Diagnosis.

[paulmbowers 236]

In our last episode from another thread, I mentioned my recent noisy motor. That noisy motor quit running (locked up) requiring a long trip back to pavement and resulted in a particularly unusual image to be freely floating around the internet, alleging a brief affair with a fellow member. Untrue, I assure you.

But I've come to you, fellow members for assistance. I pulled the top of the head- the valve cover- off the motor in an effort to diagnose the problem. If it was something minor, I'd fix it myself, but based on the marbley noises I've had for several weeks, I think this motor may be headed to intensive care.

But. I've pulled the valve inspection covers (where you adjust the valves) off and noticed one of the little footie-deals was broken off the adjuster. Huh. So I continued to pull off the cam housing/cover, and I've thoughtfully linked a photo below.

I dunno. Can anybody find a reason why this bike might not be running?

[dirt dame 559]

No spinning sprocket wheel dealie?

[kellymac530 0]

nothing that i can see...except that cam drive "chain" seems to magically invisible

definately light weight drive chain and low rotation resistance

[paulmbowers 236]

nothing that i can see...except that cam drive "chain" seems to magically invisible

definately light weight drive chain and low rotation resistance

Winner!

Yeah- looks more like a table saw....

[blind_in_1_ear 0]

that's the craziest watch i have ever seen!!

[kellymac530 0]

i would just like to thank the academy, my family, and all of those that have supported me since the begining and believed in me

[Strega 0]

Did the tensioner fail?

[Spaugh 1]

the tappet fell off and interfered with the chain. are all the nuts still on the valve adjusters? assuming you have a screen behind your flywheel, your problems are going to be pretty easy to fix. the screen was something they started putting in 2003, not all of them got em.

can you post a picture of the tappet arm thats missing the tappet?

[bikeslut 1]

too easy- so; it sounds pretty easy, assuming you fish out the chain, and all assorted bits, right?

Those cam chain thingies are a pretty important part of a motor

[paulmbowers 236]

Well, sorta.

Here's the deal- the bike had been making the knarly lower end marbley sound for weeks, but also began a tappety sound. Then it died.

So, the timing chain is way down in the crankcase somewhere- I can even see it looking down there. But the tappet foot is just sitting on the guide- I can see it if I look down the head. Which means, at least to me, that it stopped there after the chain failed.

At this point, if I could get hold of the chain to bring it back up to the head, and even if there's no valve damage, etc, I'm still left with the lower-end marbley sound.

So, I've pulled the motor and off it goes to have the case split and the builder. It's more than I'd like to get into.

[DigDug 0]

Well, sorta.

Here's the deal- the bike had been making the knarly lower end marbley sound for weeks, but also began a tappety sound. Then it died.

So, the timing chain is way down in the crankcase somewhere- I can even see it looking down there. But the tappet foot is just sitting on the guide- I can see it if I look down the head. Which means, at least to me, that it stopped there after the chain failed.

At this point, if I could get hold of the chain to bring it back up to the head, and even if there's no valve damage, etc, I'm still left with the lower-end marbley sound.

So, I've pulled the motor and off it goes to have the case split and the builder. It's more than I'd like to get into.

You're going to need a bike to ride in the meantime!

CLICK HERE PAUL

Signed,

The Instigator!

[kellymac530 0]

what if the rattle was a loose nut or something in there from the top end ?

oh well its only money right...

fakey..thanx for helping keep ktm in business for me

seriously diggity is right...you will need a bike for a while....you want mine while im riding the lazyboy?

[Spaugh 1]

your chain is not way down in the cases somewhere, its behind your flywheel and completely seperated from the crankcase. you need take your ignition cover off and remove the flywheel to remove the old chain. no removing the cylinder or splitting the cases. Buy a new 70$ timing chain and 10$ chain guides, a new tappet, a 12 pack of pale ale and lets fix it.

the sound you heard was something in the top end failing, your bottom most likely is not affected like bob said as long as you can retrieve all of the parts.

its your money, and I understand seems like a big clusterfuuck but its really not going to be hard to repair. let me know if you want help.

[paulmbowers 236]

Thanks, everybody!

I'm unfortunately not confident it was a top end sound, and RJ at AA ktm agreed. I'll take it up to Bob Hulka and let him decide. I'm not overwhelmed at these issues, I've built motors in the past. But I was reminded how much it sucks to be stranded, so I'm over-the-top careful. If Hulka pulls the flywheel and finds a sound of a crank-related noise without splitting the case, we're all golden.

[paulmbowers 236]

Well, sorta.

Here's the deal- the bike had been making the knarly lower end marbley sound for weeks, but also began a tappety sound. Then it died.

So, the timing chain is way down in the crankcase somewhere- I can even see it looking down there. But the tappet foot is just sitting on the guide- I can see it if I look down the head. Which means, at least to me, that it stopped there after the chain failed.

At this point, if I could get hold of the chain to bring it back up to the head, and even if there's no valve damage, etc, I'm still left with the lower-end marbley sound.

So, I've pulled the motor and off it goes to have the case split and the builder. It's more than I'd like to get into.

You're going to need a bike to ride in the meantime!

CLICK HERE PAUL

Signed,

The Instigator!

Yes! Color is right, too!

Here's another image I'd have to add:

[kellymac530 0]

mine is the right color and free to you for a short term visit...no divorce neccesary...no rear footpegs for your boyfriend tho

[paulmbowers 236]

Ok, dammit you guys.

First, I've received no less than four (!) offers of bikes to loan during this process. That's big, guys- thank you. Loaning a bike is like loaning a...well.. you know. Loaning something close to you.

Second, I've had a long drive and a chance to reconsider, and I think I shouldn't wuss out. So, as advised by Brad, I will be pulling the flywheel and inspecting the lower bits. I figure I've got nothing to lose- even if the marbley noise is still there, I'll have a new timing chain, tensioner, guide and assorted bits. It's not that I didn't want anyone's help- please take no offense, I just needed to determine a strategy.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Brad: The adjusters and nuts are all intact, just the bottom broke off of that one foot. The intake valve that is actuated by that rocker has a small witness mark on the spring retainer, and the valve keepers look a little out of place. But they are still holding the spring in place, and it's possible I can hold the valve with some finger pressure through the intake and tap a few times on the top of the valve to reposition them.

I'll make a parts list and an order from Munn.

Thanks again everyone for your support. Wish me luck. Brad: Brand of beer?

[blind_in_1_ear 0]

if you need any blood..gimme a call!!

...seriously, if you need ANY help gimme a call, i am sorta near you and all...

[kellymac530 0]

my bike is just sitting right now...somebody has to keep the battery charged

[Spaugh 1]

Ok, dammit you guys.

First, I've received no less than four (!) offers of bikes to loan during this process. That's big, guys- thank you. Loaning a bike is like loaning a...well.. you know. Loaning something close to you.

Second, I've had a long drive and a chance to reconsider, and I think I shouldn't wuss out. So, as advised by Brad, I will be pulling the flywheel and inspecting the lower bits. I figure I've got nothing to lose- even if the marbley noise is still there, I'll have a new timing chain, tensioner, guide and assorted bits. It's not that I didn't want anyone's help- please take no offense, I just needed to determine a strategy.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Brad: The adjusters and nuts are all intact, just the bottom broke off of that one foot. The intake valve that is actuated by that rocker has a small witness mark on the spring retainer, and the valve keepers look a little out of place. But they are still holding the spring in place, and it's possible I can hold the valve with some finger pressure through the intake and tap a few times on the top of the valve to reposition them.

I'll make a parts list and an order from Munn.

Thanks again everyone for your support. Wish me luck. Brad: Brand of beer?

do you want my flywheel puller? for the valve that has the crooked keepers, ,maybe you will be able to hold it from the intakeand then push down on the spring retainer and straighten them, just don't scratch the valve stem. you already have the chain broken so you could just pull the head off and take a look in there to see how the cylinder and valves look and use a real valve spring compressor tool to fix the keepers. I have that tool if you want it. It really isn't that much more work at this point. Just tell me when and I'll help you do it.

maybe take the flywheel off and see if you can collect all the parts and inspect the damage to the chain guides to start with then decide how to proceed. that costs you nothing.

[dirt dame 559]

you already have the chain broken so you could just pull the head off and take a look in there to see how the cylinder and valves look and use a real valve spring compressor tool to fix the keepers.

Might as well pull the head and check to see if any of your valves are bent or leaking. It's a simple check and will tell you if your valves are seating properly.

[paulmbowers 236]

I think the head is where I'll draw the line. The motor only has 250 hours on it, and it's a DJH head with SS KW valves. I'm going to assume the heads OK for right now. If I have to tear into it, it will go back to the builder.

Yes, a flywheel puller would be nice, I'll be in touch.

[paulmbowers 236]

I'm replacing (among other things) the guides, chain etc. Should I also replace the tensioner? It looks fine, and is not old. It's also $35.

Oh- who has a cam chain tool? BS?

[dirt dame 559]

I think the head is where I'll draw the line. The motor only has 250 hours on it, and it's a DJH head with SS KW valves. I'm going to assume the heads OK for right now.

Just sayin'. If the piston nicked one of your valves when the chain let go....

[paulmbowers 236]

Yeah, I know, I don't disagree with you. But I don't think the RFS is an interference motor, no? And if I'm wrong, the penalty will be poor performance, not more damage.