Baja Designs HID light recommendation

[ShocknAwe 0]

I am dropping off my 02 KTM 400 EXC at Baja Designs tomorrow morning to upgrade the standard dual sport light to a HID light.

I am leaning toward the Tecate HID because it has two lights and maintains the original dual sport look without significant modifications for turn signals. But the round dual HIDs look cool and probably provide more night time light. Do they work with turn signals? Any issues driving with HIDs on the street? Assuming budget is not an issue and that I want working turn signals/horn, any suggestions??

https://www.bajadesigns.com/NET/C-MCYCLE/MOTORCYCLE+PRODUCTS

[SCHWINN 0]

The dual headlight 1 is the 1 I have been looking at. The Diablo is it??? 1 is spot the other is flood. Awsome and not DOT I believe . Your already there, ask them these questions. Blinkers, horn DOT OK. They can make it all work$$$$$ except DOT

[Crawdaddy 96]

......any suggestions??.......

Start early/finish before nightfall......kick back and sip a cold one under the stars with your bike parked/locked

[tntmo 908]

......any suggestions??.......

Start early/finish before nightfall......kick back and sip a cold one under the stars with your bike parked/locked

Sometimes you just don't want to stop at dark, I've done some awesome night rides. A good headlight helps, I don't know if I've done any awesome night rides with the stock headlight on my WR.

[boat440 0]

Has anybody considered an LED front headlight approach or have experience with?

Efficiency, light output and durability seem to match an HID at a lower cost and will not need an upgraded stator(only 20W, compared to the current 35W incandescent).

I am currently running a rear LED from SICASS racing, with no issues.

See Acerbis new offering. But non-DOT.

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/...FA33A154BA89876

[Joliet 0]

LED's are the future. Less power, better temperature (color) more durable. I am looking at an LED for my bike.

Shock, call trailtech direct to ask your questions, they are usually very helpful over the phone.

http://trailtech.net/light_comparison.html

If I were going to get a HID, I would get a Trailtech X2 HID. Most HID's are bright, I would expect to get stopped by a LEO at night for running one.

[ShocknAwe 0]

Thanks for the comments and light comparison. The Trailtech model-specific X2 Halogen that came out August 2009 is hard to beat for $79.95, especially when it plugs right in and requires no changes to the regulator or stator. The Trailtech guy made a great point: HID lights are brighter, but they blow out dust more than halogens.

Trailtech is coming out with a dual-sport halogen next month that is similar to the X2, but DOT-approved. The guy thought LEDs were the future, but money investments in that technology are slow.

[Joliet 0]

The Trailtech guy made a great point: HID lights are brighter, but they blow out dust more than halogen lights.

You still have to see where you are going. Less light = less dust showing up, I don't think it makes a difference if it is Sunlight, HID, LED, Halogen or Incandescent. Have you noticed when you are trail riding in the mountains and there is a ton of dust, then you go into the trees and you hardly notice the dust in the shade. When light is hitting dust between your eyes and where you are looking it is going to reflect light back at you, the more light the more reflection. If it is hard to see, you either need less light or less dust, I would prefer to get in front or drop back further and have less dust (your lungs will appreciate it too). Do the guys in Baja run weaker lights because of the dust? Just a thought.

[paulmbowers 236]

The Trailtech guy made a great point: HID lights are brighter, but they blow out dust more than halogens.

Huh? How does this work?

Absurd.

I have a little experience with lighting- it's my job- and the backscatter has a lot more to do with the nature of the light and it's angle than the light source itself. First, halogen and hid or led in the same quantity from the same angle will backscatter the same amount light- it's simple physics. Now- if you can control the beam with a fresnel lens or with optical tuning of the reflector, you may be able to reduce backscatter. Think about it in the extreme- if you point a focused light source at the ground, or just 2 feet in front of the tire, you'll have little backscatter. But if the light is uncontrolled, all the dust directly in front of you will be lit, and it will be difficult to see ahead for two reasons- first you see the dust, but second with all that light in your eyes, your pupils will close, reducing your night vision.

This is my objection to the current versions of LED lights I've seen- they are unfocused blocks of light that will scatter all over. Same as the helmet lights- when you mount the light source on a similar axis as your eyes, the results are poor in dusty conditions. When it's clear, they work great.

Much of the key to a headlight is what's called the cutoff- that is, how the source is directed with the lens or reflector. The actual QUANTITY of light produced or it's origin is secondary.

[Zenosan 2]

The Trailtech guy made a great point: HID lights are brighter, but they blow out dust more than halogens.

Huh? How does this work?

Absurd.

I have a little experience with lighting- it's my job- and the backscatter has a lot more to do with the nature of the light and it's angle than the light source itself. First, halogen and hid or led in the same quantity from the same angle will backscatter the same amount light- it's simple physics. Now- if you can control the beam with a fresnel lens or with optical tuning of the reflector, you may be able to reduce backscatter. Think about it in the extreme- if you point a focused light source at the ground, or just 2 feet in front of the tire, you'll have little backscatter. But if the light is uncontrolled, all the dust directly in front of you will be lit, and it will be difficult to see ahead for two reasons- first you see the dust, but second with all that light in your eyes, your pupils will close, reducing your night vision.

This is my objection to the current versions of LED lights I've seen- they are unfocused blocks of light that will scatter all over. Same as the helmet lights- when you mount the light source on a similar axis as your eyes, the results are poor in dusty conditions. When it's clear, they work great.

Much of the key to a headlight is what's called the cutoff- that is, how the source is directed with the lens or reflector. The actual QUANTITY of light produced or it's origin is secondary.

Interesting Paul.

I do a lot of night driving in the wilderness of northern AZ and Utah on my commutes between San Diego and Page. I was thinking of my experience with the stock fog lights and high beams on my Toyota Tacoma. I have noticed that many times I can actually see better with them off even on clear nights. Sometimes it seems to be a function of the humidity in the air much less when there is real fog or snow while driving at night. Is this an illusion on my part?

Don

[paulmbowers 236]

It's all about what's in the air where the light is hitting. If it's perfectly clear, you won't have backscatter. Here's an image I shot a few years ago. In order to make the beams show, I had to use a bit of fog on the set. Without anything in the air, you can't see the beams. Foglights are typically placed down low for this reason- trying to keep the light off the axis of your eyes.

[Zenosan 2]

It's all about what's in the air where the light is hitting. If it's perfectly clear, you won't have backscatter. Here's an image I shot a few years ago. In order to make the beams show, I had to use a bit of fog on the set. Without anything in the air, you can't see the beams. Foglights are typically placed down low for this reason- trying to keep the light off the axis of your eyes.

I see three different scatter patterns. Which is which?

[Zenosan 2]

It's all about what's in the air where the light is hitting. If it's perfectly clear, you won't have backscatter. Here's an image I shot a few years ago. In order to make the beams show, I had to use a bit of fog on the set. Without anything in the air, you can't see the beams. Foglights are typically placed down low for this reason- trying to keep the light off the axis of your eyes.

I see three different scatter patterns. Which is which?

I have a 6:30 class to go to. I would like to continue this topic tomorrow. thanks.

Don

[paulmbowers 236]

Not sure I understand...

[jbw 0]

The big issue with LED's (now is a past issue) Is that to produce the equivalent amount of light as one HID bulb you would need multiple(maybe like 8 for LED's from a year ago) LED's. To properly focus the light to a nice narrow beam you would need multiple fairly large reflectors, thus the light becomes large. The newest generation of high power LED's are actually very high power in a single package. This will allow for the use of only a few lenses that can focus the light well... I cannot see HID lights lasting much longer with LED's as competition, the LED's have higher efficiency, more robust, and the ability to dim or flash.

State of the art:

Two or three of these and you are good to go!

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12721

I made these for mountain biking and could have had a tighter beam with the same size lenses. They were selected with more flood and less throw as the speed on a mountain bike are less than on my moto. I also can make the light modulate for on road driving safety. Try to get your HID's to do that.

You can see that each LED has a different lens and none of them are the ones that focus to the tightest pattern possible.

I made these a year ago and are not using the latest LED's. For anybody who has played around with the LED's I used cree Q5's with Ledil optics.

[Zenosan 2]

Not sure I understand...

Not sure I understand either.

Were there three different flashlights or was the difference in appearance of each beam due to the angles of each beam? Was this intentional?

[paulmbowers 236]

Yes. To all.

Three identical flashlights at slightly different angles. There may have been some inconsistency in the smoke as well. In this situation, I could not use lights in front of them, near the camera, and the backscatter would have killed the shot.

There are a number of other lights in the scene as well- behind the "window" which is behind the intruders, an edge light to define their bodies, and a background light towards the ceiling behind them.

[paulmbowers 236]

here's a small video clip I shot on the same day:

http://digitaldf.com/paul-bowers/websense-...s-Streaming.mov

[Zenosan 2]

here's a small video clip I shot on the same day:

http://digitaldf.com/paul-bowers/websense-...s-Streaming.mov

Neat! Was this for a commercial?

[paulmbowers 236]

The video was for an online banner ad and a multimedia presentation. The still work went on 20' tradeshow banners.

[boat440 0]

LED's are the future. Less power, better temperature (color) more durable. I am looking at an LED for my bike.

Shock, call trailtech direct to ask your questions, they are usually very helpful over the phone.

http://trailtech.net/light_comparison.html

If I were going to get a HID, I would get a Trailtech X2 HID. Most HID's are bright, I would expect to get stopped by a LEO at night for running one.

Ken & others, I know alot has been said about lighting. Ken your recommendation on LED was taken. I tried the new Acerbis LED and returned it for the following:

1. It did not fit properly(to small) it did not cover the key switch, horn & stock KTM dispaly panel

2. The quality of light (although it was bright straight on) was poor as it did not flood the area. I suspect the pencil beam was fine, but the flood beam was inadequate and the 20 auxiliary lights were useless. The light seems more useful for street, super motard applications, not off-road.

3. Ugly, Ugly, Ugly.

4. On the positive side it was cheap($129), but for my money I'd rather go with the Baja Designs 60 watt halogen(have on my DRZ)

Overall LED is the future, we just might have to wait for better engineered products.

So I ended up with the KTM X2. (It's made by Trail-Tech for KTM). It has all the OEM connectors, so it's a plug & play and uses the OEM switches. It also has the nearly the same shape as the stock light. It's $270, which is a good price for a 2 lamp HID, but $200 more than a Halogen.

Based on my limited experience, Trail-Tech is going to sell a lot of these for all models.