Taking Suspension to the Next Level!

[Suspenders 43]

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BUILD SUSPENSION ON A WHOLE NEW LEVEL?

This is indeed still a work in progress. Should it end up on the shelf we had a wonderful & fun dream!
The ideas flow, many of them shelved but each time solutions have been discovered.
Watch the progress as it morphs into something amazing!

The beginning;
Pneumatic / Air suspension is cheaper to make and lighter = win win.
First Honda, Kawasaki now Suzuki.
Met with Gibbs JGR at Washougal and even they are on the KYB air fork & they ride Yamaha.
OK so pneumatic suspension is here to stay this time around.

The first air fork on the block, KYB PSF Model 1 and model 2 have issues.

A. Fork seal leaks. It takes just a tiny bit of air to leak & the front of the bike drops. There is no spring to hold it up, only air.
The End!

B. Internal air pressure changes due to temperature, Altitude and more.
Air pressure fluctuation changes your air spring rates. Like putting stiffer springs into your forks in the middle of a ride or race.

C. Public complaints because they have to pump each fork up before each ride.

D. Harsh from middle to end of stroke. Ouch strike 4.

So how do we fix these?

Idea #1
Co2/N2 cartridge connected to both forks with an adjustable step down so the fork will never drop below 32psi.
A leaky fork seal releases less volume than most would imagine so you would be able to finish your moto quite handily and no more filling forks with an air pump.

*Good idea but - Could you use it offroad or in dual sport? Let alone Baja, the air would not last that long.
Not enough air!
(Shelved)

Idea #2
Install a micro compressor. Now we have enough air to keep the forks alive! It's ALIVE!

A. Solved
B. No effect
C. Solved
D. No effect

Idea #3 Add a pressure regulator to keep the pressure consistent.

*Good idea but - how does the regulator know when to activate and adjust psi?
Compressed fork pressure can spike to nearly 400lbs. If the regulator does not know when to activate, it would let the air out of your forks.

Idea #4
Build a mechanical device that will trigger the regulator when the forks top out.
* Good idea but - what about the negative spring / top out spring? Its job is to keep the fork from topping out. So the forks would not top out in the same place each time. Dang it!

We did indeed solve this issue. Can you guess how?

If you have ideas we would love to here them!
If there is no interest no worries I will go polish my swingarms with a big smile.

By the way those of you that know don't spill the beans but feel free to throw in hints or anything that makes it a fun conversation.

[Beta450 0]

How about an external adjuster like on a by-pass shock. Then you can adjust at 3 different positions of the piston travel in the fork tube.

[Strega 0]

My head is still spinning...

[paulmbowers 236]

[Dress4Less 162]

My head is still spinning...

x2!

[hobiee 28]

oooo oooo oooo I know I know I know, now how do I hint.

Think R/c cars

[Boston Mangler 0]

I don't know what any of that mumbo jumbo you describe above means, but that 4 bikes you have set up for me have been NIGHT AND DAY better!!!

Suspenders = Da Man

[daijones 0]

All of these additions seem to be negating one of the original goals of cheaper.

Also somewhat surprised they're having so much issues, I sachs hydrocross air shocks on my 1980 KTM RV125 and had no issues with leaking, I would recheck pressure which involved a bit of leakage so would have to add a bit of air back in to compensate once a month or so but that was it so surely with seal technology improvements in 30 years it should be difficult to prevent leaks.

[Crawdaddy 96]

[bikeslut 1]

sounds like sorcery to me... i'd stay FAR away from such nonsense... you'll get my heavy steel springs and contaminated hydraulic fluid when you pry them from my cold dead hands

[Suspenders 43]

"All of these additions seem to be negating one of the original goals of cheaper.

Also somewhat surprised they're having so much issues, I sachs hydrocross air shocks on my 1980 KTM RV125 and had no issues with leaking, I would recheck pressure which involved a bit of leakage so would have to add a bit of air back in to compensate once a month or so but that was it so surely with seal technology improvements in 30 years it should be difficult to prevent leaks."

Cheaper for the manufacturers to build but us aftermarket guys like to take more of your money.

Regarding the leaky fork seals the larger fork tubes tend to leak much more readily than smaller tubes.

[kato 53]

Ahahahhhh Bob!!!

[PastaPilot 17]

Filled with smoke.

The smoke fills the remaining gap in the seals preventing the loss of compressed air.

[REV5 0]

Resolution: leave air shocks to low riders.

[dirt dame 559]

Best rear suspension on any of my race bikes in the late 70s were the Fox air shocks. Worked great and were the only shocks that were easily tuned right at the track. All I needed was a small automotive air compressor and a T bleeder guage, and it was all good!

[Suspenders 43]

OK so we did have a mechanical device that was going to work but what a pain just to keep the right amount of air in a dang fork.

And we would have to design one for each model of fork including your forks. You see even a spring fork can be turned into an air fork very easily.

We ended up designing in an ECU.

Yes an Electrical Control Unit. Something that would be used to control your RC car or your motorcycle Engine etc. They only cost about $5 or $10.

Now it gets interesting!

With an ECU software can be written to make your suspension do things!

Software can make your car go ding ding when your low on fuel, or stop your car before hitting the car in front of you.

What would you want your suspension to do for you today?

[daijones 0]

"All of these additions seem to be negating one of the original goals of cheaper.

Also somewhat surprised they're having so much issues, I sachs hydrocross air shocks on my 1980 KTM RV125 and had no issues with leaking, I would recheck pressure which involved a bit of leakage so would have to add a bit of air back in to compensate once a month or so but that was it so surely with seal technology improvements in 30 years it should be difficult to prevent leaks."

Cheaper for the manufacturers to build but us aftermarket guys like to take more of your money.

Regarding the leaky fork seals the larger fork tubes tend to leak much more readily than smaller tubes.

Not sure I agree that larger fork tubes tend to leak much more readily than smaller tubes, anyway my sachs shocks had 40mm or so lowers so not much different from forks. I Think the difference is back then especially on rear additional stiction wasn't seen as a big deal but now we know more and I think that's the issue with air forks that to get consistent performance without all the add ons to compensate that regular seals can't work so only options are higher stiction/lower loss seals with lesser performance or the standard low stiction seals with a scheme to compensate for issues.