property line dispute

[ADV Bum 205]

Just wondering if any of you have had any dealings with a property line dispute. I had my property surveyed, and my neighbors retaining wall he built is almost 3' on my property. This is kind of a big deal. The difference between getting boat, toy box into my back yard or not.

[DigDug 0]

Just wondering if any of you have had any dealings with a property line dispute. I had my property surveyed, and my neighbors retaining wall he built is almost 3' on my property. This is kind of a big deal. The difference between getting boat, toy box into my back yard or not.

It looks like he gave you a nice retaining wall! :help:

Have you talked with your neighbor about it? It probably was an innocent mistake with him building it on what he thought was his property. 3 ft is a big deal...

[ADV Bum 205]

Before I had it officially surveyed I had told him I thought it was on my property. He got pissed off! I am hoping when he sees how far off it is he can understand why I want it moved. He has turned the property into a rental so doesnt really give a %#&$ about being neighborly any more. Here is part of my problems.

1. If he tells me tuff, can I tear it down and recoup my cost.

2. When I tear it down it needs to be built (by code) entirely on his property. Thus I cannot replace.

3. So do I tear it down and built a fence, then he would be forced to build a retaining wall on his side.

Best solution is that he just mans up to his mistake and we split the cost of building a new one. One can dream, right!

[ozzy 0]

how long ago did he build the wall ?

[ADV Bum 205]

how long ago did he build the wall ?

It was before I bought the place. 20 years?

[bikeslut 1]

I think I know where Ozzy is going with this... if the wall has been there for "a while", there may be some sort of law allowing him to keep it there... I forget the name of the law...

[sandiegoland 0]

Just wondering if any of you have had any dealings with a property line dispute. I had my property surveyed, and my neighbors retaining wall he built is almost 3' on my property. This is kind of a big deal. The difference between getting boat, toy box into my back yard or not.

I've never had direct dealings, but I've endured tid-bits of co-workers problems over the years who worked it out without too much grief.

How easy it is depends on the length of time ago the wall was built and the particular neighbor. They were/are wrong to have built it on your titled property, but if they resist admitting fault or claim a de facto easement then it can be a protracted battle. Some of this may fall under tolerable encroachment if the wall was of some benefit to you and you still have some qualified use of the property.

Usually with not too much at stake, people know you aren't going to spend money on a lawyer to resolve it. In the cases I knew there was building to be done and that motivated the parties to move to a solution.

How recent, and how permanent is the wall (block stack or footed concrete)?

Which yard is higher?

[sandiegoland 0]

Before I had it officially surveyed I had told him I thought it was on my property. He got pissed off!

Funny. He's trying to intimidate the Bum.

People should know that is futile...

[ADV Bum 205]

He put in the wall to get rid of the slope between the yards. He then back filled so he could have a flat lot. His lot is higher by 3'. It is a block stack retaining wall. The wall does nothing for me. All about him. I have been looking into the laws, and just because something has been there does not make it legal. There are other measures that must be met.

[DigDug 0]

I've never experienced this personally, but I would think that if he didn't agree, the only recourse would be the courts (Oh no!!! not the 's' word). What do you think the total cost would be? If it's less than $7500, you could sue him in small claims court. I do have some experience with California small claims court (I won a pretty good settlement against my former landlord). There is an attorney at the Vista courthouse that's a "small claims adviser" that gives free legal advice when it comes to small claims actions. You might want to go in there and discuss your options before you proceed.

This is how I think it would work (and this is only because I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night):

You present him with the evidence (survey) and ask him to fix the problem.

If he doesn't, you hire someone to fix the problem (so that you aren't caught up with how much to charge for your own labor) and present him with the bill.

If he doesn't pay then, you sue him since you asked twice and he didn't agree.

If you win the suit, then you have to try and collect the judgment (that can be pretty interesting in and of itself - although you know he owns that property and you could put a lien on it).

Again, that's just my opinion. I would think that the work would be less than $7500 so it would fall under small claims - saving you attorney fees, etc. Since you're estimating that it would be a small claims case I would think the small claims adviser would give you free legal advice.

I hope it all works out!

[sandiegoland 0]

...just because something has been there does not make it legal. There are other measures that must be met.

On titled property that is correct... except that time will harden the resistance of the other party to cave-in to a friendly request.

I just mention time because, legal or not, it's a factor that can make things more difficult.

If he's not using the pad above anymore, sounds like he should be willing to let you tear it out and re-slope it. That sounds reasonable to me.

[ADV Bum 205]

Doug that is what I was thinking. But the problems being that I cannot build a retaining wall legally to take its place. I cannot build on HIS property. So I would then build a fence. I would rather play nice and split the cost up front to avoid the whole court issue later. I win, he wins. Yeah!

[DigDug 0]

Doug that is what I was thinking. But the problems being that I cannot build a retaining wall legally to take its place. I cannot build on HIS property. So I would then build a fence. I would rather play nice and split the cost up front to avoid the whole court issue later. I win, he wins. Yeah!

If you're willing to split the cost to make up for his mistake, that's awesome (I wish I had a neighbor like you!).

Hopefully if you offer that he'll jump on it. I'd still go talk to the small claims adviser. Heck, depending on how big a job it is, how much it'll cost, it might even be worth it to spend a hundred or so (I have no idea how much a consult would cost) and talk to a real estate attorney...

[ADV Bum 205]

If you're willing to split the cost to make up for his mistake, that's awesome (I wish I had a neighbor like you!).

I wish he had the same appreciation. He used to be nice until he got remarried.

[ADV Bum 205]

Amazing he just came by. I some him through the office window and went out to talk to him. He is not happy. He did not want to talk about anything. He does not believe the survey. His reply was "so you really want to tear down the wall". Yep! He tried to scare me with " now I will have to survey my property".

[DigDug 0]

Amazing he just came by. I some him through the office window and went out to talk to him. He is not happy. He did not want to talk abut anything. He does not believe the survey. His reply was "so you really want to tear down the wall". Yep! He tried to scare me with " no I will have to survey my property".

That's probably a good idea - that way he's not questioning your surveyor. Maybe between his survey and your offer to split the cost of HIS mistake, he'll go for it...

Did he have a survey done before the construction? I probably would have if it were construction that close to the boundary line...

You can always hope for the best , right?

[ADV Bum 205]

No he did not have a survey done when he built the wall. The people before me where loaded with finacial, addiction, and criminal problems. They did not care what happened as long as they did not have to pay for it! I hope he gets his own survey. He would then see he is wrong. It is funny how he minimized the distance. Quote " All that for a foot!" I will take pictures with a tape.

[sandiegoland 0]

It is funny how he minimized the distance. Quote " All that for a foot?!"

By that logic, he should'nt mind if you move it 4 feet then!

[bikeslut 1]

I know where I'd put a foot

[Strega 0]

These kinda disputes suck, best of luck!

[Kevin 0]

No he did not have a survey done when he built the wall. The people before me where loaded with finacial, addiction, and criminal problems. They did not care what happened as long as they did not have to pay for it! I hope he gets his own survey. He would then see he is wrong. It is funny how he minimized the distance. Quote " All that for a foot!" I will take pictures with a tape.

Call the city. He would have been required to get a permit for this wall. This permit would confirm that it was built in the correct location and built correctly(to code). Most likely there is not a permit because of its location. In this case, the city would require the wall to be taken down by the owner of the wall. Good luck!

[paulmbowers 236]

No he did not have a survey done when he built the wall. The people before me where loaded with finacial, addiction, and criminal problems. They did not care what happened as long as they did not have to pay for it! I hope he gets his own survey. He would then see he is wrong. It is funny how he minimized the distance. Quote " All that for a foot!" I will take pictures with a tape.

Call the city. He would have been required to get a permit for this wall. This permit would confirm that it was built in the correct location and built correctly(to code). Most likely there is not a permit because of its location. In this case, the city would require the wall to be taken down by the owner of the wall. Good luck!

That's the best suggestion so far.

The concept for which folks are grasping is Adverse Possession. After a LONG period, if the property owner knows and approves of the use of his/her property (like a wall on the property, and the property owner says, essentially: Oh, that's ok with me) then eventually that part of the property will become the "encroacher's" property.

But it's rare, and there are many hoops through which one must jump.

fn

[ADV Bum 205]

One of the main problems with adverse possession is the tax issue. One must show that they have paid the property taxes on the property in question. Without modified plot map and deed, this does not happen. Adverse possession is on the books to discourage people from abandoning buildings and land.

[racer270 0]

No he did not have a survey done when he built the wall. The people before me where loaded with finacial, addiction, and criminal problems. They did not care what happened as long as they did not have to pay for it! I hope he gets his own survey. He would then see he is wrong. It is funny how he minimized the distance. Quote " All that for a foot!" I will take pictures with a tape.

Call the city. He would have been required to get a permit for this wall. This permit would confirm that it was built in the correct location and built correctly(to code). Most likely there is not a permit because of its location. In this case, the city would require the wall to be taken down by the owner of the wall. Good luck!

That's the best suggestion so far.

The concept for which folks are grasping is Adverse Possession. After a LONG period, if the property owner knows and approves of the use of his/her property (like a wall on the property, and the property owner says, essentially: Oh, that's ok with me) then eventually that part of the property will become the "encroacher's" property.

But it's rare, and there are many hoops through which one must jump.

fn

my 2 cents...

if the wall is less then 32" high he does not need a permit. it is called "flat work"..!

the Adverse Possession law, is the big problem..!

he has to meet 3 rules of law.

1)if he has used the land for more then 5 years with out interruption.

2) he would have too have payed TAXES on the land.

3) his actions would have to be detrimental to your title..

if you go to court and he has done all of the three things above , he can "claim the property" as his.

and if he has not , you can tare down the wall...!!!

and take him to court to recoup all your money + attorney fees.

but this will not be cheep , unless you know a attorney...!!!

ps. i have a friend that is fighting this same thing..!

but in his case the guy went and changed the boundary line and recorded it and he was paying the taxes on the extra land,for the last 4 years.

he was after a easement right to a privet road , so he could gain access too the rear of his property so he could build 3 houses on a peace of land in El Cajon.

[ADV Bum 205]

one other thing they must do is to have marked the true property line while they occupy the property, showing thier hostile intent. I am not to worried about the adverse possession. Their has not been a survey on this street for many, many years. The fence in the back is also out of place. The surveyor made the comment on the can of worms being opened. He statement was "it is your wall, you can tear it down." Not that he is a lawyer, but does this for a living. I just know that if the situation was reversed their would be hell to pay.