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I got up this morning and this was the front page news. :lol:

5-29-200974954AM.jpg

As if we don't already have too few and faraway venues for recreation. And it will only hurt the economy, too. :lol:

We just had a Senior Staff meeting on this...and our agency does work closely with State Parks, so we have been getting some "inside info". First, the threatened cuts are just that...threats. The Governator wants to apply pressure to you so that you will support tax increases...otherwise "we taka yo parkks awy" (or however you pronounce that with an Austrian accent).

The reality is that there will be some park closures, but not nearly as many as listed in the papers. So parks, like Anza Borrego are just to "porous" to close. Parks that have a single entrance and exit point are most likely to get a closure sign hung up. Budgets will be cut. With an estimated 2200 positions cut out of the 6500 State Park employees. Maintenance will be reduced, patrols reduced, nature centers and campgrounds may get closed...but most State Park will stay open.

Our agency is actually in talks to take over operations at several State Park facilities located in Ventura and Los Angeles (and we might end up keeping them).

AND...I did bounce it off my boss that if Anza Borrego is slated to close that we "grab that park". He stated we will consider it...and I would be Superintendent. BOY HOWDY...would that be irony of the Universe or what.

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Again, Unfortunately, the end result will be worse. Either they will close areas or the San Diego Sheriff's Office will step in during the absence of the primary L.E. agency (State Rangers). The S.O. has no recreational use training and are hard core Law Enforcement officers. They will issue a lot more citations than Rangers...guaranteed!

I would think that Sheriffs would have other more important things on their hands. It's not that I think they don't do a fine job. In fact, I find that they do a good job because they can discern what is important and what isn't. I seriously doubt that a Sheriff would bother to chase a few errant offroaders around out in the desert unless they were doing something extremely BAD.

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I'd pay cash to ride the trails in Cuyamaca! Get away with green sticker areas, and open up "pay to play" locations! I believe in a balanced budget, but stealing green sticker fees, then closing more dual sport areas plain BLOWS

Actually, this is a very good idea. If there are segments of the population who don't want to pay to keep the parks open...then there are other segments that will. If OHV users will step up and pay "special use fees" then parks should focus on providing services and opportunities to them...rather than the trail hikers that don't pay their parking fees or just park outside the gate to avoid paying "their share".

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Again, Unfortunately, the end result will be worse. Either they will close areas or the San Diego Sheriff's Office will step in during the absence of the primary L.E. agency (State Rangers). The S.O. has no recreational use training and are hard core Law Enforcement officers. They will issue a lot more citations than Rangers...guaranteed!

I would think that Sheriffs would have other more important things on their hands. It's not that I think they don't do a fine job. In fact, I find that they do a good job because they can discern what is important and what isn't. I seriously doubt that a Sheriff would bother to chase a few errant offroaders around out in the desert unless they were doing something extremely BAD.

Anza Borrego already has agreements in place with the SDSO. You can see them patrolling the Ocotillo Wells area almost every weekend (right beside the State Park Rangers). Anza Borrego will just expand this agreement into other areas of the park if their own L.E. officers are not available.

We actually have similar agreements up here. I can enter any State Park in Ventura or LA County and enforce their codes because of our "reciprocal enforcement agreements". They likewise can do patrols in our parks.

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I'd pay cash to ride the trails in Cuyamaca! Get away with green sticker areas, and open up "pay to play" locations! I believe in a balanced budget, but stealing green sticker fees, then closing more dual sport areas plain BLOWS

Actually, this is a very good idea. If there are segments of the population who don't want to pay to keep the parks open...then there are other segments that will. If OHV users will step up and pay "special use fees" then parks should focus on providing services and opportunities to them...rather than the trail hikers that don't pay their parking fees or just park outside the gate to avoid paying "their share".

So when you change your screen name to superintendent Dan how much is it gonna be for me to ride my green sticker bike in AB? :angry:

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this proves how bad it is... All of us want to follow the laws and rules, but we resort to "catch me if you can", civil disobedience and anarchy.

When people that have never BEEN to the desert are making decisions for us that want to enjoy it responsibly... Well that just sucks.

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I'd pay cash to ride the trails in Cuyamaca! Get away with green sticker areas, and open up "pay to play" locations! I believe in a balanced budget, but stealing green sticker fees, then closing more dual sport areas plain BLOWS

Actually, this is a very good idea. If there are segments of the population who don't want to pay to keep the parks open...then there are other segments that will. If OHV users will step up and pay "special use fees" then parks should focus on providing services and opportunities to them...rather than the trail hikers that don't pay their parking fees or just park outside the gate to avoid paying "their share".

So when you change your screen name to superintendent Dan how much is it gonna be for me to ride my green sticker bike in AB? :angry:

Day two after Anza Borrego transfers to my agency:

"Welcome to Anza Borrego Desert Off-Road Area"

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He has to catch you to charge you.

They normally will not chase you...or very far if they do. We are constantly drilled that "pursuits" must be a "life jeopardy" situation. If they chase you and the Ranger runs into a couple of hikers or another vehicle...the State will have to sign over about a 2 million dollar check.

Our policy is we will turn on the lights and "attempt a stop" that being we will come right up on your "6" and try to intimidate you with the big ol' brush guard and siren wailing right on your keester. If you don't stop within a minute or two we will just radio it in and discontinue the pursuit. IF HOWEVER we observe you run other vehicles or people off the road you will be determined to be a "threat" and then the pursuit can continue (helicopters, film at 11:00, the whole thing...).

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Hey Ranger Dan,

Just curious, which agency do you work for? And does the SDSO get paid for patrolling OW out of the OHV fund? And if a "designated road" goes through a State Park does it matter if the park is open or not? You can get a ticket for legally parking on the side of the road in an area where the "Adventure Pass" law is in effect, will you get a ticket for driving down a designated road with no particular destination? If we completely eliminated all Park personnel, contracted law enforcement to the local sheriff, trash collection and toilet servicing to a private company and put up the pay and park machine (just like in town) would everything work out just fine? Is it necessary to have someone to watch over and rescue you in case you get in trouble? Who is watching out for the Park Rangers? Does having a highly trained and qualified staff of Park Rangers protect me from being stupid, getting hit by lightning, or being struck by an asteroid that will extinguish all life on earth?

Inquiring minds want to know!

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Hey Ranger Dan,

Just curious, which agency do you work for? And does the SDSO get paid for patrolling OW out of the OHV fund? And if a "designated road" goes through a State Park does it matter if the park is open or not? You can get a ticket for legally parking on the side of the road in an area where the "Adventure Pass" law is in effect, will you get a ticket for driving down a designated road with no particular destination? If we completely eliminated all Park personnel, contracted law enforcement to the local sheriff, trash collection and toilet servicing to a private company and put up the pay and park machine (just like in town) would everything work out just fine? Is it necessary to have someone to watch over and rescue you in case you get in trouble? Who is watching out for the Park Rangers? Does having a highly trained and qualified staff of Park Rangers protect me from being stupid, getting hit by lightning, or being struck by an asteroid that will extinguish all life on earth?

Inquiring minds want to know!

OK...nothing is simple. Neither is our agency. In short we call it the "Conservation Authority", but it is actually two primary public agencies that are also joined to several others as a "State Joint Powers Authority". As a JPA, the agency exercises the "joint powers" of all member agencies which includes the State of California, Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority, Rancho Simi Parks & Recreation, Conejo Recreation & Parks District, and a number of contract agencies (similar to the Sheriff's office contracting to unincorporated communities...we contract Ranger and fire services to those communities that have none). We currently manage lands throughout Ventura and Los Angeles Counties and are funded by State, County, City, and proposition funding sources.

Our agency has sworn & armed State peace officers and we are also a Fire Agency, our EOS identifier is "MRA". We can deploy 150 wildland fire fighters, 6 Type 1 engines, 3 brush engines, 2 water tenders, and 10 slip on units. In this area, we have far more fire fighting resources than State Parks and have performed structure protection on many of their park units. We have also assisted with prescribed burns as far south as Anza Borrego Desert State Park.

The links below will probably do a better job of explaining the agency:

http://www.mrca.ca.gov/

http://smmc.ca.gov/

http://www.lamountains.com/

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Hey Ranger Dan,

Just curious, which agency do you work for? And does the SDSO get paid for patrolling OW out of the OHV fund? And if a "designated road" goes through a State Park does it matter if the park is open or not? You can get a ticket for legally parking on the side of the road in an area where the "Adventure Pass" law is in effect, will you get a ticket for driving down a designated road with no particular destination? If we completely eliminated all Park personnel, contracted law enforcement to the local sheriff, trash collection and toilet servicing to a private company and put up the pay and park machine (just like in town) would everything work out just fine? Is it necessary to have someone to watch over and rescue you in case you get in trouble? Who is watching out for the Park Rangers? Does having a highly trained and qualified staff of Park Rangers protect me from being stupid, getting hit by lightning, or being struck by an asteroid that will extinguish all life on earth?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Second part answers:

Yes, SDSO and Imperial County Sheriff both get paid out of OHV funds for assisting State Parks manage OHV use within their respective counties.

A designated "park" route (wash road) is managed by the Park. Paved public highways that cross the park are managed by the Caltrans or the County, these are not affected by any type of park closure.

The Adventure Pass is a USFS use permit system and is separate from State green sticker or other local agency fees, although some federal areas do apply for and obtain CA OHV grants for management of their areas.

Privatization of parks is an ongoing issue. Especially for the maintenance and repair functions. There is no real substitute for L.E. officers however. (My agency does use some private security resources...but only to open and close parking lots in remote areas).

You as a citizen have the right to be "stupid". A public agency however does not. There are hundreds of "deep-pocket" lawyers out there just waiting for any incident of negligence, oversight, or mismanagement by a public agency or employee.

I think you can purchase "asteroid insurance"...just like UFO abduction insurance.

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As I suspected,

You work for a quasi-governmental agency that is one more step removed from the normal scope of government operations. As a Libertarian I feel that the only necessary LE agency is the Sheriff (elected), fire and EMS service should be under the counties for urban areas, and the CDF or Feds for the rural areas. If the State government is so unresponsive to local desires that the locals will go to the trouble of setting up a completely duplicative agency, things are really wrong (and probably crooked).

I know that for years the County of San Diego has been wanting/trying to contract everything they can to the State or private agencies to eliminate the necessity of actually running a program, dealing with employees and the potential liability that goes with all of it. For some things it makes sense, for some it doesn't, and for a lot of things it would be better for the taxpayers to just drop the whole program outright.

"Just because it's a non-profit organization, doesn't mean that there isn't someone getting rich!"

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So what are you inferring Blind?

That this topic is more entertaining than a triple feature of Bakersfield Idol, Real Housewives of the Trailer Park, and Jerry Springers Greatest Hits?

Sounds about right to me!

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just being a voyeur!! :lol: funny part, for me, was that i did sit down with some food to check updates.... :blink:

i appreciate a good topic...AND, for me again..., great discourse!!!

hope i didn't offend....was trying to be funny, for funny's sake ;)

Blind B)...enjoying lunch!! free is best!!!

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One of the most important points that I'm trying to get people to think about is this: IF the Parks Department is using OHV funds to pay the Sheriff or the CHP to patrol the OHV areas, WHY do we need Park Rangers? The state government has been raiding the OHV fund (since it began) to pay for other stuff and the article said that OHV areas are self funded. Many State Recreation Areas charge user fees but are still running in the red, maybe it's time to consider only having primitive areas accessed by "non-maintained" public roads. Is it really necessary to have hot showers and paved campsites? I don't think that the surfing at Cardiff has gotten any better since the State paved the parking lot and started charging a fee to use it.

We are already paying a lot of money in taxes, lets force the State to come clean on where it is all going!

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As I suspected,

You work for a quasi-governmental agency that is one more step removed from the normal scope of government operations. As a Libertarian I feel that the only necessary LE agency is the Sheriff (elected), fire and EMS service should be under the counties for urban areas, and the CDF or Feds for the rural areas. If the State government is so unresponsive to local desires that the locals will go to the trouble of setting up a completely duplicative agency, things are really wrong (and probably crooked).

I know that for years the County of San Diego has been wanting/trying to contract everything they can to the State or private agencies to eliminate the necessity of actually running a program, dealing with employees and the potential liability that goes with all of it. For some things it makes sense, for some it doesn't, and for a lot of things it would be better for the taxpayers to just drop the whole program outright.

"Just because it's a non-profit organization, doesn't mean that there isn't someone getting rich!"

" Quasi-governmental agency"...huh, I wonder then why my badge says "State of California" on it. The websites with the "ca.gov" must be confused too. Let alone our CERCOM dispatch which is limited to State law enforcement agencies. Thanks for clarifying this...I was confused.

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One of the most important points that I'm trying to get people to think about is this: IF the Parks Department is using OHV funds to pay the Sheriff or the CHP to patrol the OHV areas, WHY do we need Park Rangers? The state government has been raiding the OHV fund (since it began) to pay for other stuff and the article said that OHV areas are self funded. Many State Recreation Areas charge user fees but are still running in the red, maybe it's time to consider only having primitive areas accessed by "non-maintained" public roads. Is it really necessary to have hot showers and paved campsites? I don't think that the surfing at Cardiff has gotten any better since the State paved the parking lot and started charging a fee to use it.

We are already paying a lot of money in taxes, lets force the State to come clean on where it is all going!

They are using OHV funds to secure more emergency personnel "in addition to" their regular ranks without having to make long term budget impacts such as adding full time employees. This practice actually saves the agency money, first because they are "grant funds" and are in addition to their general fund budget, second, they can choose not to renew the contract if they need to use the funds somewhere else later.

You are not going to see "Kalifornia" moving towards any lower level of recreation management anytime soon.

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Ranger Dan,

There is no intention on my part to disrespect you or the job you are doing. My point (once again) is that the State of California is being over run by redundant (and expensive) "agencies" that are engaging in activities that are of questionable necessity.

There are many federal, and state regulations controlling pollution, so how come the South Coast Air Quality Management District is empowered to stop the sale of charcoal lighter fluid?

What does the California Solid Waste Management Board do to get litter off of the streets?

If you manage parks and fight wildfires, how come you don't work for the California State Parks Department? Or CalFire? Or California Department of Fish and Game? Or California State Police?

Has the California Off Higway Vehicle Commission added any NEW OHV areas in the last 20 years?

As I said before, the bottom line really is redundant duplication of authority at great expense.

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Well said Ken,

You get it, and you are correct (IMHO) about the squeeky wheels and the whiners getting greased. I think a big problem for the OHV/motorcycle "lobby" is that most of us are more interested in just going out and doing our thing, we don't tend to be big "organization" people. Personally, I find the whole concept of "organized" trail rides is about as far as I go in being part of a group activity. The big increase in plated dirt bikes is our response to the continual shrinking of open riding areas. Once we get under the blanket of street legality and public "road" usage the anti OHV forces resort to administrative hassling (I.E. DOT tires, parking off of the trail, denial of group activity permits, smog laws). Maybe the State going bankrupt and re-organizing is the best thing that could happen. I haven't specifically discussed my philosophy of LE authority, but I believe that historically (back to England) the Sheriff is the most legitimate LE agency. The Sheriff is elected and is answerable to the will of the voting public. The County Board of Supervisors are also elected and answerable to the public and have the responsibility to provide the funding necessary for the Sheriff to ensure public order. Everything after that is optional.

I worked for the County from 1980 to 1990 and I got in more trouble for coming up with ways to solve problems and minimize costs than I ever would have for hiding out, ducking work and wasting resources. I saw the same thing when I was teaching school and ridiculous examples of waste (and probably corruption) when I was deployed to OIF in 2007. I don't know how to solve the problem, but I think firing everyone who isn't doing a clearly defined job with obvious public benefit would be a good start.

But that's just me...

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Yes...I agree with all the posts here. Believe it or not, but there are a "few" of us public employees who actually oppose tax increases, big government, and the "socialist agenda" which seems to have overrun Kalifornia.

That's why I intend to retire in Arkansas. Partly because I have friends there...but also I couldn't afford to live here on my retirement income. With 27 years in the PERS system I will get around $2300 a month AND then they will cut my Federal Social Security in half because they consider having an additional source of "government retirement" a "winfall profit adjustment". Thus, I'll get about $370 from Social Security. Total: try retirement in CA on $2670 a month...and no, I could never qualify for a home loan on my income either ( and I wouldn't sign one of the "liar loans").

Consider the above the next time you hear the lie that it's the "overpaid public employees" that are the State's problem...

Dan

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