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If you ride at Pine Valley you need to hear this. On Saturday when I returned to my truck at the Pine Valley cul-de-sac after riding Bear Valley Road on my dirt bike, Michelle, the forest service law enforcement was there. As soon as I stepped off my bike she came running over with her wire and stuck it in the tail pipe of my bike to check for a spark arrester. No problem as I had the right equipment.

After walking back to her vehicle she came back with a camera and took a picture of my bike, said it was a nice bike and asked what year it was. I should have known better than to even acknowledge her but told her it was an '01 and asked why she wanted a picture of it. She said they have a bunch of pictures of people riding illegal trails in the area and said she is going to use the picture of my bike so she can take me to court and get my motorcycle taken away for 30 days. I was floored! I had heard a while back that the tree huggers were hiding out along the trails to take pictures of the illegal riders in the area. I don't know if this is true but it sure sounds plausible to me. I also know there are automatic wildlife cameras that have movement sensors take pictures of things that pass in front of them. They could be using them too.

Now, I know that none of us knowingly ride illegal trails but it sure sounds like we are being setup for some outrageous abuses of the system here. My warning to you if you ride at Pine Valley is to not park at the cul-de-sac and if you see a ranger you need to get as far away from them as fast as possible. Meanwhile I'm worried that I'm could be "set-up" and prosecuted by the forest service and their co-conspirators the vigilante eco-nazis.

Just in case, does anyone know of a good lawyer that could help with this if they come after us?

(THIS HAPPEND TO A FRIEND OF MINE NOT ME)

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...She said they have a bunch of pictures of people riding illegal trails in the area and said she is going to use the picture of my bike so she can take me to court and get my motorcycle taken away for 30 days.

(THIS HAPPEND TO A FRIEND OF MINE NOT ME)

Um, if the bike photos matched that is, and if the photos of illegal riding can be authenticated in court. Otherwise that's quite a statement. In discovery, they should get copies of any evidence.

Is this off another forum or directly from someone you know? I'm just asking because sometimes these kinds of messages take on a life of their own.

Anyway, it's a good warning none-the-less.

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Come on. I can see it now. Look judge its and orange bike. Please take his bike away. Yes the color is disgusting, but that in itself is not enough to get it taken away. They would have to have a license plate and other information. Just like a traffic light camera.

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Yes, change your bikes stickers and your riding outfit once a week :lol: "That's not me, yer honor!"

Or a guy sells you his bike and gear for a really good deal and the next week you are in court! :o

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Come on. I can see it now. Look judge its and orange bike. Please take his bike away. Yes the color is disgusting, but that in itself is not enough to get it taken away. They would have to have a license plate and other information. Just like a traffic light camera.

And even if it is a traffic cam situation. The vehicle is not the offender, the driver is. If somebody borrows your car and runs a traffic light the ticket comes to your house and is in your name. When you show up in court, you say it wasn't me, it wasn't my wife, it wasn't my kids, I don't know what to tell ya judge, other than "Not Guilty". Case Dismissed.

Now if somebody riding your bike out of bounds gets caught red handed, they can and may impound your bike. You'll get it back, eventually, for a price, maybe go to court, but you'll get it back.

Good info ozzy thanks for sharing, all the more reason to stay in bounds.

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Ok, yes I'm a noob, but I'm not sure what the big threat is here.

As pointed out earlier, these issues are subject to due process. If the ranger was smart enough, she took a picture of your friend in his riding gear, with his helmet off, standing next to his bike. That's probably enough to get a conviction if necessary. But I'd still fight it. Unlike the previous poster, I'd simply plead not guilty and let them try to prove it was me. Wearing that full-face helmet.

But- was your friend issued a citation? Any sort of ticket? Did he sign any promise to appear?

Second- was your friend riding in an out-of-bounds area, purposely or not?

Just like traffic light cameras, if I don't run a red light, I don't worry about the silent black helicopters or sneaky environmentalists with cameras.

And just like my speeding ticket on radar the other day- when they catch you, it's all part of the game.

fn

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Guest Hammerin Hammon

This is one of the reasons, I ride a TRUE dual sport (XR650L) No truck needed. :o

The ranger or cops, dont have a place to wait for me. :lol:

I've been playing this game for years. :D

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I just don't like the "we're watching you" big brother concept of it. When I used to ride sport bikes on Palomar in the 80s and 90s(years, not miles per hour), the CHP used to come up to the restaraunt and snap pictures of all the bikes license plates that were parked up there, presumably so they could catch you if you were racing. I never had a problem with this personally, and I understand that some of the riders were maniacs on the road up there, but the concept of it still bothered me, just as the concept of what was discribed above bothers me. I don't like to ride any trail that is clearly marked as out of bounds. There are some of those out at Pine Valley with the little posts sticking up in the middle of them. If you ride one of those and get caught fair and square, you were asking for it.

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There is a bit of singletrack off the main road. As this is a designated OHV area, and there is not signage indicating you CAN'T ride off the main road (that I've seen) I can't see what the big deal is...

If there is a fence up (or clearly WAS up before somebody knocked it over) I would say that makes it off limits.

I think of the rest as OHV.

If they spent as much time and money improving and expanding riding areas, as they do patrolling and closing them, I think we'd all be happier.

As for hypocritical environmentalists... Yeah; drive your 10 mpg suv to the trails so you can enjoy nature YOUR way, then get tweaked because we are getting 40 mpg on our environmentally smart dual sport motorcycles :lol:

Yesterday I got to see a HUGE coyote, some quail and some red tailed hawks... I LOVE nature. I respect nature...

I got out of the Sierra Club because I don't believe the really respect nature, and our place in it... they want us ALL out of it... motorcycles; out... mountain bikes out :o ...

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as far fetched as this post sounds I do have to add my response. There aren't that many side trails out at pine valley and it does have an OHV sign at the off ramp so I don't really see why they are trying to set people up at a place where no one really goes off the trail to begin with? There are a few closed trails but I've never been tempted enought to check them out, its pine valley fer cryin out loud. I'm confused. :lol:

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I'm confused. :lol:

Me too. :o

I'd imagine they're mainly interested in finding/ticketing "NON Street Plated" riders/bikes that have been parking at the Cul de Sac and riding up the road and/or accross Kernan to the Corral Canyon OHV area illegally to avoid the hassle of driving around and over to Corral Canyon and parking there as required when you're riding a "stickered" bike.......the street license plate is your free pass to park and ride from the Pine Valley Cul de Sac (provided you stay on public/open trails & roads)....that's the whole point of having a street licensed dual sport bike - "convenience & access" :D

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as far fetched as this post sounds I do have to add my response. There aren't that many side trails out at pine valley and it does have an OHV sign at the off ramp so I don't really see why they are trying to set people up at a place where no one really goes off the trail to begin with? There are a few closed trails but I've never been tempted enought to check them out, its pine valley fer cryin out loud. I'm confused. :lol:

OK- Bear Valley Road is the big fire road that goes all the way up to Kearnan (some times, it has gone all the way over to Buckman springs, but they normally keep that gate closed to reduce the flow of international travelers)

spurring off from this fire road are MANY small trails... some go in to private land (Corte Madera), some hit the riparian areas, some go nowhere... I think these are the trails they are talking about.

You may cross Morena Stokes road with a green sticker, and you may ride from within the cul de sac to the trail... if you park outside of the cul de sac to avoid the Adventure Pass fee, then you would have to ride "on the street" and technically be illegal if you are green stickered.

I feel a bit sorry for the Rangers... I don't think they wanted to be a ranger to give tickets for no adventure pass, or to stick a coat hanger up my tail pipe... but the greenies are so motivated to get their agenda, that when policy is made, THEY are there in force, while we are out riding the trails in question...

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About the rangers. Bikeslut is right. They have to enforce everything to the max. If they don't, the greenies from Washington will say to them "you aren't doing your job" and simply close the area to public use. So in a way, it isn't their fault they seem to be so unreasonable. I still don't like it, though :lol:

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Me too. :)

I'd imagine they're mainly interested in finding/ticketing "NON Street Plated" riders/bikes that have been parking at the Cul de Sac and riding up the road and/or across Kernan to the Corral Canyon OHV area illegally to avoid the hassle of driving around and over to Corral Canyon and parking there as required when you're riding a "stickered" bike.......the street license plate is your free pass to park and ride from the Pine Valley Cul de Sac (provided you stay on public/open trails & roads)....that's the whole point of having a street licensed dual sport bike - "convenience & access" :D

Bear Valley road connecting to the Kernan cycle trail is all green sticker legal. See this map: Link

Like bikeslut mentioned, there are many side spur trails that wind all over the mountain that cut off Bear Valley road - some are lots of fun (or so I've heard :lol:), but many cross private property. Also, many are not posted in an way (or so I've heard :o), or are posted on one side but not the other. That's not an excuse for riding on them though, since OHV's (actually all vehicles I think) are only permitted on established trails/routes in the National Forest areas. These routes are well documented on websites and on maps at Pine Valley, 4-corners, and both campgrounds (although vandalism has hit a few of them).

We ride quite a bit out of Pine Valley in order to avoid the drive around to Corral Canyon - it's totally leagal - even on a quad (now that Kernan is no longer width limited).

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Bear Valley road connecting to the Kernan cycle trail is all green sticker legal. See this map: Link

Thanks for the clarification.....I knew you needed a plate coming up from Buckman Springs Rd. so I assumed (incorrectly) that you also needed a plate from the Cul de Sac......but now I remember seeing a posted sign up near the entrance to Kernan that says something like, "street legal vehicles only beyond this point" (on Bear Valley Rd. which leads down to Buckmen Springs if you don't hang a right on Kernan).....I don't head out there too much so I'm not familiar with the area - obviously :lol:

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Who is to say where the picture took place.Its not like there is a sign or a street name you happen to be riding by when they snap the shot. they can take a picture of you in a legal area and then say it was a closed area.. it all looks the same in a picture.

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I agree. Yes, there are cameras that can stamp the GPS coordinates in the file, but those are pretty rare, and would require the photographer to testify as an expert witness. Way too much messing around for a simple error in navigation.

This is nothing but smoke.

fn

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As for hypocritical environmentalists... Yeah; drive your 10 mpg suv to the trails so you can enjoy nature YOUR way, then get tweaked because we are getting 40 mpg on our environmentally smart dual sport motorcycles :rolleyes:

Don't even go there.

I could go into specifics, but if motorcycles ever have to get smogged we are going to get clobbered.

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I agree. Yes, there are cameras that can stamp the GPS coordinates in the file, but those are pretty rare, and would require the photographer to testify as an expert witness. Way too much messing around for a simple error in navigation.

This is nothing but smoke.

fn

I agree. But I still don't like it, if Michelle is actually using this scare tactic on riders. If she knows or suspects that somebody is likely to be on a trail, she should go out there and catch them fair and square, not threaten them with tales of surveilance. Maybe the described incident was embellished. I have heard more than a few "free spirited" riders complain about having a go-round with Michelle and because of her tenacity she is considered to be "The Man" by both critics and her supporting co-workers. She could do worse to offenders, as she usually lets them off with a stern warning, but after reading the rules and codes on the U.S. forest service website, I see that she could be within her rights to issue citations that would carry fines up to 5 or 6 hundred dollars for each offence. In fact, I am glad that I read the codes so it will help me understand more about what's legal and what isn't out there on the trail. Then I won't accidently transgress any of the rules.

I have been riding out in her area for years, and in that time I have run across Michelle when she is in a good mood and I have run across her when she is in a bad mood. My advice is to not get on her bad side when it's showing, and never give any ranger any lip.

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As for hypocritical environmentalists... Yeah; drive your 10 mpg suv to the trails so you can enjoy nature YOUR way, then get tweaked because we are getting 40 mpg on our environmentally smart dual sport motorcycles :rolleyes:

Don't even go there.

I could go into specifics, but if motorcycles ever have to get smogged we are going to get clobbered.

I'd be shocked if: combining gas milage, traffic impact, and emissions (per mile traveled), my bike was near as bad as an suv, as far as overall impact... but; I've been shocked before.

And I've yet to meet an extremist on anything that is not a hypocrite... (i have a few in my immediate family)

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And I've yet to meet an extremist on anything that is not a hypocrite...

Your bringing back memories of Seattle Sea Fair 1997. My ship had a nuclear warheaded balistic missle firing nuclear powered submarine tied up alongside us for the week's festivities. At least once a day a few hundred Greenpeace protesters would float up in black smoke belching diesel powered fishing boats to rant and rave about having the nuclear submarine there. Didn't seem very green to me, they could've ridden their bicycles and stood at the gate to the pier and gotten a bigger impact to the public. :) With what they did it was just the Navy that saw them and then sprayed 'em with firehoses when they got too close to the sub. :)

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Comparing a few puffs of black smoke to the potential catastrophe that can come from something nuclear, now thats extreme! Not taking any side, just pointing out that people can manipulate anything to fit their agenda. This must of happened before the Yemen attack.

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I was at Pine Valley today and was pleased that no hyperactive rangers were there. However, I was not pleased with quad riders who like to stop in the middle of the road two-abreast to take their snack break, or whatever they were doing. So nice of them to leave a tiny bit of room through the rutted part.

Douchebags.

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Comparing a few puffs of black smoke to the potential catastrophe that can come from something nuclear, now thats extreme! Not taking any side, just pointing out that people can manipulate anything to fit their agenda. This must of happened before the Yemen attack.

The comparison was the hypocrisy of greenpeace using black smoke spewing BIG carbon footprint fishing boats. The sub was just why they were there. Hell, bum on just about any given day of the year there's gotta be a half dozen or so mobile nuke plants parked in San Diego Bay. No BFD to me, I used to work there.

Yes it was before Yemen, that's why they used the firehose and not the 20mm.

Quadtards.....douchebags.....:)

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