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They have other trails, designating vehicles 40 inches wide or less, some dissuading horses from access, and some places have singletrack (one set of wheels) designations

Bob- if I could make one other suggestion (and I did last time I saw Rich out there) was to make some one-way trails...

I also agree with Mimi, IF they are open to a bike only trail; let nature keep the bigger vehicles out...that being said...non balancers still have the same OHV frustrations we do....fewer trails, a surplus of cash, and no place to ride

Now that I have been working behind the scenes I get a better sense of how clumsy and slow acting the machine is. It seems a simple thing like one way trails would be a quick and easy fix... No so. For example. After much debate a mobile semi permanent port a potty was needed for four corners, so everyone thought. Finding the location, finding a toilet, getting the funds, finding out that the semi cant get it up the road, now the last meeting they say engineering has to come up with a book full of solutions towards requirements of the special needs folks... I honestly don't expect to see one up there for a few more years.

Just make a trail one direction would take counting the number of vehicles using the trail for several months. document the direction most are traveling now. What effect if any would that change would have on other trails and the environment around the one way trail. A budget increase would have to be made up for additional signage. Applications to Washington begging for $'s for signs would have to be summited and approved. and so on and on and on and on...

Right now Richard has his hands full just getting to the point where he can actually make new trails. Not only for bikes but for the full spectrum of users of the park. I might suggest as a SDAR group we make a plan on what trails we want one way, then do as much of the leg work as possible to make it that way. Get with the friends of C.C. and have the signs made and donated them directly to Richard and so on.....

Its just the way it is , and you have to play the game by their rules! Believe me its painfully brutal most of the time... Nothing ever just gets done! That is why the volunteer work is so important and sought after by Richard. We snagged the Bronco off of sidewinder without permission.... The reason it set up there for 7 years is because of the red tape and eco bs to get it out. There was several times that guys were hooked on to it but shut down due to low humidity and fire danger. No track vehicles could be used. The fire dept had to be on stand by etc. We brought in a 4x4 back hoe on rubber tires on a very humid day and stole it out of the park. It took us one week to plan and execute. Of course we found out about the red tape issues after the fact, we thought we were just doing GOOD thing.... NOOOOOOOOO! LOL

Sorry Bob, what was the question again? Or was there one? LOL

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As far as making some trails ONE WAY, I heard this discussion years ago at one of the National Forest Meetings.

First, it's very difficult to enforce.

Second, there was some discussion about if a trail is made one way and people don't abide by the rules and there's a head-on collision on the trail, somehow it opens them up for liability in a lawsuit more than if it is not designated as one way. Perhaps an attorney would know why this may be, I don't get it.

I don't think the trails will be made one way, but we can bring it up to Richard again.

Metal Twister made some excellent points on how long it takes to get things done.

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As far as making some trails ONE WAY, I heard this discussion years ago at one of the National Forest Meetings.

First, it's very difficult to enforce.

That would be the main problem. If people thought that everybody rode in the same direction, they might relax and not be expecting somebody who was lost or ignorant or inconsiderate or had problems with their bike or the trail or something and decided to turn around and head back the "wrong" way. I know that I would never feel safe that there would never be somebody coming from the wrong direction on a "one way" trail. ;)

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As far as making some trails ONE WAY, I heard this discussion years ago at one of the National Forest Meetings.

First, it's very difficult to enforce.

That would be the main problem. If people thought that everybody rode in the same direction, they might relax and not be expecting somebody who was lost or ignorant or inconsiderate or had problems with their bike or the trail or something and decided to turn around and head back the "wrong" way. I know that I would never feel safe that there would never be somebody coming from the wrong direction on a "one way" trail. ;)

Excellent point, Mimi !

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As far as making some trails ONE WAY, I heard this discussion years ago at one of the National Forest Meetings.

First, it's very difficult to enforce.

That would be the main problem. If people thought that everybody rode in the same direction, they might relax and not be expecting somebody who was lost or ignorant or inconsiderate or had problems with their bike or the trail or something and decided to turn around and head back the "wrong" way. I know that I would never feel safe that there would never be somebody coming from the wrong direction on a "one way" trail. ;)

Excellent point, Mimi !

Plus... CC is already a very small riding area and by making trails one-way, you're effectively cutting the number of possible trails in half (I think we all agree that riding a trail in the opposite direction makes it a completely different challenge)...

We need MORE trails, not LESS..

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Expanding the one-way discussion. If anyone has been to Gorman where there are one-way trails, it's a problem. 99% of the riders pay attention to the signs. The main feeder trail, Backbone, is one-way along with a few black diamond trails off of Backbone. They are clearly marked and also marked at intervals throughout the trail. Still, never fails, you'll have someone coming the wrong way. It weeds out most wrong way riders but you still have to ride it as if it were a two-way trail.

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Good stuff MT! Thank you for the updates and for everything you are doing. These are suppose to be our public lands to use and enjoy. Can somebody please tell me why all the taxes we already pay are not enough to maintain and keep these places open? I would like to see every bureaucrat that pulls a paycheck fired and replaced with volunteers like yourselves that really care. The savings from not paying their salaries would provide a huge surplus of cash to take care of and upgrade everything (with the right people in charge). Volunteers consistently do a much better job in their spare time than these idiots can do as a full time job . . . WTF?

Job Performance Rating= EPIC FAIL :blink::huh::angry:

As far as the one way trail thing, I agree that we need more trails and not less, but a one-way trail or two in the mix would be a great thing. Unfortunately I guess it can never really work as stated above. There's always that one person to screw things up. That said, most of the times I've come close to a serious mishap has been when meeting riders from the opposite direction that were traveling way too fast.

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Good stuff MT! Thank you for the updates and for everything you are doing. These are suppose to be our public lands to use and enjoy. Can somebody please tell me why all the taxes we already pay are not enough to maintain and keep these places open?

I don't know what the numbers are but I would bet A LOT of the money goes to defending against and complying with law suits filed by the enviro radical groups against the agencies that are the stewards of our public lands. You know how nothing can be done without them flying off the handle and sueing for anything and everything. I believe its part of their plan to tie things up in litigation, drain the agencies financial resources and generally do everything they can to close down all public lands from human use.

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Richard has new remote sensors that will count traffic. They will give us a better feel for just how much traffic each trail in the park gets. These things are so sensitive that it can tell if its a quad, bike, rhino sized ATV or a full sized rig passing. As far as Pyro's comment on the full time bureaucrat ... While they are not bureaucrats, I can honestly say that the rangers that operate and maintain both Wildamar and and C.C. are golden! These guys do allot more behind the scenes than most will ever know or see. Everything from law enforcement to planting signs. The crews that runs the So Cal OHV areas are stand up guys that know exactly how to play the game. As long as Richard and his guys and gals are on our team, we will win. That guy puts in more than 110% for us... Its just not seen. In fact if given the chance, stop and thank him for all that he is doing. It's for a pay check sure, but with Richard its about saving a little chunk of ground for us to play on. One Cool Cat that Richard Tull...

Now the pencil pushers in D.C., I'm not so sure about... lol

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the rangers that operate and maintain both Wildamar and and C.C. are golden!

Now the pencil pushers in D.C., I'm not so sure about... lol

Good point man, no disrespect intended. Sorry, I was on a rant.

Many many thanks to those folks that are doing a great job for us out there.

110% effort is more than enough for me! Please keep up the good work and god bless you all.

I guess it's the pencil pushers then . . The ones that never go out and experience the outdoors. They have nothing to loose except the jobs we have provided them, where they are found sitting on their lazy butts 40 hours a week searching craigslist for a new treadmill that will never get used and updating their facebook status. :angry:

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the rangers that operate and maintain both Wildamar and and C.C. are golden!

Now the pencil pushers in D.C., I'm not so sure about... lol

I guess it's the pencil pushers then . . The ones that never go out and experience the outdoors. They have nothing to loose except the jobs we have provided them, where they are found sitting on their lazy butts 40 hours a week searching craigslist for a new treadmill that will never get used and updating their facebook status. :angry:

There ya go... Back on the right track. LOL

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I e-mailed Richard Tull and here was part of his response.........

I am also looking for someone to take the lead on an effort to reopen trail 7, the only actual single track currently on the system. It really needs help and I think getting users involved with putting it back to ride-able condition would be a good thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll take the lead on this if we have enough people who will help.

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I e-mailed Richard Tull and here was part of his response.........

I am also looking for someone to take the lead on an effort to reopen trail 7, the only actual single track currently on the system. It really needs help and I think getting users involved with putting it back to ride-able condition would be a good thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll take the lead on this if we have enough people who will help.

Ive have an ultra full plate right now, but Ill make the time... let me know where and when?

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I posted Richard Tulls response to my e-mail questions in the Members Only Forum under Trails & Destinations......more Corral Canyon Info.

Didn't want his entire response posted for the public to see, even though it's probably OK, but since it was a personal response I wanted to keep it in the MO Forum.

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I e-mailed Richard Tull and here was part of his response.........

I am also looking for someone to take the lead on an effort to reopen trail 7, the only actual single track currently on the system. It really needs help and I think getting users involved with putting it back to ride-able condition would be a good thing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll take the lead on this if we have enough people who will help.

I'm in!!!

Trail 7 is a fun little trail. I hadn't ridden it until Mickey and I took off on our unofficial quest to GPS map all the trails in the OHV area (Thread linked here). It won't take too much work actually. A little brush cutting (just a little - gotta keep in tight for the enjoyment factor) and there are a few eroded spots (see the pictures in the above linked thread) that could use a little attention.

I'd say we don't do too much and leave it as one of the more challenging trails in the area... After "paving" Kernana North and Spur Meadow, and our wonderful mountain biking friends "grooming" our adopted portion of Kernan, we need to keep a few real black diamond trails...

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I'd say we don't do too much and leave it as one of the more challenging trails in the area... After "paving" Kiernan North and Spur Meadow, and our wonderful mountain biking friends "grooming" our adopted portion of Kernan, we need to keep a few real black diamond trails...

I agree, I will mention to Richard, we can't keep grooming some of the better trails, otherwise they won't be challenging !

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I'd say we don't do too much and leave it as one of the more challenging trails in the area... After "paving" Kiernan North and Spur Meadow, and our wonderful mountain biking friends "grooming" our adopted portion of Kernan, we need to keep a few real black diamond trails...

I agree, I will mention to Richard, we can't keep grooming some of the better trails, otherwise they won't be challenging !

LOL There has been pressure on Richard to improve the connector to bronco peak. Its too rough and access is impossible, some say.... If that happen he will have a serious mutiny on his hands by the whole 4x4 off road community. Richard has the right idea... leave it alone!

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Now the pencil pushers in D.C., I'm not so sure about... lol

I guess it's the pencil pushers then . . The ones that never go out and experience the outdoors. They have nothing to loose except the jobs we have provided them, where they are found sitting on their lazy butts 40 hours a week searching craigslist for a new treadmill that will never get used and updating their facebook status. ;)

:)

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Here's some video from the North County ORV area this weekend.

Most Jeepers won't want the trails "improved" - keeps them from having fun like this :)

Be a while before I'm doing that with my Rubi . . . ;)

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Been waiting for a new trail for a long time. When build time comes count me in. I'm thankful to MT for having the perseverance to hang in there, good work.

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Just got back from riding corral, and if they put the rain diverters on the new trail like they have on the others it will be just another suckey trail. Kearnen trail is ruined. Yea yea I know it helps with erosion but it seems like over kill, every trail we road today now has LARGE WHOOPS, at least for me it totaly takes away any sence of rhythm that a natural trail would have,might as well go ride a man made track.

my .02

thanks OZ

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Just got back from riding corral, and if they put the rain diverters on the new trail like they have on the others it will be just another suckey trail. Kearnen trail is ruined. Yea yea I know it helps with erosion but it seems like over kill, every trail we road today now has LARGE WHOOPS, at least for me it totaly takes away any sence of rhythm that a natural trail would have,might as well go ride a man made track.

my .02

thanks OZ

I'll agree with you about the water bars.............unfortunately, it's just part of the legal system /BS the land managers must go through.......you can thank your friendly Environmental Groups for the strict regulations for water bars and erosion control.

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I'll have to ask rich where there get there standards, something like the city uses? "the green book" the standard drawings book. Do they have to be 3-4 feet tall.

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I'll have to ask rich where there get there standards, something like the city uses? "the green book" the standard drawings book. Do they have to be 3-4 feet tall.

I have a better suggestion... if they HAVE to put them in anyway, why not put them in as a table top, or short double? That way, you can jump it, and have a landing... right now, if you do a decent jump (something I'm incapable of), you end up landing 5 feet below where you started... it's even worse going uphill...

Tell Rich that I decided a 12 foot long table top would be best

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