Himalaya and San Diego Mines

[Bagstr 288]

Gents,

The map northwest of Mesa Grande Reservation looks interesting; Up north of Angel Mtn also. Forest Service map shows a marginal road turning into a trail connecting to Lusardi Rd. which drops down from Hwy 76. Can anyone shed light on how navagatable the two track is up that way? Have the locals locked us out? No gates show on the map.

I'm looking to travel the newly opened Orosco 12S02, Upper Santa Isabel 12S07 and head over to check out the mines. It would be nice to connect with Lusardi 11S03 and then Pine Mtn 11S07.

Thanks for any info.

BAGSTR

[Crawdaddy 96]

Pretty sure it's gated and locked.

But hey, go verify - that's part of the "adventure"

[SCHWINN 0]

RE Angel mtn, the angel family are good friends of ours at the hideout and chris angel works at the bar with me when its real busy. I can obtain permission thru chris for a hall pass if we need and turkey season just opened and guess where all the turkey are,,,,, his property they own 6000 acres up on the mesa grande. On a sadder note his granpa just passed away who also lived on the property.

[Bagstr 288]

Schwinn,

That is interesting, 6000 acres...my! Turkey season may not be the best time to make friends riding bikes up on Angel Mountain if they are hunting. Posibly if a group would like to go up and explore once the hunting is over, I would like to participate if there is a time convenient to the Angels.

Thanks, BAGSTR

[Bagstr 288]

I spoke with a nice lady at the Palomar office of the Cleveland National Forest today. She says Lusardi is closed at Hwy 76. Access only from locked gate at north end of Carney from Pamo. Pine Mtn. 11S07 into Guejito Creek = closed private property.(until they start building houses) She also says Upper Santa Ysabel is closed to vehicles but open. But,,,the Cleveland web site has the Upper SY open! Who knows.

Regarding Oriflamme Mtn., better news. I spoke with a park ranger from Anza Borrego SP. He was quite helpful. Top of Mason Truck closed but...talk at the park is that some want to open access. The land was recently bought/donated to the park and they are in the process of developing a management plan. "Not this season. but" The access east from the Rattlesnake Valley Rd. to Oriflamme Mtn. is open year round. There is a y in the road down a mile or so with the east direction better travel. The road north is tougher and leads to a dead end. The east route loops back the north road but road could be tough. This from the ranger. I have been down across the upper Oriflamme Creek and to the y, were I u-turned.

Mason Truck

[dirt dame 561]

Wow, thanks for all your research.

[sandiegoland 0]

...The access east from the Rattlesnake Valley Rd. to Oriflamme Mtn. is open year round. There is a y in the road down a mile or so with the east direction better travel. The road north is tougher and leads to a dead end. The east route loops back the north road but road could be tough. This from the ranger. I have been down across the upper Oriflamme Creek and to the y, were I u-turned.

I still don't see it on the map without overlapping the PCT, I'd have to see a track. If that section past the Y is open (multiple use) that is great news! You could ride as far as you can, then track the sketchy parts from both ends by foot, maybe then if it does go through you can decide if it might be better to do in one direction over the other. The worst thing is to get dropped into a bowl you have to fight to get out of... no need for Phantom Trail III!!

[Bagstr 288]

Craig,

I am speaking of two different trails. Mason Truck off Hwy 79 north of the lake is closed. That is the road that intersects the PCT at the lower gate accessable from the intersection of Chariot and Mason.

The Oriflamme Canyon/Mtn road shows two access points on maps from S-1, but the more southerly road near the overlook is inaccessable/blocked by boulders and overgrown, but with no gate. The pipe gated road accross from the Rattlesnake road/ Lucky 5 Ranch (not the La Cima Work Camp) runs on the top of the ridge level for a few hundred yards and crosses the PCT very near Hwy S-1. It then drops rapidly into Oriflame Canyon and crosses the top of the creek were it it three feet wide and a few inches deep. The road is sometimes two ruts in the tracks mostly DG soil. So it is easy to drop in the ruts. I made it to the Y intersection. There was road north and southwest. The AB ranger tells me the southwest is the better road.

The Forest Service 1:63,360 7 1/2' Quadrangle maps show the best detail.

Saturday, I will be taking an easy ride exploring the Orosco Ridge/ Upper Santa Ysabel if open and areas north of Mesa Grande to find the gates. Then I will either hit Julian and Oriflamme or Palomar Divide etc. after Indian Flats to Chihuahua Valley.

OVER

...The access east from the Rattlesnake Valley Rd. to Oriflamme Mtn. is open year round. There is a y in the road down a mile or so with the east direction better travel. The road north is tougher and leads to a dead end. The east route loops back the north road but road could be tough. This from the ranger. I have been down across the upper Oriflamme Creek and to the y, were I u-turned.

I still don't see it on the map without overlapping the PCT, I'd have to see a track. If that section past the Y is open (multiple use) that is great news! You could ride as far as you can, then track the sketchy parts from both ends by foot, maybe then if it does go through you can decide if it might be better to do in one direction over the other. The worst thing is to get dropped into a bowl you have to fight to get out of... no need for Phantom Trail III!!

[sandiegoland 0]

I am speaking of two different trails. Mason Truck off Hwy 79 north of the lake is closed. That is the road that intersects the PCT at the lower gate accessable from the intersection of Chariot and Mason.

Check.

The Oriflamme Canyon/Mtn road shows two access points on maps from S-1, but the more southerly road near the overlook is inaccessable/blocked by boulders and overgrown, but with no gate. intersects the PCT at the lower gate accessable from the intersection of Chariot and Mason.

If you are referring to this: N32 56.669 W116 29.596, I was told several years ago it was decommissioned permanently at no small effort after the Cedar Fire. It's not even a fire access road anymore. BTW, purposely blocked by boulders... means it's closed permanently to vehicles. Locked gate just means it's closed to public vehicles. Anyway, that's just what I heard and have observed from the ground. I would fall over backwards if a Ranger even implied that was a road anymore!

The pipe gated road accross from the Rattlesnake road/ Lucky 5 Ranch (not the La Cima Work Camp) runs on the top of the ridge level for a few hundred yards and crosses the PCT very near Hwy S-1.intersects the PCT at the lower gate accessable from the intersection of Chariot and Mason.

Check. From the aerial you can see not only the PCT, but also remnants of an old road that crosses. From the ground the crossover looks blocked off, or at least it seems implied that the crossover is perhaps the PCT, but in fact only the part leading south from that is soley the PCT. Heading north is the PCT bearing more westerly, and a road due north. We came out using his road once, and it is definitely not the PCT. This is the junction I am referring to: N32 57.965 W116 30.509 (Google's Aerial is off here, overlay the map for more precision).

Either way, you can continue on the main dirt road at that point and make and still make your way here N32 58.353 W116 30.121 where I think the track you are referring to is somewhere near (Google's Aerial is off here, overlay the map for more precision).

BTW, last time we were poking around down there we sent Joliet down looking for that particular track and he came back with a no-go look on his face. Then again we might have been trying at the wrong spot.

It then drops rapidly into Oriflame Canyon and crosses the top of the creek were it it three feet wide and a few inches deep. The road is sometimes two ruts in the tracks mostly DG soil. So it is easy to drop in the ruts. I made it to the Y intersection. There was road north and southwest. The AB ranger tells me the southwest is the better road.

The Forest Service 1:63,360 7 1/2' Quadrangle maps show the best detail.

That would be nice. I figured it intersected the PCT at N32 58.610 W116 31.120, but either way, there are some points where the PCT is not exclusive use, so regardless if there is a way through that is good news.

I'll be interested to hear what you find! Knowing more info, it is definitely worth another look. You might PM carguy too. I recall he may have taken a closer look at that route at one point too.

[Bagstr 288]

Craig,

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=N32%2058.353%20W116%2030.121

This is the intersection/area of which I speak. We did not get up that area last W.E., so more fun ahead. The access point off S-1 is oposite Deer Park Rd. on the Google Map.

Dave

[sandiegoland 0]

Craig,

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=N32%2058.353%20W116%2030.121

This is the intersection/area of which I speak. We did not get up that area last W.E., so more fun ahead. The access point off S-1 is oposite Deer Park Rd. on the Google Map.

Dave

Yep, that's about where we turned back when we were just noodling around down there.

Either way, you can continue on the main dirt road at that point and make and still make your way here N32 58.353 W116 30.121 where I think the track you are referring to is somewhere near (Google's Aerial is off here, overlay the map for more precision).

I would consider coming at it from the downhill side where it should intersect with Mason TT near Chariot/Oriflame. I would hate to start downslope in the soft DG and have to slog it back out of there.

I've never looked at it from the Mason side because I've only been down there with groups that were making time to get down Oriflame.