XC4 fuel pumps- what I've discovered

[paulmbowers 236]

I believe Amgems cobbled one together from Harbor Fright parts- not a terribly sophisticated device.

I did not use a pressure-reading device other than my thumb over the end of my emergency fuel transfer hose- and my thumb gave a reading of 13-17 lbs.

I know it's not the filter- replaced that. I have the Quantum/HFP pump here in hand and will likely install it later today.

[Bagstr 287]

Where is the Quantum made please?  The CA is China.  We don't seem to have a domestic source. I would think NAPA would have an application. Probably do; made in China. I wonder if the filter is on the pressure side of the pump?

[PbdBlue 46]

6 minutes ago, Bagstr said:

Where is the Quantum made please?  The CA is China.  We don't seem to have a domestic source. I would think NAPA would have an application. Probably do; made in China. I wonder if the filter is on the pressure side of the pump?

I think they are all made in China. Get real Bags nothing like this is made in the USA anymore. The Mahle filter is on the pressure side between the pump and the regulator so it sees the full output pressure of the pump. I've heard of cracked filters before but only on the newer bikes as mentioned. I now carry a spare filter as well as pump in my tool box. It's probably more of a motel parking lot repair than an out on the trail repair since you have to empty the fuel tank to do it. The Quantum and CA Cycle pumps look very similar. Not sure one is better than the other.

[paulmbowers 236]

Original is an Aisan, which has manufacturing plants in Korea, China, etc. 

https://www.aisan-ind.co.jp/en/company/group/asia.html
 

BluePHD is correct, the filter is on the OUTPUT side of the pump, between the pump and the regulator. Or, "Governor", if you will.

 

[paulmbowers 236]

PS: I'm not sure how many hours I have on this pump assembly, but I don't think it was beyond the 45 hours service interval. Yet, look at the ugly filter. There's speculation (which means I read it not he internet) that as the pump goes bad, it discharges black particles. The tank itself had no residue or apparent contaminants, which I'd expect to see if it was bad fuel. Even the cylindrical pump screen contained in the housing was pretty clean.

[amgems 79]

I do indeed have a pressure gauge. Made it from parts from a Harbor Freight Fuel Injection Test Pump Tester Kit (sumtin like dat) and some cheap quick disconnects, from eBay. You guys are welcome to borrow it anytime. I use it to check pressure occasionally. Works great. My 2018 had a split filter when it was new. Gauge showed 30 psi, ran like crap. When everything is working well it reads about 50-55 psi. 

 

 

[PbdBlue 46]

10 minutes ago, paulmbowers said:

PS: I'm not sure how many hours I have on this pump assembly, but I don't think it was beyond the 45 hours service interval. Yet, look at the ugly filter. There's speculation (which means I read it not he internet) that as the pump goes bad, it discharges black particles. The tank itself had no residue or apparent contaminants, which I'd expect to see if it was bad fuel. Even the cylindrical pump screen contained in the housing was pretty clean.

I've changed several of these. They always look like that. IMO the pump is not the cause but not sure what is. My assumption is that it is normal for these filters.

[Bagstr 287]

I've been " Real "  since college days. Trouble with me is that I harken back to the days where I watch my dad and uncle work on 327 V-8s with American parts.  Scarred me for life.  If fact I have an appointment to get a Real ID in August. 

In terms of "On the trail repair".  getting that clip off the pre-filter adapter is the most difficult issue. Check out the Slaven's video.

Yep, a filter and pump in the backpack. Darn-It. 

Hey Paul and Randy, Thanks for the details.  Didn't Kug lead us through this years ago?

[amgems 79]

The guys at the KTM shop here in Poway found the split filter by running the pump in a bucket with some gas in it. You could see it spraying out. That's when I put out the cigarette.

[paulmbowers 236]

11 minutes ago, Bagstr said:

I've been " Real "  since college days. Trouble with me is that I harken back to the days where I watch my dad and uncle work on 327 V-8s with American parts.  Scarred me for life.  If fact I have an appointment to get a Real ID in August. 

In terms of "On the trail repair".  getting that clip off the filter adapter is the most difficult issue. 

Yep, a filter and pump in the backpack. Darn-It. 

Hey Paul and Randy, Thanks for the details.  Didn't Kug lead us through this years ago?

The clip is a Oetiker clamp, and is easily cut with a decent pair of cutters.

I carry a pair at all times to cut barbed wire fencing, and will happily rent them in the field for $13.67 per use, payable by Venmo. 

One CAN substitute fuel injection type screw clamps. I also have some on order, and I ALSO ordered a few small brass 5/16th barbed tubes with which one can completely bypass the filter, and fits more easily in the jammed Giant Loop Mojave.

[paulmbowers 236]

Oh- and..

One can use a NAPA 3095 filter instead of the KL97. The 3095 (there's a Wix number that's very similar) is metal bodied, and lots of folks on the internet are using them. BUT! They are no applications indicated with the 3095 that suggest it's rated for fuel injection pressures. But people are successfully using them anyway.

[SoCalMule 106]

  Oh I just love the idea of running a carburetor! 

 

Quick note on being towed: "Wrap the tow line around 3-4 times to your clutch hand. Ensuring that if the towed rider loosens his clutch-hand grip, the tow line pulls free. This allows the towed rider to release the line at any time in case of trouble."

[Bp619 104]

Also wrap around shifter side footpeg once and step on it, keeps hands free and can move foot to release tension on rope

[PbdBlue 46]

1 minute ago, Bp619 said:

Also wrap around shifter side footpeg once and step on it, keeps hands free and can move foot to release tension on rope

That's the method I've used in the past. 

[paulmbowers 236]

Well, I can't recommend the HFP Kit. Here's the last communication with their "technical support". Interesting- they actually substituted the Amazon part number with a different part. The link works, but it's now just a regulator on offer, no longer the crappy kit. I assume that helps them dodge this review I promised them, complete with pictures.

 

 

No, very negative experience. Would never buy again.

 

I have a 2014 KTM 500 EXC, and my fuel pump died in the desert Monday. After some research, I found and ordered the HPF-389-U2FRU Fuel Pump with Strainer, Filter and Regulator Replacement  for KTM 500EXC/XCW as shown below:

 

 

This is quite a kit, full of little parts and extra filters for other applications- they’ve tried to make a kit that fits damn near everything, and instead created a kit that does not even fit the intended application. 

 

There are some remarkable differences- here’s a few:

 

 

 

 

 

I had to swap new/old parts and half-ass the entire thing. Eventually I got the bike running, but this is nowhere near a direct replacement, and I needed to reuse parts that should have been replaced.

 

And here’s the thing: crappy technical service. The paper insert in the box (no instructions, you’re on your own!) says they’d be happy to help- just call this number or email them or use the chat feature on their website. Yeah, riiiight.

 

Three phone calls- one no answer, two voicemails, never a call back.

 

One email, to which I received a terse reply, “Are you able to re-use your old yellow-ish clip on our pump? You would need to transfer it over. The strainer we sent is not for your model”. Yeah, well…thanks for that. I had to carefully remove the star retaining washer and use one I scavenged from a filter intended for a different application. I had to reuse a part that was clearly showing signs of age and should have been replaced.

 

2. One contact from website form because chat was unavailable.

 

I was disappointed in all of this, but I was not hostile in any of these contacts- I wanted to work it out with this vendor- I really want them to succeed and improve their offerings. But no conversation (despite their invitation), and really no help.

 

So- seriously pathetic products and even worse “service”. And because everything is now covered in fuel, I can’t, in good conscience, send it back.

 

Nope, I’d rather pay the $434 KTM wants for a new setup than deal with these folks again.

 

Stay away. You’ve been warned.

 

 

[paulmbowers 236]

Bags- the original pump...

[PbdBlue 46]

1 hour ago, paulmbowers said:

Well, I can't recommend the HFP Kit. Here's the last communication with their "technical support". Interesting- they actually substituted the Amazon part number with a different part. The link works, but it's now just a regulator on offer, no longer the crappy kit. I assume that helps them dodge this review I promised them, complete with pictures.

 

 

No, very negative experience. Would never buy again.

 

I have a 2014 KTM 500 EXC, and my fuel pump died in the desert Monday. After some research, I found and ordered the HPF-389-U2FRU Fuel Pump with Strainer, Filter and Regulator Replacement  for KTM 500EXC/XCW as shown below:

 

 

This is quite a kit, full of little parts and extra filters for other applications- they’ve tried to make a kit that fits damn near everything, and instead created a kit that does not even fit the intended application. 

 

There are some remarkable differences- here’s a few:

 

 

 

 

 

I had to swap new/old parts and half-ass the entire thing. Eventually I got the bike running, but this is nowhere near a direct replacement, and I needed to reuse parts that should have been replaced.

 

And here’s the thing: crappy technical service. The paper insert in the box (no instructions, you’re on your own!) says they’d be happy to help- just call this number or email them or use the chat feature on their website. Yeah, riiiight.

 

Three phone calls- one no answer, two voicemails, never a call back.

 

One email, to which I received a terse reply, “Are you able to re-use your old yellow-ish clip on our pump? You would need to transfer it over. The strainer we sent is not for your model”. Yeah, well…thanks for that. I had to carefully remove the star retaining washer and use one I scavenged from a filter intended for a different application. I had to reuse a part that was clearly showing signs of age and should have been replaced.

 

2. One contact from website form because chat was unavailable.

 

I was disappointed in all of this, but I was not hostile in any of these contacts- I wanted to work it out with this vendor- I really want them to succeed and improve their offerings. But no conversation (despite their invitation), and really no help.

 

So- seriously pathetic products and even worse “service”. And because everything is now covered in fuel, I can’t, in good conscience, send it back.

 

Nope, I’d rather pay the $434 KTM wants for a new setup than deal with these folks again.

 

Stay away. You’ve been warned.

 

 

That's disturbing. They market those screens as fitting the 350 and my understanding is the 350 and 500 use the same fuel pump assy.? I just ordered three that are on their way. I guess I'll see when I get them but it doesn't sound promising. I don't think the length difference is a big deal as long as the overall height of the screen is the same but the missing notch certainly is. The screen that came with the Kenso pump doesn't have the notch either. I notice that CA Cycle pump kit does not include the screen. Were all your issues mainly with the screen? Was the pump install ok? Anyone know of another source for the screen other than buying the $60 filter kit from KTM?

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-35464909-quantum-fuel-pump-strainer-qty-3-for-ktm-350-exc-f-2012-2019-replaces-78107088100.html

 

[PbdBlue 46]

One last thing. Could you measure the stock hose length from the pump outlet to the Mahle filter? CA Cycle sells the hoses seperately in different lengths and trying to figure which one to buy.

[paulmbowers 236]

The replacement strainer does not fit the stock flange-doohickey. It's juuuustt a little too small, even using lube. I couldn't get it to snap on. It easily snaps on to the aftermarket flange-doohickey. That one that is not correct for our bikes- it's for another application entirely.

I suppose it's possible the factory part has swollen from exposure to fuel, but the strainer was a no-go.

The pump setup is in the bike now, so I can't measure. They provided a length of replacement tubing with the kit that's WAY too long, so I reused the original. Because of the very tight fit on the factory pump outlet, I broke the nipple off that pump and used a hammer to fracture the broken bit left within the tubing, which allowed me to retrieve it and reuse it.

Nothing about this replacement was something I could have done in the wild. I was using all kinds of little tools, tiny sockets to drive the star retainer on, teeny pliers to remove the old star retainer, Oetiker clamps, etc.

I won't be using this fuel system for everyday riding- I just don't have the confidence in it. I'd rather wait until I can find another used system for a reasonable price. I'll take it in the truck on destination rides as a backup.

[Bagstr 287]

To Review:

The new bikes come from the factory with split filters.

The replacement parts are irregular

Confidence in the system is Low

We use this machine in extremely remote areas.

            👀 - 👀   🕵️‍♂️

[PbdBlue 46]

58 minutes ago, paulmbowers said:

The replacement strainer does not fit the stock flange-doohickey. It's juuuustt a little too small, even using lube. I couldn't get it to snap on. It easily snaps on to the aftermarket flange-doohickey. The one that is not correct for our bikes- it's for another application entirely.

I suppose it's possible the factory part has swollen from exposure to fuel, but the strainer was a no-go.
 

Which is odd since they specifically advertise these strainers as being for the 350! The part number they list as the factory reference number is the part number for the entire pump assy and not the screens they are selling. Seems a little deceptive. Hmmm....

Also the CA- Cycle kit is available with different length hoses or you can order it with an assortmant which is the version Slaven's sells. From your pictures I'm guessing it's the 4" option but I'm changing a buddy's Mahle filter this weekend so I'll measure it then. The Kemso comes with a stupid long hose. Lastly you can find the OEM complete pump assy on Amazon and a number of other places for right around $350 so a little better than the $400+ price.

[PbdBlue 46]

51 minutes ago, Bagstr said:

To Review:

The new bikes come from the factory with split filters.

The replacement parts are irregular

Confidence in the system is Low

We use this machine in extremely remote areas.

            👀 - 👀   🕵️‍♂️

I've only just recently heard of split filters and almost always a new bike involved. I wonder if it's the way they are installing them. Too many beers at lunch on the Austrian assy line? A lot of bikes used the Mahle filter for years before this started appearing. KTMANDHUSKY sells a billet aluminum filter. In theory better but ??? Personally I think I'll stick with the Mahle changed often.

https://www.ktmandhusky.com/in-tank-fuel-filter-mahle-kl-97-upd

[paulmbowers 236]

56 minutes ago, Bagstr said:

To Review:

The new bikes come from the factory with split filters.

The replacement parts are irregular

Confidence in the system is Low

We use this machine in extremely remote areas.

            👀 - 👀   🕵️‍♂️

Exactly.



 

[paulmbowers 236]

12 minutes ago, PbdBlue said:

 KTMANDHUSKY sells a billet aluminum filter. 

https://www.ktmandhusky.com/in-tank-fuel-filter-mahle-kl-97-upd

They DID.

Appear to be out of stock. Their rebuild kit, too- out of stock.

 

28 minutes ago, PbdBlue said:

Which is odd since they specifically advertise these strainers as being for the 350! The part number they list as the factory reference number is the part number for the entire pump assy and not the screens they are selling. Seems a little deceptive. Hmmm....

 Lastly you can find the OEM complete pump assy on Amazon and a number of other places for right around $350 so a little better than the $400+ price.

Yes- the list price of $434 could be discounted- Munn, Vey's, MotoWorld etc, and that's what I'll be doing.

Also yes- those screens with their corresponding white flanges are identical to the screens/flange in my kit- and they don't fit. They're wrong, and HFP told me to use the factory flange- which does not accommodate the aftermarket screen, or at least I couldn't make it fit. And it's not really rocket surgery. 

[amgems 79]

Lots and lots of these FI bikes that run for many miles with no fuel problems. The rare failures get alot of attention.