Jump to content
paulmbowers

Interesting SPOT thread

Recommended Posts

over on ADV there's a thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641478 on one rider's experience with an injury and SPOT/SAR response durning the LA B2V.

I don't know who to blame (if anyone) but the science and art of emergency response is debated furiously and I think has implications for our Desert Dash.

The gap between the rider's experience (and possible mistakes) and the rescuers approach and execution of a rescue is remarkable.

I encourage you to read.

As a result of the discussion, I've refreshed my wife's memory regarding the SPOT service, how it works, what it will and will not do and her requirement to be vigilant and persistant with SPOT and local LEO/Rescue should a 911 call go out from my spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That thread is a TRAVESTY. It's a bunch of finger pointing with no factual backbone. Couple of those guys need to be kicked in the jimmy for being such idiots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been following that thread as well and it is a very enlightening read. It is pretty remarkable the series of small errors that turned into a life threatening event. I'm most disappointed in the actions of the BLM guy, but he also isn't part of the thread so we don't hear his side of the story.

Either way, I've asked for a SPOT 2 for Xmas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, there are (as ADV is want to do) be overheated.

But the comments from Marc regarding sweep rider and rescue procedures is important reading.

I wouldn't wnat people to NOT read the thread because of a few jimmy-kicked idiots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another cautionary tale about wonderful new technology only being as good as the humans that are supposed to be responding to it. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Rider's buddy's left him alone
  • Rider hit 911 and moved
  • Rider left the course
  • BLM Officer that came upon the rider had no comms

Somehow people think D37 is to blame and the rider is mad that no one from D37 visited him in the hospital? His wife also called and asked that his 'goodie' bag be left at the hotel front desk?? How worried are ya about your health/safety when you're concerned about your goodie bag??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another cautionary tale about wonderful new technology only being as good as the humans that are supposed to be responding to it. <_<

Absolutely.

But this failure is not a reason to abandon technology resources that are available. And my point is exactly what Roger is saying- the technology worked, the rider didn't and the BLM guy is a waste of resources.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That thread is a TRAVESTY. It's a bunch of finger pointing with no factual backbone. Couple of those guys need to be kicked in the jimmy for being such idiots.

I agree.

I've kept a close eye on the thread as well.

To add to the topic;

I've been in constant communication with SPOT and GEOS Alliance over the years asking about specific situations (911 button pushes) in remote places, specifically Baja Mexico. This stemming from my friend and race partner Steve Martz's shooting. You can read about my conversations with the owner of GEOS Alliance here; http://www.thumperta...t=geos+alliance

But that rider, and the events that took place that day... were a number of reasons to NOT leave your wingman.

It's a simple rule of thumb, but one of the best to keep every rider as safe as possible. The long destination rides we put on, I never allow the group to separate, and account for the riders every 10miles or so with a re-group. Takes us awhile to get to where we're going, but we ALWAYS show up with everyone. Why would you allow your buddies to ride off, or why would your buddies ever ride ahead?? What is so important, that they have to leave??

It's another reason that my fiance' and my father, are very aware that if I push my 911 button on my SPOT, that I'm in dire need of assistance. And that they best not let the search stop, until they've seen me, or heard my voice... no matter the conversation on the other end of the phone. They know this, because I push "okay" or will let them know throughout the day that all is well. Or at minimum, I'm within (two-way) radio contact of my riding partners and they too know what to do or what is going on.

I won't judge the guy who broke down/crashed, or the people's rescue efforts (or lack of).... but, I will hold his buddies accountable even if they were told to "ride on". There's no excuses, no reasoning... nothing that could tell me it's okay to ride on, and leave your buddy. In our group rides; I even wait for the last guy to start his bike, and will often get a thumbs up from everyone so I KNOW, we're good to go before heading back out on the trail. Why can't just a few guys do the same for each other?!

Pretty simple rules to live and ride by.

... I'd just never think that simple of a rule, could save someone's life! Chalk it up to yet another reason to never leave your wingman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does sound like spot did it's job....

(and reminds me I need to give my kids a list of names and numbers for the NON emergency rescue that may someday need to occur)

BTW: anyone is welcome to put me on their SPOT list....have truck and trailer if needed and always happy to help out for a bike retrieval.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you get tired of reading posts (after the first couple of pages) skip to post # 83 to get some good info, it will save you some time. The most important lessons I learned from this are;

1) Always, always ride with a responsible riding buddy or three.

2) Don't push the 911 button unless you are willing to sit and wait for help.

3) Stay on the route you are expected to be on.

4) Teach your emergency contacts how to convert to the different types of GPS coordinate formats to assist poorly trained SAR's.

5) Leave contact names and numbers (riding buddies, ride promoters, local fire dept., ect.) with your emergency contact person.

They made a big deal out of the guy asking for his bling, but when you are in shock your mind doesn't always quite work normally. I will totally dismiss that. When I first read that the guy wanted a ride from the BLM guy, I didn't know the BLM guy was on a bike, I thought he was in a truck. I would probably not give a ride to someone with injuries on my bike unless I thought that was the best was to save him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I should create a web page that allows you to put in the coordinates in any form, and will automatically spit it out in every form available. Make that code freely available to anyone who wants it, to put on their own website, etc. Law Enforcement, EMS, SAR, etc etc.

I'll see what I can do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good riding buddies are a must. Seems that it would help in events like this to have more tracking of the participants. If there are check points you should be REQUIRED to check in. Sweep team comes through to the check point, they would know that in that section someone has gone missing. More work but safety in an organized event should be first. Not saying D-37 did anything wrong, just posting solutions other than insults. Do not know if they had such check points, but if they did it seems they were long distances in between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with modern technology the survival rules haven't changed. When in a group stay a group, etc..

But I ride solo a lot. When I am on my own I don't rush, take risks or push my limits. I only had the wind knocked out of me once when alone in the desert. That was enough to make me cautious. I got the impression this guy may have been pushing himself to make up for lost time while riding alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If there are check points you should be REQUIRED to check in.

This is exactly what they do. There are checkpoints, and you are required to check in/out.

But this method would only work very late in the day if you didn't show up, this wouldn't get any type of immediate response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I should create a web page that allows you to put in the coordinates in any form, and will automatically spit it out in every form available. Make that code freely available to anyone who wants it, to put on their own website, etc. Law Enforcement, EMS, SAR, etc etc.

I'll see what I can do.

That would be great, may save a life someday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Degrees to Decimal:

Decimal Degrees = Degree + ((Minute + ( Second/60)) /60)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So- what about the Dash? Should checkpoints be added? Logging of riders/spots etc?

Should the game be stepped up with more sweep coordination?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone is pounding on this guy’s “buddies” for bailing on him but from what I’ve read on D37/ADV this guy was essentially riding on his own/at his own risk and just sort of tagged onto another group…...I don’t know the details but it *may* not be appropriate to pound on these other guys for "abandoning their friend"……they may not have even known this guy……..he may have been an 11th hour tag along…….they may not have even known that "he" considered himself to be part of their group???…….I wasn’t there/I don’t know the details……..that said, at a minimum they’d be obligated to pass on the info to the next check point that they encountered some guy working on his bike at “X GPS coordinates” or X miles back on the trail from the checkpoint so that info could be relayed to Sweep…….if they said nothing at the checkpoint that’s a problem……

My overall impression is that the SPOT unit did its job, D37 did all they could, the BLM guy is a mystery…… it truly was a perfect storm of unfortunate events/decisions………I think we all have lessons learned……..I know I need to do a better job at coordinating with my SPOT team and I should update my SPOT info before every ride (something I haven’t done in the past and it only takes a minute……you can’t change the message/contact info once you’re out in BFE)…….

I rode ~800 miles solo that week which probably wasn’t overly intelligent on my part but I took a lot of comfort knowing my position was being tracked on both my personal tracking page and on DSM’s Spotwalla Page…….I was in touch with multiple folks throughout the day every day……...I carry a strong whistle on the front of my OGIO vest, a backup GPS in case the primary fails, cell, radio, tools, etc……….nonetheless, this story/experience has me pondering when/if I’ll do such a big ride solo again out in BFE…..it’s ALWAYS best to ride with at least one or two others…..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Degrees to Decimal:

Decimal Degrees = Degree + ((Minute + ( Second/60)) /60)

Aaaaaaaagh! Math! Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

wacko.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SPOT reports Lat 33.158417 Long -116.155917

Which is Decimal Degrees

The Rescue Team needs GPS coordinates Deg, Minutes, Thousandths/minute

Thanks Roger for the GPS to Decimal

eg. N33 09.505

33 + (09 + .505) /60

33.158417 Decimal Degrees

Equal to first half of Blowsand Coordinate N33 09.505 W -116 09.355

Now to convert the other direction

N 33 .158417 DD = 33 + (.158417 x60) GPS N33 09.505

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the reverse conversion, we want to convert dd.ff to dd mm ss. Here ff = the fractional part of a decimal degree.

mm = 60*ff

ss = 60*(fractional part of mm)

Use only the whole number part of mm in the final result.

30.2561 degrees = 30 degrees

.2561*60 = 15.366 minutes

.366 minutes = 22 seconds, so the final result is 30 degrees 15 minutes 22 seconds

- - - - - - -

Thanks to Josh (CraftyCoder) my link now has a working map.

http://www.DualSportMoto.com/latlngconv/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information