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Kaw'ee

LED Lumens and Lies

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My search started on the ADV Rider forum for a H4 headlight LED bulb. Had no idea of the online marketing deceptions when shopping for a bulb. as well as what to really look for and this is what I've learned so far

All reflector housings are designed around the halogen bulb dimensions and placement and thats why the LEDs up till now have never really work as good as the halogens for beam pattern focus, cut-off and glare.
Until just recently they are much closer to copying the same size and location that the halogens are placed at by reducing the middle web which puts more light to the horizon and less on the road right in front of you that creates glare . The problem with glare is that is causes your eyes to dilate and reduces your ability to see in the darkness farther and better.
You would have to all but contact the manufacture for this info, but looks like all the new bulbs with this new design are advertising it to help sell there bulb.

Therefore when looking for a bulb, LEDs emitters that are located with the same locations and dimensions that the halogens are at are the best bulbs available today
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I researched some sites for DOT and Lumens testing but after learning how each and every bulb regardless of testing is going to have a different result in each and every different type of reflector housings, it seamed like its not worth throwing into the mix when looking for a bulb. But there are some basic types that offer a better DOT compliant type beam
And I have bought 2 different bulbs now that I feel have just as good of a Cut-Off point as the standard halogen bulbs do.

Somewhat DOT legal H4 type bulbs for cut-off and glare ON LOW BEAM to on coming traffic are ........
Side mounted LED Emitters with Shields under the low beam emitter (high beam off)
.
Up/Down mounted LED Emitters with ONLY top led emitter on at low beam (bottom led emitter off)
.
Top mounted LED emitters that have both low & high beam emitters on top (facing up)
.
Any bulb that lights up the bottom half of your housing will create glare and no cut-off point to on coming drivers.
.
Three sided LEDs are terrible, Light will be everywhere and anywhere and they can not create a cut-off point with that type design. (blinding oncoming cars) But great for off-road only.
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And of course depending on the quality and design of the bulb. Knock-off vs Name Brand 
Even when using the above type bulbs
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Not sure if this apply's to Projector housings. I only researched Reflector housings (my bike)
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Best LEDs /
During my search and reading comments (100 plus)
Phillips "ZES" Lumileds emitters are rated the best right now
Cree "XHP70" emitters are rated second
Then all of there previous models "XXXX"
There are more, but these came up the most while searching.
Then all the Knock-Offs LEDs
Some are now adjustable for rotation as well as Focus (slide in & out)

E-Bay & Amazon may have bulbs with Phillips or Cree LEDs in them at half the price but the Knock-off brand lights do not hold the exact dimension tolerance for position of the LEDs like the Name Brand manufactures hold. .010 of a inch will diffidently effect the beam focus, just like a adjustable Mini-Mag light works. Therefore, Knock-Offs with Phillips or Cree or No-Name LED emitters are likely to have Terrible beam pattern and very poor cut-off and glare. Compared to a Name Brand Bulb
.
Unfortunately you cant really trust the Lumens rating .
Lumens ratings from Name Brand company's with Name Brand LEDs are close to the stated lumens because they care about there name and reputation, but depending on the current or late design of the bulb usable Lumens will differ . Never found one comment or YouTube test where the Name Brand bulbs were over rated . But, I saw plenty of actual YouTube tests where Knock-Off brands did not have half the stated Lumens
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ADVERTISED RAW LUMENS ..............................
If you've ever looked into LED lights, you've almost certainly read the term "lumen." It is the standard unit of measure for how well a light source will illuminate objects. Because output is typically one of the major factors people use to evaluate light-emitting diode lamps, many manufacturers prominently display this figure on product literature and boast of high lumen numbers.
What these manufacturers may fail to tell you, however, is that those big numbers are actually the raw lumen output rather than the effective lumen output.

Raw Lumens
The raw lumen output of a light is actually a theoretical value rather than an actual measure of useful light output. Manufacturers calculate raw lumens by taking the number of LEDs in a light and multiplying that by their maximum output rating. For example, if a light uses 10 LEDs that have a maximum output rating of 100 lumens, the raw lumen output would be 1,000 lumens.
No photometric testing is necessary to come up with this number - it's just simple math. The reason that raw lumens should not be relied upon for evaluating LED lights is that they don't take into account real-world factors that can decrease the light output as much as 75 percent.
The other major factors reducing raw lumen figures are the current used to drive the LEDs, optical losses, and assembly variations. Driving a higher current through an LED will produce more light, but it also make the LED hotter, thus creating thermal losses and shortening the life of the LED.
Coupling the optical losses with assembly variations, and you've got an additional 20-50 percent decrease in light output that the raw lumen figure doesn't account for.
And again due to clever marketing we will never really know how good the light is.

Effective Lumens

Effective lumens is an actual measurement of light output that does take into account all of the real world losses we've just discussed. Measuring the effective lumen output of a light requires the use of high-tech photometry equipment.

To illustrate a practical example.
LED Light #1 has an output rating of 2,000 raw lumens and 1,000 effective lumens.
LED Light #2 has an output rating of 3,000 raw lumens, but only 500 effective lumens.
If you were basing your decision solely on,, raw lumens, Light #2 would be the clear choice.
Yet your actually getting 500 less lumens output.

Some company's just flat out lie but there's another way to tell the actual Lumens
Better to trust the Watts rating / There is a Industry standard or 80-100 lumens per watt. But the better LEDs can put out 150+ lumens per watt.
10 watts will be around 1,000 Lumens
18 watts will be around 1,800 Lumens
30 watts will be around 3,000 Lumens
Ect' .........................................
So Red Flag when you see a bulb rated at 6000 Lumen but see a 25 watt rating
If your bulb has a Fan, then its using 3-5 watts to run it
So deduct that from the watt rating when figuring actual lumens
.
Advertising / Even if the lumens rating is correct you still gotta do the math ...
6000 lumens stated on a 2 pack (2 bulbs) = 3,000 lumens per bulb / 1,500 lumens on low beam / 1,500 lumens on high beam.... That's Only about 500 more lumens than a stock halogen bulb !
.
6000 lumens stated on a 1 pack (1 bulb) (motorcycle specific) = 3,000 lumens on low beam / 3,000 lumens on high beam
Or they split up the watts for each beam . Low beam may have 2,500 lumen and high beam may have 3,500 lumen
Exception is if they have the / both low and high beams on at the same time design for a different type beam pattern but they will reduce the watts as not to 60 watts being used but could get up in the 4,000 to 5,000 lumen output lite
.
Heat Sinks Temps / Heat is what kills LEDs.
Fan type run @ 90 degrees
Braided Strap run @ 140 degrees
Solid Fins type run @ 180 degrees
LEDs with 2500 lumens+ better to have a fan type
The Name Brand bulbs with the Fan - The Fans will out last the LEDs
Knock-Offs Brands the Fan's - The Fan's are failing before the LED'S on some (30%)
.
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Living in the back country I needed 2 LED bulbs for two different bikes, with 2 different type housings. 1 oval and 1 rectangular . I learned for the rectangle housing only the Side Mounted LED emitters work the best . The up/down bulbs do not. A lot of light is wasted using up mounted LEDs due to the flat top design of a rectangle housing. but again, It also depends on other some factors as well like LED Design and placement

My search was done using these priority's.

No 1 absolute... Sharp Cut-off point to on coming drivers

Top Name Brand Manufacturers. You get what you pay for 9 times out of 10
I don't include price when it comes to Safety . Riding gear, Tires, Braking, Lighting.

Design and placement of the emitters as close to the halogen bulb
Even the best LED emitters with a lot of Watts are useless without being in the right location
Also, Avoiding multi-sided, to large/many, Un-Shielded, Thick middle web, ect'
Rotation of the bulb is something to look for as well if Fixed or Adjustable
Just looking at the bulb can tell you a lot.

Wattage and Raw lumens rating "at each setting" (low/high beam) is the starting factor for brightness
Your never going to have a bright LED with a bulb that already has a low wattage or a Raw Lumens rating

Quality and the most current Name Brand LED emitters
Top brand emitters can use a higher percentage of the Raw Lumens
While cheaper emitters will typically make much less use of the Raw lumens

Fan Type heat sink
Heat is what kills LEDs and well as reduce's lumens output the hotter they run

Color / K (Kelvins)
Going lower than 5500K will also reduce the lumen output on a bulb with the same Raw Lumen rating
And I'm buying a LED for more brightness so having a higher K (Kelvins) rating comes with the deal

Beam Pattern
All above things & for usable light (1st post)
Actual Pictures, Videos, Reviews, & real life visuals
.
I did my first 20 mile test rides on both my bikes last night after deciding which bulb was better for which bike and don't think i could go back to halogens ever again. The safety factor with the brighter LEDs is twice that of a halogen.

The newer LEDs that are designed right have as good of a good cut-off point to on coming drivers as the halogens do now in my opinion. I would not use one if they did even for the better safety visibility to myself. They might notice slightly more glare due to its a brighter light, but they are not being blinded by the beam like the older LEDs or poorly designed ones will. AS LONG AS YOU BUY THE RIGHT BULB ! 

As far as doing reviews ...
Along the same lines as not using Raw Lumens Ratings for deciding on a bulb. 
Also, Reviews, Pictures & Videos should not be used when looking for a LED
What there Picture or video looks like is not what your going to actually see. 
And if they show a dark back road or half lit city or flat land vs wooded area, ect'
The written comments are actually better information but still ...
Any review is only useful if you have the exact same bike/housing and wanting the same kind of beam for your personal preference.
This is what I noticed while reading reviews, And now first hand experience after installing two different bulbs in the same bike 
I also put each of the two different bulbs into my two different bike's. One with a Oval housing and One with a rectangle housing and had Totally different results using the same bulb, 
Therefore I would give totally different reviews for the same bulb depending which bike it is in.
Total brightness (Lumens) didn't change much but Beam Pattern, Cut-off point, and Usable light did. 

So ya, You really don't know how good LED is until you try it in your bike. 
And why i came up with my priority list for my needs to make my best guess 
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thats alot of brain surgery just to select a bulb.

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Thank you for enlightening me on this subject! 

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After all that information, I feel like the brightest bulb on the tree!

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Well I’ve never been the brightest bulb in the pack but this might shed a little light on the subject.

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Thank you for this post, Kaw'ee. Did I miss what brand you selected?

 

I actually changed out my lights recently too. Pictures are below.

 

As you mentioned, I found that there is so much misadvertising and confusion out there on the interwebs. I spent a couple hours reading, watching youtube videos, reading reviews and  still was confused and unconfident in my purchase. I ended up going with the Lightening Dark Nucleus. At first, I wasn't really, 'wowed', by them. But they have grown on me. I don't really ride at night so I can't say with any authority as to whether or not they are a step change from the OEM. But at sunrise/sunset conditions, they seem to be an improvement. I even notice them during the day when they reflect of of street signs.

 

As of now, I would buy again. I can't say that I would recommend. I just don't know enough about lights or have enough time with these to do that. I will also disclose, if you have a Yamaha Super Tenere, the dust or element covers wont fit with these lights.

 

 

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Original HID light (Right one burnt out | LOW BEAM)

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Original HID light (Right one burnt out | HIGH BEAM)

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New Lightening Dark blubs

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New Lightening Dark bulbs | LOW BEAM

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New Lightening Dark bulbs | HIGH BEAM

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31 minutes ago, erik_26 said:

Thank you for this post, Kaw'ee. Did I miss what brand you selected?

I put a 10,000 Lumen Cyclops 10.0 Ultra in my KLX250S

This is a video of the Cyclops 10.0 Ultra in my KLX up to 3:45 sec's in.
Then the last 45 sec's it is in a Oval Housing Z125 Pro headlight

 
 

And a 7,200 Lumen ADVmonster Native H4 in my Z125

https://youtu.be/5xgyf0nFxfI

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After riding with the ADVmonster Native H4 some more I am switching to a Cyclops 10.0 Ultra in the Z125

The ADVnative H4 is a great bulb for those riding street and fire roads at 45 mph plus most of the time
The Low Beam is the same brightness as the High Beam, The high beam just points higher but both beams are so bright it dosent need to get any brighter than the low beam . And with the Low beam off during High beam, there is hardly any close in front glare coming off the road, so you can see better farther down the road which is what makes it a better bulb for 50 mph plus riding
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The Cyclops 10.0 "ULTRA" uses both low and high beam on at the High beam setting and purposely puts the high beam just on top of the low beam for more all around light in front of you which is what I need for riding between 25-45 mphs most of the time . and the beam is 3 times as tall as the Native H4 , but not all that much brighter than the Native H4 so that is not part of the deciding factor
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The "Standard" cyclops 10.0 bulb (not the "ultra") works like the Native H4 and most other bulbs and turns off the low beam during high beam and gets rid of the in front glare for riding 50 mphs plus type riding. And puts the High beam above the low beam more
And is still a much taller beam pattern and just plain more light everywhere than the Native H4 if thats worth the extra cost t

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Kaw'ee, is the Jan 5, 2013 timestamp accurate? You have some weird timestamps going on in your videos.

 

In any case, nice write up for all of us and great videos. Thank you!

 

I did look at the Cyclops version for my bike and wasn't sure if the $150 price point was worth it or not. I guess I need to get out after dark with my lights and see what I think.

 

On a side note, @bradwill and I were talking about how it seems like most motorcycle gear and accessories are around $500. All these little gadgets, tools, tech and toys start to get expensive really fast.

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No. The time stamp is not correct... I dont even know how to set it ?

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But its a awesum little camera thats the size of a Zipo lighter ! ... not like the bulky Go-Pros

All of the videos on my YouTube Channel were shot with this camera.

  • Captures clear video of vehicles on the road (1080p HD)
  • Never miss anything important with loop recording
  • Automatically turns on and off
  • Lightweight design goes anywhere covertly
  • On-the-go convenience (2 hour battery life)
  • Stores 19 hours of HD video (with 128GB memory card) 

https://www.spytec.com/mobius-1080p-hd-action-camera.html

Helmet Cam.JPG

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On my 07 KTM 450 exc I found that replacing the standard 35 watt Halogen H4 bulb with a 65 watt bulb has been a very illuminating experience. Was thinking that I could use a red bulb so that I wouldn't mess with my night vision 🙄

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I've had good luck with DDM Tuning.  Local shop that specializes in vehicle lighting retrofit. Also have a  longer more reputable online presence.

I walked in with a warranty request... they had a test bench ready to go, made a quick diagnosis and handed me a replacement, Can't beat that.

 

Kawee, 

Thanks for your post and thanks for caring about not blinding oncoming traffic, seems that most either don't understand or care about this issue. I've found that projector type housings offer the best street beam pattern when changing emitter types.

 I'm stoked with this projector for street use, killer cutoff, happy drivers. Baja designs for highbeam. Summer time night rides!!

20181218_161906.jpg

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