Legal question.

[robertaccio 405]

as for the lack of braking, steering and bike control statement.....look at every top tier off road racer from MX to Rally on the "footrests"......

all that said there still has not been a VC number written down, except reckless.

[dirt dame 559]

I also remember reading in DMV MC handbook that the rider needed to be able to touch the ground with both feet when sitting on the seat. Back in those days, it was easy enough....all the bikes were relatively short. But I can't touch the ground with both feet on my modern DS bikes, and no cop has ever given me a ticket for "being too short" while riding my bike.

[Vacman 0]

Most guys racing aren't riding 600lb street bikes in between cars and panic braking. If you take the same person standing and sitting on the same bike and ask him to brake as hard and as fast as he can, he will stop shorter when sitting. If only because when standing he's having to shift his weight before he can apply full brakes.

Have you ever panic stopped an abs equipped bike? If you smash the front brake while standing, you're likely to go over the bars. It's simple physics.

[SteelRain 0]

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

[darylhunter 1]

A number of us have probably done some pretty hard braking and maneuvering at one point or another while standing on the pegs riding on the dirt and still maintained control.

The ergonomics of a dual sport bike is reasonably suited to riding while standing, unlike say a sport bike where everything is set up for a tucked in seating position.

I got a ticket once when I was 16 because I took both hands off the bars for a moment to massage my wrists and shake out my hands. Residential zone going less than 25 mph, no kids or parked cars, etc to worry about at that spot. Ticket was for Negligent Driving.

I think if they want to get you, they'll find some lame vague VC that is fairly broad and hope you don't fight it. Or as in my case above, fought it but lost anyway.

[Vacman 0]

Is this where I'm supposed to bust out the abs vs non abs panic braking chart showing even a pro can barely outbrake stock abs in controlled conditions and then you tell me that it doesn't apply? Not gonna bother. When mrs jones pulls a hard left across your path I hope you don't hit her whether you have abs on or off.

The reality is laws are written for the 99%, not the 1%. I don't agree with many of them but I understand why they're there.

[Oracle 195]

I'm a motor cop and have a pretty good grasp of the CVC (California Vehicle Code) as I use it on a daily basis while doing traffic enforcement. I am unaware of any section that specifically makes it illegal for a rider to stand on the foot pegs while moving. With that said, I regularly enforce maybe 20 to 30 sections of the CVC out of a book that is 4" to 5" thick, so I'm not saying it doesn't exist. But if it does, I'd be surprised that I didn't know about it.

It bothers me as a cop who places a high value on playing by the rules that the officer that stopped you couldn't site a section of the CVC that you supposedly violated. At the speed and conditions you described, I don't see a violation.

Those that say it is illegal, or "have a friend" that told them it is illegal, please cite a section so that we can read it ourselves.

[Oracle 195]

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

[Afry 1]

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

Doesn't look like any panic here, cool as a cucumber!

[SteelRain 0]

I never once said that ABS took longer to stop.

As a too 5 nationally ranked rider in the early 2000s I have a little experience with hard braking and trail braking at the threshold... But this is NOT THE POINT.

When is a motorbike most stable? Under power. When is it least stable (other than when not moving)? Under braking conditions, especially hard braking.

Best option is the old adage of "power it out" keeping atleast 60% of weight on the rear wheel.

If you wish to continue a discussion based in physics and reality, start anpther thread.

[SteelRain 0]

@Oracle, thank you for your enlightment. As a former Marine I hold the military, police, public servants to an acceptable high standard and I agree with you

[Oracle 195]

I never once said that ABS took longer to stop.

As a too 5 nationally ranked rider in the early 2000s I have a little experience with hard braking and trail braking at the threshold... But this is NOT THE POINT.

When is a motorbike most stable? Under power. When is it least stable (other than when not moving)? Under braking conditions, especially hard braking.

Best option is the old adage of "power it out" keeping atleast 60% of weight on the rear wheel.

If you wish to continue a discussion based in physics and reality, start anpther thread.

I miss-understood your original response to Vacman's comment regarding ABS braking then.

Now I see where you are coming from and agree about the bike being more stable under power.

I'm not looking to start another thread, just responding to other comments made in this one, including yours.

[Oracle 195]

@Oracle, thank you for your enlightment. As a former Marine I hold the military, police, public servants to an acceptable high standard and I agree with you

No problem.

[rojodogg 0]

So to sum it up, we do not know of any law or violation in the CVC that states that you can not stand up on the pegs while moving in a safe manner.

[bikeslut 1]

I believe that is accurate. I will tell you, non-riders "don't get it"...I've had people at work saying "I saw you showing off this morning"...hmmm...thinking back....nope; can't remember..." what was I doing?"..."standing up"..." I call that stretching...sheesh"

[Driss 0]

Commenting on the picture and where it was taken.

I did go to Coronado a couple of weeks ago and watch them maneuver the bikes....amazing control and knowledge.

They should video the whole thing and show it on TV so idiots know they can't run from the law enforcement officers.

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

Doesn't look like any panic here, cool as a cucumber!

Badazz.jpg

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

Doesn't look like any panic here, cool as a cucumber!

Badazz.jpg

[Oracle 195]

Commenting on the picture and where it was taken.

I did go to Coronado a couple of weeks ago and watch them maneuver the bikes....amazing control and knowledge.

They should video the whole thing and show it on TV so idiots know they can't run from the law enforcement officers.

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

Doesn't look like any panic here, cool as a cucumber!

Badazz.jpg

Obviously you haven't panic braked on an ABS bike....

I tested it out and realized it was garbage because the braking is very subdued compared to a non-ABS bike.

The ABS logic should be thrown out because no intelligent rider would use it except maybe in the wet if they are a novice.

And shifting weight on my 1200GSA is not required unless you 7 feet tall.

I've panic braked a few times on the road and I participate in on-going training in panic braking on a monthly basis. I will say unequivocally that an ABS bike will stop in a shorter distance than a non ABS bike in a panic braking situation. Even if the rider is highly skilled in threshold braking. If could be the difference between life or death in my opinion.

Doesn't look like any panic here, cool as a cucumber!

Badazz.jpg

That is me in the picture so thanks for the compliment.

Riding techniques are perishable skills, so we practice a lot.

[Mikey777 44]

I did a text search for "footpeg" and "standing" in the CVC. No such code section about standing on footpegs or pegs, so if an officer is issuing a citation for this he or she is using something rather generic.

[bikeslut 1]

yeah- I think what people are saying... reckless driving is the leading candidate. its a bullshit call on their part, as far as I am concerned, but that's what the court system is for. Good luck in court David

[SteelRain 0]

I'm not going to court, no ticket. He couldn't come up with a violation... And I'm pretty sure he saw the cameras front, rear, and helmet along with the helmet mic. I even took the courtesy to inform him I record anytime the bike leaves the garage.

[TrophyHunter 15]

Submitted Oct 8, got back today. Pretty much as determined, subjective with a catch all if they can articulate it.

Wed 10/21/2015 12:39 PM

CHP-COMR <COMR@chp.ca.gov>

Good afternoon,

In regards to your question, there is no specific code that restricts standing on the foot pegs or controls of a motorcycle. It is common practice to raise off the seat of a motorcycle while going over a bump or hole in the road. However standing up on a motorcycle, could be perceived as reckless, based on the officers discretion, in consideration to the weather, speed, other traffic, and roadway design.

Hafta say, if they ever wrote me for reckless, a huge DMV point and insurance problem, we'd be in court.

[Vacman 0]

Key words: other traffic. Standing on a long, lonesome highway...not a big deal. Standing while lanesplitting...bigger deal. IMO, anyway.

Thanks for the followup, Ken.

[darylhunter 1]

I wonder if removing the strap on seat from this would make it non-street legal

https://youtu.be/eF2wK2BUY3A

But even if the seat were left on, there's a pretty good argument that the bike was made to be ridden standing up.

Suppose it wouldn't matter much anyway in some of the kangaroo courts where neither the officer or the judge have any experience riding a motorcycle and any motorcyclist is pretty much considered guilty regardless of the situation.

[bikeslut 1]

_{I'll go out on a limb, and assume non-riders think standing is dangerous, fool hardy and showing off... nothing could be further from the truth, and I would hate to have to appear in court to explain it... Just yesterday, on the way in to work, I momentarily stood up to rearrange my ... uh... pants... and realized I did it right in front of a sheriff.}

_{but he didn't do anything}

_{I've had nothing but great interactions with sheriff in my area... including the redlight I ran last week... lol... right in front of him (rainy night and poor vision).}

_{LEOs can decide to cause you problems, or help you along. I hope I can trust the judge to do the right thing.}

_{another example... driving 80 on the freeway (70 limit) and I see a pair of headlights SCREAMING up behind me; I gas it to pass a semi, then slide to the right, and he lights me up for doing 92. I had no explanation other than he was a jerk. But not going to win in court, so I just bit the bullet and paid it.}

[carguy 1]

This is an interesting thread. When I taught Dirtbike School, students were required to stand on the pegs for better control. Braking, turning and balance were key. This would be a good argument in court..