on a shaft that locked up there is a possiblilty a small random metal shaving could have started it (giving Bob the benefit of the doubt on the cooked oil). Was there an oil passage through the shaft opening up to lube the gear that seized? I noticed one right before the siezed gear. Could have been a restricted oil passage.

[bikeslut 1]

I'm starting to wonder if bikes I buy used are just now "really" being ridden... like the guy who told me "only rideen to church on Sundays by a little old lady"

Maybe that's the truth...

[SteelRain 0]

I'm starting to wonder if bikes I buy used are just now "really" being ridden...

maybe you should just buy a "Real bike and get it over with...

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Calm down, it was a joke.

[paulmbowers 236]

I knew he would get me picked up

He just wanted to ride in the new car.

(yes, I'm home)