How to Fly n Ride

[Zubb 1061]

A question came up last night about how the heck do you jump on a plane, fly a couple thousand miles away and hand a complete stranger a huge wad of cash in exchange for a bike you've never sat on.  I mean, what could go wrong ?  So I thought I'd share what works for me.

Every bike I've bought in my adult life has been some form of fly n ride.  Except for one.  I bought one from @danrider cause he knows a sucker when he see's one.  I bought a San Francisco bike when I lived in Spokane, then when I lived here a Ducati in Boise, an ST1100 in Denver, an 1150 GS in New Mexico, and the recent 1200 GS Adv in Atlanta.  Every single one was a good experience and came with the adventure of riding home built into the deal.

The obstacles are as follows:

Value - how do you know?

Transparency - what is he hiding from me that I can't see through a phone conversation

Payment - is the check gonna bounce? Is the bike going to blow up after 100 miles? Is the cashiers check fraudulent? Cash isn't always easy.  How do we do this so both parties can calm down and trust each other a little ?

Recourse - is there any? 

Here's what works for me. . .

1. www.searchtempest.com  - this will do a nationwide search for anything on craigslist and eBay.  Put in a search for KTM950 and up pops every one for sale in the country (on craigslist).  You will see the prices being asked and gives you a good starting point of what you can expect to both sell your bike . . . and what you'll spend to buy the next one.  I love this tool.  It gives you and the buyer or seller a somewhat tangible tool to discuss the selling price over.  Otherwise you're both just hemming and hawing about what you each think might possibly be a fair price.  And you know how that goes.
2. The first phone call - Let them know what you're looking for and that you plan to buy right now if you find the right bike.  This call is about gathering intel on the bike, but more importantly getting a feel for the seller.  Who is he?  What's he do?  What kind of riding does he like to do.  You're listening for verbal body language.  It's not too hard to tell when someone is trying to pawn a lemon off on you.  Usually.  You gotta buy the person before you buy the bike.  Now hang up and keep searching for another bike or two.  Let the conversation percolate for 24 hours and listen to your gut.  Your gut is often right about people.
3. Now FaceTime him.  Have him walk around the bike with the phone and you can talk about the nooks and cranny's and see for yourself.  "hey show me the fork seals, it looks like there's some dirty greasy buildup from an oil leak.  Can you tell me about that?"  "Hey can you turn the key on and show me that all the dash lights work? Oh look, the motors cold, why don''t you hit the start button for me while we're at it", stuff like that.  Slow down and make it a 20 minute or more video call.  You're not only looking over the bike, you're getting to know the seller and how he answers your questions.  Go with your gut. You'll know what to do.  You'll be learning about how transparent he is.
4. Payment - this ones a problem.  Will you take a check? - no! are you kidding me!, How about a cashiers check?- same difference, there's a ton of fraud with those.  Cash?- well you can't fly with over $10,000 cash.  TSA will take if from you and you'll never see it again because you are a drug dealer of course.  I'm not kidding.  You'll never see it again.

Here's what worked for me on the last one.  I sent him (through Venmo) a $500 deposit on the bike.  If he flaked on me then, I'm out 5 bills and sure I'll be pissed but my life won't change over it.  Someone has to make the first move in good faith.  $100 is not enough for the seller to feel like you are committed to the sale.

He wouldn't take a cashiers check, didn't trust them.  I don't blame him.  So I said 1) google me, you'll easily see who I am. 2) facebook me, we can both instantly see what each other has been saying about life in general for the last few years. (building more transparency and trust between both of us).

I went to my bank and FaceTimed him again.  And over live video phone introduced him to my banker. He got to meet my banker and see his business card up close.  The plan was I'd bring a cashiers check with me.  When he picked me up at the airport, we would both call Carlton, my banker and Carlton would let him know the check was legit and was properly funded from my bank account.

Then and only when I'd properly looked over the bike with my own eyes, seen and inspected the title, did I hand over the cashiers check and ride away with title in hand.

Best case scenario - I got a smoking good deal on my dream bike with a 2800 mile adventure built into the deal.

Worst case scenario - I blew about a grand and 2 days of my life getting yanked around by a con man.  But at least I learned that I am a complete loser at reading people and should not be doing this.

It takes a lot of trust.  But daddy always said "Trust . . .. but verify".  Finding the bike you want isn't so hard.  That's the easy part. Finding a seller who's honest about the deal is the important part of the equation.  Fortunately, most people are just like you and me.  They don't want to rip anyone off, or be ripped off.  Literally once you find the right bike - FORGET ABOUT IT and spend your time and energy on the seller.  He's probably someone just like you, wanting to sell off a bike so he can buy something different.  Just like you.

Pro-Tip:  Fly n Rides aren't for the guy looking to haggle out a killer deal on something.  Low balling someone isn't very smart, because they are going to reciprocate.  Maybe not disclose some things about the bike since you are being a dick about the price.  The gloves are off when you try to buy something for way below a fair price.  That's one reason why I like SearchTempest.  It tells me what market value is on something.

My new ride was priced $2-$3k below market.  Why? because he lives in an inconvenient place to get to 100 miles north of Atlanta.  It had been for sale for a few months.  He wanted to be done with it as he has just bought a boat and boats require constant feeding of $100 bills just to keep them afloat.  All the reasons added up and made sense.  His price was more than fair and the only counter offer I made was to ask him to come off a few hundred bucks to compensate partially for the flight or shipping.  That's a fair request.  Not a low-ball.

There's always risk.  And maybe that's a little bit why I like the process.  That's probably why I ride motorcycle too.  A little risk makes us feel alive.

 

[Crawdaddy 96]

Yep, my flight to Colorado to pick up the 620 was a leap (flight) of faith......the seller and I had a few chats, he readied the bike in advance of my arrival with general maintenance & new shoes, and it all worked out splendidly.....

https://dualsport-sd.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3007-crawdaddys-denver-to-san-diego-adventure/&tab=comments#comment-26264

 

[Oracle 195]

I've done this a few times, too. I've bought several RV's, bikes, and cars/trucks this way....from as far away as Washington, Texas, Colorado. I agree with everything you've said/do. The only thing I do differently is verify there is a Chase bank near the location. Then after inspecting the vehicle/bike, titel, etc., we'll go to Chase together, where I'll have the banker cut a cashier check with the seller present. That way he knows the check is good. And I will always layout the way things are going to unfold prior to getting there. I am currently negotiating on a bike in Colorado.  There's about an 80% I'll be doing a fly and ride in the next couple weeks.

Out of my out of state transactions, I can't think of one that I didn't end up selling the vehicle/bike for more money than I bought if for, after using it for a couple years. 

[paulmbowers 236]

Yup.

Bought my 990 from a Seattle dealer this way, and my truck in Illinois.

The truck is a 4WD longbed- not a popular configuration in Southern California. But using SearchTempest and Cars.com I located it at a dealer, used, less than 12k miles,  for thousands less than I'd pay here in the configuration I wanted. We talked, we emailed and agreed on a price.

Our son and I flew there (took him out of school for a day or two- education, ya know), we were met at the St Louis airport, and driven the 100+ miles to the dealership where we met the salesman. And then he told me about the problem.

The lot boy had backed into a post in the parking lot and damaged the bumper.

Remember, this is a used truck, right? I looked (at night) and could not find the scratch he'd supposedly put on the bumper end, but the salesman provided me a company check in the amount of a new bumper end- about $250. Just like that.

I'm still not sure where the scratch is.

[Zubb 1061]

Glad I posted this thread.  It's good to hear other peoples experiences about it.

I knew I wouldn't find a Union Bank of CA in his home town in Georgia.  Suppose I could have transferred money and used Wells though.  As long as the transfer to Wells had enough time to CLEAR the deposit which often takes a few days.  That would make the seller more comfortable though.  Good idea.

[erik_26 31]

Great write up, thank you!

 

I don't have any experience buying anything out of state. I imagine a car/truck would need to pass smog and such before being registered in California.....

 

In the SDAR collective experience, are there any gotcha or issues getting an out of state bike on the up and up in California for us to be aware of?

[tntmo 887]

Never purchased a bike that way but a guy bought one from me.  He didn’t ask many questions, although I tried to offer as much information as I could.  He didn’t seem all that interested....sort of worried me but it turned out fine.  

[paulmbowers 236]

18 minutes ago, erik_26 said:

 

In the SDAR collective experience, are there any gotcha or issues getting an out of state bike on the up and up in California for us to be aware of?

Yes.

 

1. Be sure it's a California emissions approved bike. There are various ways to be sure- the xth digit of the VIN, a CARB sticker, etc- do your homework IN ADVANCE and be sure. With my 990, I had a local dealer advising me on the purchase- he was able to run the VIN and tell me about the history of the bike- more than the dealership was disclosing. But the bike was such a good deal, he advised me to go buy it from them- earned him a nice fifth of good scotch.

2. Sales tax. You're obligated to disclose the "actual" purchase price based on the price paid for the bike. If the sales tax rate in the state of purchase is .01%, you'll pay the rest when registering in CA should that be the state of your choice in which to register it.

3. Drive away license- in some states, they require a license to drive out of the state and, in theory, every state through which you'll be driving before arriving home. I've never done it, but that's the law as I understand it.

4. AAA was not able to handle the out-of-state title transfer- they all said I must go to the DMV. Yes, I appealed to their sense of all that is good and just in the world. But no, they refused.

5. Watch the numbers. On the 990, they checked the engine number against the VIN. I'm not sure what they'd have done if it didn't match, but they did check.

[Zubb 1061]

3 minutes ago, paulmbowers said:

Yes.

 

1. Be sure it's a California emissions approved bike. There are various ways to be sure- the xth digit of the VIN, a CARB sticker, etc- do your homework IN ADVANCE and be sure. With my 990, I had a local dealer advising me on the purchase- he was able to run the VIN and tell me about the history of the bike- more than the dealership was disclosing. But the bike was such a good deal, he advised me to go buy it from them- earned him a nice fifth of good scotch.

2. Sales tax. You're obligated to disclose the "actual" purchase price based on the price paid for the bike. If the sales tax rate in the state of purchase is .01%, you'll pay the rest when registering in CA should that be the state of your choice in which to register it.

3. Drive away license- in some states, they require a license to drive out of the state and, in theory, every state through which you'll be driving before arriving home. I've never done it, but that's the law as I understand it.

4. AAA was not able to handle the out-of-state title transfer- they all said I must go to the DMV. Yes, I appealed to their sense of all that is good and just in the world. But no, they refused.

5. Watch the numbers. On the 990, they checked the engine number against the VIN. I'm not sure what they'd have done if it didn't match, but they did check.

Great points to note.

On my Idaho Ducati and Denver Honda purchase I spent a ton of time at DMV preparing and paying to take paper temp plates to the bikes for the ride home.  In hind sight it was a huge waste of time and I'll never do that circus again.

This time, I insured the bike for day of purchase forward.  Flew out and rode it home.  I have a signed title in hand with bill of sale and will deal with DMV in the next few days.  I'll let you know if I just made a huge mistake.  8-)

Yes, they will visually inspect the bike, and verify numbers.  It's a 2014 with low mileage and I just had a full top to bottom dealer service including plugs, valves, every fluid in the bike, to establish a service baseline for my records.  Not worried about smog.

[ADV Bum 205]

I had a different experience than Paul. I bought a 990 from AZ.  I did the transfer at AAA. They were sticklers for seeing and matching the numbers on the bike. I had to remove a bracket so they could see one of the numbers.  Where I had an issue was one of the stickers for smog (or something ) was missing and they were not going to let me transfer. Then I realized I had over 6500 ( I think that is the number needed)  so they did not need the sticker, and they completed the transfer.

[tntmo 887]

7500 miles is the magic number.  Do not try to register an out of state bike without that minimum number, the VIN will be flagged and can never be registered in California.

[TexasDualler 32]

Transferred my Honda from South Carolina (bought it while stationed there) to CA a few years ago. I don’t recall doing any kind of SMOG. Just a few hours at the DMV for some paper work, weight reduction of my wallet, and they checked the VIN and engine serial number on the bike. Other than all the sitting around and waiting at the DMV, it was a pretty easy process. Bike did have several thousand miles on it at that point so I guess I know why they didn’t require SMOG now. 

[paulmbowers 236]

4 hours ago, tntmo said:

7500 miles is the magic number.  Do not try to register an out of state bike without that minimum number, the VIN will be flagged and can never be registered in California.

My 990 had 1500 miles on it, my Hyundai had maybe 3000.

[tntmo 887]

12 hours ago, paulmbowers said:

My 990 had 1500 miles on it, my Hyundai had maybe 3000.

Yes, I guess my post should have said for motorcycles that are not CA EPA compliant, ie 49 state bikes.  I think all street legal KTMs are 50 state bikes from what I have heard.  Many car manufacturers also don’t make different models.

[paulmbowers 236]

13 minutes ago, tntmo said:

Yes, I guess my post should have said for motorcycles that are not CA EPA compliant, ie 49 state bikes.  I think all street legal KTMs are 50 state bikes from what I have heard.  Many car manufacturers also don’t make different models.

I was surprised to learn that in model year 2015, not all the Tundras I was considering were CARB approved. That’s likely changed now. 

[Oracle 195]

Yes, almost all newer cars and motorcycles (factory street legal) are 50 state legal now. But it's still something you have to confirm...either that or make sure it has over 7500 miles.

As far as paying tax in another state, that only applies when purchasing from a dealer. So in Kelly's case, since he purchased from a private party (assumption), he'll pay California tax based on the "purchase price" he discloses to the DMV....

Motorcycles don't need to be smogged.

I've never dealt with the temp tag on purchases I've made from private party. The purchase I've made from out of state dealers have provided a temp tag. 

Last thing I'll add is that there are some great deals out there...especially on RV's. So if you are looking, consider an out of state purchase. It is a little more work but can be worth it if you do your home work. Last year I purchased a new RV from Texas for $10,000 less than I could buy it here in California. 

[Covered in Dust 162]

I’m looking for a pontoon boat right now, prices in Texas are about 40% lower than Ca or Az. Just not sure I want to drive to Texas to pick one up. I’ll pay zero sales tax registering it in AZ and keeping it at our house there.

 

CiD

[Oracle 195]

1 minute ago, Covered in Dust said:

I’m looking for a pontoon boat right now, prices in Texas are about 40% lower than Ca or Az. Just not sure I want to drive to Texas 

‘to pick one up.

 

CiD

I've bought a couple RV's out of Texas. The supply and demand balance there on big ticket items seems to be out of balance toward too much supply. Of course with an RV, you fly in (cheap flights it Fort Worth) and drive home. Having to drive both ways to pick up a boat adds a little more inconvenience of course. All comes down to how much you are saving.