San Diego Dual Sport Trails Rating

[Metal Twister 0]

It seems that when ever a ride is posted, trail condition is always asked about and described. It also seems to be described by different riders in many different ways, and levels of difficulty. It would be easy to name the different trails here in San Diego. Do a poll for say for 3 months on each trails difficulty. After that time assess a rating on that trail. That way there would be a lot of input from everybody, and the true trail rate would surface. It would also give everybody a way to judge a trail based on Trails that they have ridden on. Does this make since to anybody else? If so maybe we could come up with a list of most often used trails and add to it as time goes on? Maybe a page just for the results? Just a thought and open for discussion.

SDAR TRAIL RATING STANDARD Has this already been done?

[2Wheels 0]

It seems that when ever a ride is posted, trail condition is always asked about and described. It also seems to be described by different riders in many different ways, and levels of difficulty. It would be easy to name the different trails here in San Diego. Do a poll for say for 3 months on each trails difficulty. After that time assess a rating on that trail. That way there would be a lot of input from everybody, and the true trail rate would surface. It would also give everybody a way to judge a trail based on Trails that they have ridden on. Does this make since to anybody else? If so maybe we could come up with a list of most often used trails and add to it as time goes on? Maybe a page just for the results? Just a thought and open for discussion.

SDAR TRAIL RATING STANDARD Has this already been done?

There was a discussion about that a while back in this thread: http://www.dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.p...p;hl=difficulty

Rad said that dual sport rides are rated on a four-level scale.

Easy

Challenging

Difficult

Most Difficult

I know that a graded dirt road like Boulder Creek or Proctor Valley must be easy but other than that, I'm not sure where different trails fit into this scale. I guess a creek bed with football-sized rocks isn't easy anymore. Does that make it challenging or difficult?

I'd say any County maintained road like Proctor Valley or Boulder Creek is easy. It's the County's job to make them easy.

I rate Carveacre Road difficult. I haven't been on it for a year, but last time I was on it, I thought it was difficult.

[Ride-Orange 2]

It seems that when ever a ride is posted, trail condition is always asked about and described. It also seems to be described by different riders in many different ways, and levels of difficulty. It would be easy to name the different trails here in San Diego. Do a poll for say for 3 months on each trails difficulty. After that time assess a rating on that trail. That way there would be a lot of input from everybody, and the true trail rate would surface. It would also give everybody a way to judge a trail based on Trails that they have ridden on. Does this make since to anybody else? If so maybe we could come up with a list of most often used trails and add to it as time goes on? Maybe a page just for the results? Just a thought and open for discussion.

SDAR TRAIL RATING STANDARD Has this already been done?

Part of me says "GAWD! you think too much", the other part (you know , the BIG part... the belly part...) says "I love you man!!!" This is a cool idea bro

Let's stop TALKING about rating and START RATING

Perhaps a new SECTION to stick ratings into (pleeeease Mr. Rad or Uncle Cam??) and a thread dedicated to each trail?

What else do we have to do with our time while it's hot out?

[Metal Twister 0]

It seems that when ever a ride is

Rad said that dual sport rides are rated on a four-level scale.

Easy

Challenging

Difficult

Most Difficult

That’s why a poll for each trail would be good. we would have a standard to compare to. as it is now what might be a tuff trail for me might be easy for Randy. But how do I judge that trail compared to 100 people? Some expert, and some novice. Also if I look on the rate sheet, and see that Bolder Creek is an easy ride,and I just rode Boulder, then I know when Proctor Valley road is labeled easy I know what to expect. I remember thinking of Thing Valley road as a non issue, then hearing that others found it challenging surprised me. I think some kind of poll would even things out and give a truer picture of the trail for comparison.

[Metal Twister 0]

Part of me says "GAWD! you think too much", the other part (you know , the BIG part... the belly part...) says "I love you man!!!" This is a cool idea bro

Let's stop TALKING about rating and START RATING

Perhaps a new SECTION to stick ratings into (pleeeease Mr. Rad or Uncle Cam??) and a thread dedicated to each trail?

My Thinking Happens in little tiny spurts. Just so happened I was propped up against the key board during the last spurt! How ya been stranger? You still filp flopping around, in the Big Island fashion?

[carguy 1]

I think the problem is perspective. Some of the trails we rode Saturday were Challenging to me, Difficult for others, Most difficult for the in-experienced on previous rides. so would my rating as "Challenging" be correct or do you need a 4-5 rider input to scale them and average?

[Metal Twister 0]

I think the problem is perspective. Some of the trails we rode Saturday were Challenging to me, Difficult for others, Most difficult for the in-experienced on previous rides. so would my rating as "Challenging" be correct or do you need a 4-5 rider input to scale them and average?

Right, You would hope to have input by 40 maybe 50 riders. Or at least as many as possible. That is why the poll should run for awhile. also we should keep in mind that trail condition can change so maybe a new poll every couple of years would be in order. The extreme highs and lows would filter out. The most difficult, or more difficult trails would be very obvious because everybody would agree that they are the most difficult. The easy trails would also be very obvious because compared to other trails, everybody would have to agree that they are truly easyer. Does that make since?

[carguy 1]

I think the problem is perspective. Some of the trails we rode Saturday were Challenging to me, Difficult for others, Most difficult for the in-experienced on previous rides. so would my rating as "Challenging" be correct or do you need a 4-5 rider input to scale them and average?

Right, You would hope to have input by 40 maybe 50 guys an gals. That is why the poll should run for awhile. also we should keep min mind that trail condition can change so maybe a new poll every couple ao years would be in order. The extreme highs and lows would filter out. unless it was the most or more difficult because everybody would agree on that. The easy trails would also be very obvious because compared to other trails everybody would have to agree on those too. Does that make since?

Seem to be some electricty in the air, Good Idea!

Better rate them before they close them.

[Metal Twister 0]

I think the problem is perspective. Some of the trails we rode Saturday were Challenging to me, Difficult for others, Most difficult for the in-experienced on previous rides. so would my rating as "Challenging" be correct or do you need a 4-5 rider input to scale them and average?

Right, You would hope to have input by 40 maybe 50 guys an gals. That is why the poll should run for awhile. also we should keep min mind that trail condition can change so maybe a new poll every couple ao years would be in order. The extreme highs and lows would filter out. unless it was the most or more difficult because everybody would agree on that. The easy trails would also be very obvious because compared to other trails everybody would have to agree on those too. Does that make since?

Seem to be some electricty in the air, Good Idea!

Better rate them before they close them.

I say we start with your trail! It should be here for awhile?

[DigDug 0]

Right, You would hope to have input by 40 maybe 50 riders. Or at least as many as possible. That is why the poll should run for awhile. also we should keep in mind that trail condition can change so maybe a new poll every couple of years would be in order. The extreme highs and lows would filter out. The most difficult, or more difficult trails would be very obvious because everybody would agree that they are the most difficult. The easy trails would also be very obvious because compared to other trails, everybody would have to agree that they are truly easyer. Does that make since?

I think I'm catching on... Like a big table - riders -vs- trails. Maybe a scale of 1-10 with 1 being easiest 10 being most difficult would be a little more descriptive and give us a better perspective.

So if you're going on a ride (on a new to you trail) with DigDug and he says he rates the new trail as a 5, you can go look at the table, find a familiar trail that DigDug has also rated as a 5, then see how you rated the familiar trail from the table... say a 3 (since you're so much more studly than DigDug). You now have a trail to compare it to.

Is that kind of what you were getting at? I like it... Could be massive project depending on the number of trails and riders - but I'd say it's worth a shot. I'm kind of an Excel geek, so I could compile the data if nobody else wants to.

[carguy 1]

Ok, Lets Keep It Simple Sam, 1-4, 1-Easy thru 4-Most Difficult.

Jacumba area I would rate as 2-Challenging.

Exception would be Mountain Springs Loop North to south as 3-Difficult.

[Metal Twister 0]

Ok, Lets Keep It Simple Sam, 1-4, 1-Easy thru 4-Most Difficult.

Jacumba area I would rate as 2-Challenging.

Exception would be Mountain Springs Loop North to south as 3-Difficult.

Good except now we need to post that trail or trail area with a poll so everybody can give their views of the same area. Maybe post the Mtn. Springs area as a seperate poll? Maybe Uncle Cam can set up the polls? I sure cant. LOL

should look somthing like this;

Trail name, --- Poll 1 thru 4, ----- poll tally= Trail Difficulty rate, ---- Post trail as a, 1 thru 4 rate.

I think we should start with say 5 trails in north county, five in costal , five in central, and five in the south east. See how it works, if it works? And then start adding say 5 or 10 every couple of months or as needed.? Make since? And of corse use Randys scale as the four ratings. I think 1 thru 10 is to fine of measure. at 10 we really start splitting hairs and end up with a lot of grey areas. I think the four choices would show up alot more obvious.

[Joliet 0]

I also found last weeks ride (the steep parts) a 2. But I think if I had been on the DRZ, I think I would have to rate them a 3. There may have to be some way to tell which bike a rider is on when he rates a road.

Say if Randy were to rate last weeks trial you would want to know if he were on the Elefant or KTM 640 LC4.

Or say Papa with his KTM might rate last weeks trail a 3, but I bet if he had done the ride a couple of months ago on his DR 650 he probably would rate it a 4. So his ratings from just a couple of months ago would not jibe with a current rating. Of course now I am probably over-thinking it. But I think the "grading on a curve" is a good idea, but it is either going to take less thinking or way more thinking to make it work.

Ken

[Metal Twister 0]

So if you're going on a ride (on a new to you trail) with DigDug and he says he rates the new trail as a 5, you can go look at the table, find a familiar trail that DigDug has also rated as a 5, then see how you rated the familiar trail from the table... say a 3 (since you're so much more studly than DigDug). You now have a trail to compare it to.

Is that kind of what you were getting at? I like it... Could be massive project depending on the number of trails and riders - but I'd say it's worth a shot. I'm kind of an Excel geek, so I could compile the data if nobody else wants to.

Think we need to keep it real simple!!! I dont know how to set this stuff up? a Im a total computer Idiot. I guess that makes me an Idea Guy, right! LOL . Before this is all over we may take you up on your offer. Also it seems the more poll feedback we get the more accurate the trail rate will be. I know there is going to be trail rates that will baffle us all, one way or another. We might ride a trail and insist that it should have a higher, or lower rating, But the numbers shouldnt be to far off. It should be fun if nothing else.

[Metal Twister 0]

I also found last weeks ride (the steep parts) a 2. But I think if I had been on the DRZ, I think I would have to rate them a 3. There may have to be some way to tell which bike a rider is on when he rates a road.

Say if Randy were to rate last weeks trial you would want to know if he were on the Elefant or KTM 640 LC4.

Or say Papa with his KTM might rate last weeks trail a 3, but I bet if he had done the ride a couple of months ago on his DR 650 he probably would rate it a 4. So his ratings from just a couple of months ago would not jibe with a current rating. Of course now I am probably over-thinking it. But I think the "grading on a curve" is a good idea, but it is either going to take less thinking or way more thinking to make it work.

Ken

I think the key here is to learn where the trail rate falls in terms of your riding. If I know a tail is rated at a 3, and that 3 is rough for me, then that 3 has a meaning. and I will know that a 3 ride for me is going to be a challenge. at the same time if a 3 outing for you was easy for you , next time a 4 might be in order. I think these ratings should be for our benifit, and only work as a guide line for evaluating new rides, and giving us a realistic idea what we're in for. I felt really bad after hearing that the beginner ride that we went on some time ago should of been rated higher than a beginners ride. Even though the only beginner crashed out shortly after hitting the dirt. After that its not a beginner ride any more, right? Maybe thats what they meant? Maybe the bigger bikes should add a rate to compensate for their size. Or if your a Pro rider maybe not? And if you ride a bulky bike just relize that the next level might better suit you. Of corse quads are going to be all over the board, but they to could use the same rate and have an idea what they are in for. Here again, this is where a trail rating would help.

[dirt dame 561]

The problem I have is that on good days a trail full of rocks and switchbacks may be sorta challenging, and I might ride it feet up and no hesitation. Off-days create a situation where if I'm worn out or the weather is TOO HOT (or a combo of both), or I think about how I am going to aproach the terrain too much I might stall alot or even crash alot on the same trail. I know I should have made the trail easy, but I didn't. Maybe I just need a shrink or maybe I just need to ride more, till I am not so conscious of every little move I make. Maybe I'm just old folks. And don't get me started on how easy everything is on my minibike! Shut up and ride, yes?

[Metal Twister 0]

The problem I have is that on good days a trail full of rocks and switchbacks may be sorta challenging, and I might ride it feet up and no hesitation. Off-days create a situation where if I'm worn out or the weather is TOO HOT (or a combo of both), or I think about how I am going to aproach the terrain too much I might stall alot or even crash alot on the same trail. I know I should have made the trail easy, but I didn't. Maybe I just need a shrink or maybe I just need to ride more, till I am not so conscious of every little move I make. Maybe I'm just old folks. And don't get me started on how easy everything is on my minibike! Shut up and ride, yes?

not at all! I thought a trail rating up the trail and another for down the trail might be good. OR early out riding, fresh and anxious, one rate. and late in, tired and haggard for the other rate.? But then i thought better, Id never admit im tired and haggard, even if it is on the way out.LOL

Ride at the trail level your comfortable with, who cares what the number is? The trail should be rated, in a fresh ride ready frame of mind. Presume everybody is going to be on their "A" game riding through there.

[2Wheels 0]

Some more trail ratings:

Otay Mtn TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Minnewawa TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Marron Valley Rd - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Road on the West side of Tecate Peak - Challenging on a short stretch, but maybe that's because I have to keep the throttle pinned on my little bike to make that section. Easy on a Husky.

Kuchamaa TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Border Rd - Easy - - Graded Dirt Road

North loop Mtn Springs Stage Coach Rd - Challenging with some loose rocks and a few steps

La Posta Rd North of I-8 - easy

Thing Valley Rd - easy or challenging? can't decide

Well - that's all I can think of.

[Metal Twister 0]

Some more trail ratings:

Otay Mtn TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Minnewawa TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Marron Valley Rd - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Road on the West side of Tecate Peak - Challenging on a short stretch, but maybe that's because I have to keep the throttle pinned on my little bike to make that section. Easy on a Husky.

Kuchamaa TT - Easy - Graded Dirt Road

Border Rd - Easy - - Graded Dirt Road

North loop Mtn Springs Stage Coach Rd - Challenging with some loose rocks and a few steps

La Posta Rd North of I-8 - easy

Thing Valley Rd - easy or challenging? can't decide

Well - that's all I can think of.

Is it a lot of work to set up a poll for seperate trails like two wheels posted? does it suck up alot of memory?

How many trails should we start with? should we start with trails that are heavly traveled so we can get a lot of feedback on the poles?

[Joliet 0]

If I were going to rate last weeks trail for others, not knowing their skill lever or what bike they would be riding I would rate it a 3. Anything harder would be like some of the black diamond trails I have been on.

[dirt dame 561]

Kernan trail west of Corral Canyon road: somewhat challenging

Kernan trail east of Coral Canyon road: not too challenging

East side of Bronco peak: somewhat challenging

West side Bronco peak going to campground: ouch!

ThingValley road: easy

Rodriguez Canyon: some challenging parts

Hixon trail: lower part challenging

Allesandro trail: challenging

And let's not forget that some trails are easier in one direction than the other. There are trails that are easier to go down than up, but not always Oops, somebody already mentioned that

[Metal Twister 0]

If I were going to rate last weeks trail for others, not knowing their skill lever or what bike they would be riding I would rate it a 3. Anything harder would be like some of the black diamond trails I have been on.

I might be all wrong here, but it seems we should rate the trail according to our skill level and not what we think others would rate it. That way a 3 for you is a 3.... and a 4 is a true 4 for you. that way the rate will be accurate and not a guess based on others abilitys? Another words, you 3 to you could be a 4 for me, and i would know that a posted 3 is going to kick my arss. But at least i know what the posting is. Did I just make this thing really confusing???? i

[2Wheels 0]

On some rides, I've described the roads as passable by a family sedan. I'd say anything you can drive a passenger sedan over has to be easy. Whether or not a passenger sedan can make it over a road has more to do with the car itself rather than the driver's skill.

How about if you could make it in a 2wd pickup truck? Should it still be easy? Where's the dividing line? Any ideas?

How about the dividing line between challenging and difficult?

Here's my idea for the dividing line between difficult and most difficult - it's just an idea. If the bike will make it over the obstacles with nothing but momentum and without any special input from the rider, it's just difficult. If the rider has to do some kind of trials riding moves like wheelie over rocks and jump ditches, then it's most difficult. (I can't do these moves by the way.)

[dirt dame 561]

In river kayaking, they rate the degree of difficulty, by physical characteristics of the river itself. As the flow of water get swifter, the rate of drop steeper and the more rocks, the higher the rating. A slow flat surface would rate a one and a flash flood through a boulder field would rate a five(nearly impossible). Maybe we could have a rating based simularly on the physical characteristics of a trail.

[Metal Twister 0]

On some rides, I've described the roads as passable by a family sedan. I'd say anything you can drive a passenger sedan over has to be easy. Whether or not a passenger sedan can make it over a road has more to do with the car itself rather than the driver's skill.

How about if you could make it in a 2wd pickup truck? Should it still be easy? Where's the dividing line? Any ideas?

This is where experience skill level comes in. The easy i think should be any two wheel drive road, or should we even rate a dirt road? maybe we should only rate single track, or four wheel drive roads ( Jeep trails)?

Trail width, rocks, switch backs, schrubs, silt, all have a part in the trail rating. Maybe the lack of those things is the key to rating? I really dont know? Im sure Randy or some of the world travelers here could shed some light on keys to rating. I dont have any clues other than whats easy, challenging, passable, or an SOB trail, but everybody is different. I say keep it consistant for you and the poll should answer that for us?

Also was wondering if we should move any discussion of trails into the members only forum. After all this should be one of the percs for belonging to this cool forum, all the inside scoop on our trails, right?