Radios and bike-to-bike com systems

[paulmbowers 236]

First, let the record show that Roger was singing as well. So you may have had us confused.

The max power output from the ht is 5 watts, and the vx-170s are doing that. It was definitely on your front-end audio, and maybe the mic gain control is your answer.

[darylhunter 1]

I downloaded the IC-T7H user manual from Icom, but didn't see any microphone gain adjustment.

Also downloaded the shop manual and while I saw an adjustment for deviation, I didn't see anything for mic gain.

You try asking the folks at HRO.

Send me a PM if you want copies of the manuals and I'll email you a link to them.

[Zenosan 2]

Daryl, Thanks for reminding me how FM works. It’s been a long time since Junior High electronics class. I remember the old potentiometer gain controls.

Now that I understand how it works I need to find my owners manual. I have an Icon IC-T7H dualband transceiver. I went to the ICON web site but I can’t download the manual for some reason. Again I’m sure there is a simple reason for that but I don’t know what it is. If all else fails I’ll have to go to the Ham Outlet store and see if the can instruct me on how to adjust it.

But really I don’t sing very well so way would anyone want to hear me clearly? :curtsey:

In case anyone is interested I have a Nady PRC-8 new in the box that came with my 1986 Yamaha Virago from South Bay Yamaha in 1986.

http://www.hansacine.com/public_add_sys/na...ics_details.htm

[ssaint 0]

A couple of quesitons for all of you acknowledged radio experts....

First, I have seen it mentioned in here that "simplex" is short range. I THOUGHT simplex was were you transmitted and recieved on the same frequency. Is it short range only because you are not using a repeater? Somebody please enlighten me.

Second, I would like to get some idea of the expected range of this setup that has been talked about here (the yaesu) (both with stock anrtenna and with the smiley). I plan on using this system in baja a lot where we can get sometimes very far from each other and it would be nice to know how far it will work. One time a miscommunication on the dry lake bed had our riders spread out over about a 10 mile line, no good.

Last, how are the connections in the BD system these days? Are they Nexis? The Nexis connector seems the most durable to me. I previously had a motocomm setup (which sucked) and broke the conenctors pretty easily. I know Avcomm runs nexis but is a fwe dollars more money.

Thanks!

[paulmbowers 236]

A couple of quesitons for all of you acknowledged radio experts....

First, I have seen it mentioned in here that "simplex" is short range. I THOUGHT simplex was were you transmitted and recieved on the same frequency. Is it short range only because you are not using a repeater? Somebody please enlighten me.

Second, I would like to get some idea of the expected range of this setup that has been talked about here (the yaesu) (both with stock anrtenna and with the smiley). I plan on using this system in baja a lot where we can get sometimes very far from each other and it would be nice to know how far it will work. One time a miscommunication on the dry lake bed had our riders spread out over about a 10 mile line, no good.

Last, how are the connections in the BD system these days? Are they Nexis? The Nexis connector seems the most durable to me. I previously had a motocomm setup (which sucked) and broke the conenctors pretty easily. I know Avcomm runs nexis but is a fwe dollars more money.

Thanks!

Let's see if I can help.

Yes, simplex is where you transmit and receive on the same frequency without repeaters. The lack of repeaters is the range limiting factor.

The answer for range is very easy: It varies. Helpful, I know.

On a dry lakebed, you're probably good for a mile or MAYBE two. The vx170 is a 5 watt radio, and that's about the most power you can get in a handheld unit. In forest or hills, the range is significantly shorter. It is, however, far better than the Rinos or the other frms radios, I don't care what they say on the package. The smiley antenna will help, but I have no testing data other than personal experience.

Once you're spread out that far, the radios won't help you very much. But they really do help avoiding that spread out. The key is to keep in touch if you have no visual. Good technique helps- if I'm leading, I will periodically ask for folks to check in. Or, I'll ask the group (or the sweep rider) to let me know when they pass a landmark that I'll call out- the drainage ditch or something. That way , I have an idea how far the group is spaced. Contact with the sweep rider is crucial- "Let me know when everybody has made that turn" is typical. If you, as lead rider, don't hear anything, you need to stop and regroup.

By keeping in touch this way, you can ride hard and fast for a long time.

If there is a "fast rider" in the group, we'll let him fly out ahead, but ask that he stay within radio range. That way, he gets to go fast for a while, but we don't lose anyone.

The nexus connectors are pretty reliable. The motocomm and others use a multi-pin din connector that's probably great for connecting one time, but it's duty cycle is weak. BD used to offer an rca connector to the PTT switch- I use one- and it's pretty reliable as well. But the latest versions BD has been releasing have all been nexus. RCA versions can be purchased from Racer-X in their Avcomm line, but be aware Racer=X's warranty police is pathetic.

The weak link in these systems are the PTT switches. BD has a new design that MIGHT be better.

[ssaint 0]

Yeah, I read about the PTT problems. Worst case I am OK wiring up a kill switch as someone else did.

WOW, that does seem like poor range. I had hoped for more, although there is no way I am going to use repeaters.

That time we lost the guy on the dry lake bed we ran into some baja racers (with radios) and they were able to help us out communicating with their buddy in a buggy. Granted the buggy has a 25W radio and whip antenna, but they were able to talk 10 miles or so across the lake bed. I am sure they have the best stuff but I had hoped for this kind of money we could do a bit better than a mile.

Well, a mile is still about 5278 feet farther than I can communicate now, I guess I will have to invest.

Thanks!

[paulmbowers 236]

Yeah, I read about the PTT problems. Worst case I am OK wiring up a kill switch as someone else did.

WOW, that does seem like poor range. I had hoped for more, although there is no way I am going to use repeaters.

That time we lost the guy on the dry lake bed we ran into some baja racers (with radios) and they were able to help us out communicating with their buddy in a buggy. Granted the buggy has a 25W radio and whip antenna, but they were able to talk 10 miles or so across the lake bed. I am sure they have the best stuff but I had hoped for this kind of money we could do a bit better than a mile.

Well, a mile is still about 5278 feet farther than I can communicate now, I guess I will have to invest.

Thanks!

Watch out for cheap switches. If they get wet, it can cause a partial short, which will key the transmit function of the radio. If you're in a group, and someone's switch or connector is shorted, it means nobody else can talk. It's a real pain, because the person transmitting can't hear anything, and the others can't tell each other what's happening. You just ride along listening to somebody breathing or a huge amount of static.

[DigDug 0]

Yeah, I read about the PTT problems. Worst case I am OK wiring up a kill switch as someone else did.

WOW, that does seem like poor range. I had hoped for more, although there is no way I am going to use repeaters.

That time we lost the guy on the dry lake bed we ran into some baja racers (with radios) and they were able to help us out communicating with their buddy in a buggy. Granted the buggy has a 25W radio and whip antenna, but they were able to talk 10 miles or so across the lake bed. I am sure they have the best stuff but I had hoped for this kind of money we could do a bit better than a mile.

Well, a mile is still about 5278 feet farther than I can communicate now, I guess I will have to invest.

Thanks!

You'll do much better than a mile in the open. Mountain peak to mountain peak or on a dry (or wet for that matter) lake, you'll easily reach out 10 miles. I talk to the repeater on Palomar Mountain, so I know I can reach all over the county with that 5 watts. (although the repeater has a much better antenna to receive my signals). The VX-170 is a VHF radio, and VHF signals are limited to line-of-sight. Put some terrain between you and your buddy and the signals won't get through.

The thing with the VX is that it operates on the ham band and requires a license. It's cheap ($5) and easy (you do have to take a test - but all the questions are available beforehand to study for) to do. Many here are too lazy to go and get one (RawDaddyCay), and the chances of getting fined are slim - but you really ought to. Last weekend up at Big Bear, we got called out by someone listening to our conversation. We got scolded for not ID'ing our transmissions (which someone couldn't do because he isn't licensed). It sure would have been nice had my riding partner been totally legal.

[Crawdaddy 96]

It sure would have been nice had my riding partner been totally legal.

Ouch , I think I just got bitched slapped ......Doug, the study guide has moved from the garage to inside the house......I'm making progress..... I may even open it soon and view the table of contents

[paulmbowers 236]

It sure would have been nice had my riding partner been totally legal.

Ouch , I think I just got bitched slapped ......Doug, the study guide has moved from the garage to inside the house......I'm making progress..... I may even open it soon and view the table of contents

Skip the study guide and go straight to the online sample tests. Take the tests, and identify to areas you might need help, THEN go to the study guide. Much of the material is simply common sense.

[paulmbowers 236]

(although the repeater has a much better antenna to receive my signals).

I think this is key. We really hurt our range when we stuff the radios in our bags and vests and keep it low on our bodies. I'm considering a suction cup mount for the top of my helmet, with a jack-in-the-box antenna ball for the top

It would be GREAT if more folks got their license, even for our usual riding areas.

p

[Strega 0]

Last weekend up at Big Bear, we got called out by someone listening to our conversation. We got scolded for not ID'ing our transmissions (which someone couldn't do because he isn't licensed).

This is what's wrong with people today. People spend too much time worry'n about what other people are doing than taking care of themselves, their communities, and their families.

I bet that guy scolded you for not ID'n then went home and kicked his dog. People like that suck.

I'm not prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

[DigDug 0]

This is what's wrong with people today. People spend too much time worry'n about what other people are doing than taking care of themselves, their communities, and their families.

I bet that guy scolded you for not ID'n then went home and kicked his dog. People like that suck.

I'm not prejudice, I hate everyone equally.

Ham radio is VERY MUCH a self-policing thing, and that has seemed to work VERY WELL for them as far as keeping the bands civil. Listen to a CB radio, then listen to a ham repeater - VERY DIFFERENT experiences...

In many ways, I wish it were easier for us to self-police ourselves on offroad/dualsport bikes too...

Besides, it's SOOOOOO EASY to be legal... What's your excuse???

[Strega 0]

Besides, it's SOOOOOO EASY to be legal... What's your excuse???

The being legal part isn't my issue at all, I think that's fair enough. It's the 'scolding' that I find silly beyond comprehension.

[bikeslut 1]

Besides, it's SOOOOOO EASY to be legal... What's your excuse???

The being legal part isn't my issue at all, I think that's fair enough. It's the 'scolding' that I find silly beyond comprehension.

you forgot to sign off... get off this channel...

[ssaint 0]

So all legality aside, woudla group of riders (all legal of course) actually set up to use the repeater while riding as a group? Or, would you just set up siplex and run with that?

Sounds like it limits your range, but from what I am hearing using the repeater for bike to bike on a ride would be too much hassle. True?

10 miles sounds great. Most of the riding many of us do is the dessert and you can usually get quite far away but maintain line of site.

Thanks guys, for the infor AND the entertainment.

1469RU Clear

[DigDug 0]

So all legality aside, woudla group of riders (all legal of course) actually set up to use the repeater while riding as a group? Or, would you just set up siplex and run with that?

Sounds like it limits your range, but from what I am hearing using the repeater for bike to bike on a ride would be too much hassle. True?

10 miles sounds great. Most of the riding many of us do is the dessert and you can usually get quite far away but maintain line of site.

Thanks guys, for the infor AND the entertainment.

1469RU Clear

I'm sure it's been discussed, but this is a pretty long thread. Basically, we could use a repeater and have crazy range - but that's impractical (especially considering how much we talk while riding and that other users also use those repeaters), so we just use a simplex frequency. If more riders were legal, we could set up a "repeater backup" frequency to go to if we get separated and lose contact via simplex (due to terrain, range issues, etc). That way you could regroup and get back on simplex.

Talking on a repeater is no different than talking simplex. Once your radio is set up, you don't know the difference - no lag or anything. It's just the impracticality of tying up the repeater for general chit-chat...

The other beauty of the repeaters is for emergency use. If someone, ANYONE, is listening and has a phone nearby, you can get out a distress call if needed - even if you don't have cell phone coverage where you are at...

10 miles is great, but don't count on that all the time - my experience is that it's usually between 1 and 5 since there's always terrain around. (1 in the washes, hills, mountains - 5 in the more open areas). You could easily exceed 10 if the conditions were perfect. The first thing you'd do if you lost contact was to try and get to high ground to re-establish contact...

[paulmbowers 236]

It also depends on the repeater. Lots of them see little to no traffic, others have regularly set times for folks to bucket-mouth with their buddies. There are ways of doing priority channel scanning (ways that are beyond my abilities) so one can use the simplex frequencies, but monitor the repeater as well.

Using repeaters would require a different comm style. It would be sad, as I could not sing.

[DigDug 0]

I could not sing.

Hmmm.... :scratch_one-s_head:

That gives me an idea!!!

[Crawdaddy 96]

........It would be sad, as I could not sing........

Is there a downside to that equation? :scratch_one-s_head:

[paulmbowers 236]

You so wound me. I'm dashed. All you Simon Cowell's out there.

[darylhunter 1]

As Doug said, the ham bands are very much self policed. The ham bands are a jealously guarded resource, especially by some of the old timers who had to work extra hard to get the privileges in the first place. They're now retired and don't have anything better to do in some cases than listen to the radio and write letters to the FCC.

As when commenting on any type of observed behaviour that doesn't meet the desired standards, tact is always helpful. However, not everyone is blessed with the same interpersonal communications skills so be prepared to be called out in a not so polite way by a licensed ham if you're using the band illegally. If you know you're in the wrong, be polite, don't get in a mud slinging contest, and go silent if possible till you're out of range.

Believe me, you don't want the FCC to get involved. Were said licensed ham who's monitoring the bands to get a wild hair and rat the group out to the FCC, the FCC could come asking any of the party who were licensed and using their call signs properly, to identify those of the party who weren't using their calls or face some sanctions. Low probability, but it could happen.

Having unlicensed people trying to use the repeater will be like pouring gasoline on a fire - save that for emergencies.

There's nothing wrong with using the repeater to support a ride. I don't think that it's any less appropriate than the normal rag chewing that goes on as people commute to work or run around doing errands during the day. I'd just try to pick a repeater that a) has good coverage in the area of the ride, and :scratch_one-s_head: isn't very busy.

If you do use a repeater, try to keep transmissions short and leave some breaks between transmissions to give other folks the opportunity to jump in if desired. Make it clear that others are welcome to join the conversation. There could be some hams out there who used to ride, or some that never did but always wanted to who may find it interesting. Keep it clean. Sometimes that's hard when you just had a scare or got whacked in the face by a branch or something and a "F@$k!" slips out.

Just keep in mind that when operating simplex out in the country, the number of folks likely to hear the conversation is fairly limited, but when on the repeater it's a much larger area - in fact if the repeater in question supports IRLP, it could be linked world wide to other coverage areas.

[DigDug 0]

Actually, the guy was pretty polite about it. It was along the lines of "Hey guys, don't forget to throw in a station ID once in a while... " I responded with an oops sorry, my call is XXXX, then we went silent. My guess is the guy had been listenening for quite some time since he was in Big Bear and we were coming down off Onyx Peak (top of the world - radio wise. Mickey brought his VX-170 over to Catalina and said he was talking over the Onyx repeater that day. I wish I had known that, it would have been a cool conversation to have). Good thing Mr. Crawford kept his potty mouth clean that afternoon!!! :scratch_one-s_head:

It came across as a "polite reminder" to me...

[Crawdaddy 96]

Good thing Mr. Crawford kept his potty mouth clean that afternoon!!!

Trust me, there was no shortage of profanity spewing out of my mouth on Delamar and Onyx!!! Those two stretches kicked my ^&%......I was &^%&$ pissed in a few *&^% areas on those two ^%&$ climbs.......some %&^$% slippery terrain........*&%$ bike.....not to mention my lack of ^%% conditoning.... ......luckily the PTT wasn't engaged at the time :scratch_one-s_head:

[RogerTOWM 0]

The max power output from the ht is 5 watts, and the vx-170s are doing that.

Just reading my radio’s specification sheet (IC-T7H) and it states that I have selectable 6 watt or .5 watt power settings with my installed battery (other batteries are less). I’ve also seen a radio that could be installed on an adventure size bike that puts out 20W. So it is possible to get better range with more power but I think the terrain and antenna matter more for us. The higher the antenna placement the better.