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Bagstr

KTM Manufacturing in China / India

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http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/cfmoto-and-ktm-enter-new-joint-venture.1289988/

http://www.cyclenews.com/2018/04/article/ktm-cfmoto-west-meets-east/

Description of KTM overseas manufactured products coming to the world.  Yes, the 390 is already here, copy.  The new 790 will only be manufactured in China after 2020. OK, would I purchase a "China KTM"  at a premium over a Thailand Yamaha??   Deep in my consciousness I have a belief that an Austrian product is of higher value that a Chinese product.  This is coming from a guy who told himself that Japanese quality was inferior to American sedans in the '80s.  It comes down to quality of the manufacturing equipment and the culture and training of the workforce.  In my opinion, KTM is messing with the brand that got them to the #1 moto manufacturer in Europe. I know, I know Honda and Yamaha produce millions around the world. For the aspiring third world population, that works great. KTM could have remained a boutique manufacturer; the corporate model dictates otherwise.

All this is just more proof that North America is diminishing in importance to the World Economy.  Let's hope the off-road  production remains in Europe.  Your opinion may differ

   Bagstr - The Elitist 

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If you spend any time pouring over a 390, you can tell it is at a different quality standard in materials/parts than a European KTM.  However, to get to their price point of $4,999.00, you have to make some compromises along the way in materials/labor.  If you need a cheap entry level bike which apparently performs fairly well based on what I have read, you take the good with the bad.

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Made in China doesn't have to mean that the product is crap.  Just as mentioned above, I recall when people said made in Japan meant it was junk.  Now it's a sign of quality.   It all depends on the manufacturers standards and quality control measures.

 

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The company I retired from based their advanced manufacturing in the Netherlands where the costs are among the highest in the world. As a product would become mature they would move the mfg to the Czech Republic where everything is dirt cheap (comparatively). At first there were some issues but once they figured it out the products were as good if not better than their NL counterparts. The Dutch of course would always push that theirs was better but after working on them both extensively I found the Czech stuff to be better off the factory floor. Western Europe is rapidly pricing themselves out of the market.

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Gang,

  One wonders if the Czechs could develop the advanced product if it was not given to them as an accomplished fact. ^_^   IMO, the West gives away their knowledge base in order to make next quarters profit target. ( "China" ) After you teach your competitors your government supported technologies, you proceed to sell out the labor base.  As a CEO or stock holder, what do you care; not your problem.

  Subtract the Intellectual knowledge produced by the best university system in the word from what is given away by the corporations and what do you have?  Again, Take it to the Bank, let the next generation deal with it. Our balance sheets are missing a few lines under Liabilities. 

  Getting back to KTM. Mmm, could KTM afford to develop the 790 technology without planning to offshore production?  Maybe not to sell in India or China, but they could in the west. 

   A Laborer

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Yes, and...

Were American consumers willing to pay more for a higher quality product, outsourcing would be far less popular.

But, by and large, we're not. We demand lower prices on goods (and services) and we don't really care (or are unable to understand) about the true costs.

We vote with our pocketbooks every time.

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Quote of the thread: "In my opinion, KTM is messing with the brand that got them to the #1 moto manufacturer in Europe." Bags, 2018

 

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Boo on KTM.

If I have a choice, I don't buy stuff made in China, but often you don't have a choice.

I would definitely NOT buy a KTM manufactured in China, don't care how good it is. I'd find me a different bike.

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Agree with Randy, I have no motivation to spend money on a KTM produced in China. The is a niche market targeted at individuals with above average wealth and discretionary income. KTM is already one of the most expensive brands in this market, which is proof enough that their consumers are willing to pay the price for an above average product. History is littered with failed companys that made changes like this, loosing sight of their business model, to reduce costs.

 

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Just now, Bagstr said:

            Bring Back the CB500-4    ;)

They're very rare.

One usually has to travel as far as Escondido to find them.

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50 minutes ago, KTMrad said:

 

I would definitely NOT buy a KTM manufactured in China, don't care how good it is. I'd find me a different bike.

Ok, would you buy a bike that has a Chinese-made ECM? Or instrumentation? Carbs? Fuel injector? Tires made in Taiwan?

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4 minutes ago, paulmbowers said:

Ok, would you buy a bike that has a Chinese-made ECM? Or instrumentation? Carbs? Fuel injector? Tires made in Taiwan?

Trick question...don't fall for it.

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1 hour ago, paulmbowers said:

Ok, would you buy a bike that has a Chinese-made ECM? Or instrumentation? Carbs? Fuel injector? Tires made in Taiwan?

 

Like I said, you can't get away from it and have no choice with some stuff, but I won't by a bike that is entirely made in China....I have A CHOICE.

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G

Just now, KTMrad said:

 

Like I said, you can't get away from it and have no choice with some stuff, but I won't by a bike that is entirely made in China....I have A CHOICE.

Got it, understood. 

What percentage of the bike can can be made in China and still be acceptable?

Are certain critical parts- like the ECU- given greater weight in that calculation?

Is it only China we’re avoiding?

Personally, I don’t care where it’s made- as a world, we’re way beyond protectionism- the horse left that barn with semiconductors. 

I care about quality, which can come from any country or culture. 

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X2 Paul I tried that whole made in America thing but about 4 years ago had to give up especially with tools and electronics i use daily. All about quality and warranty now 

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   Yes, all good points with good intent.  I will worry about my job, not so much yours. When we follow good quality, hopefully those making the product will share in the profits.  The KTM brand has been an opportunity to support a good product. 

  

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I won't debate this, have my own opinion for many reasons.

I worked doing construction defect investigations for years and saw too much bad material come from China.

I will pay more for stuff made elsewhere whenever I can, especially tools and other things Made in the USA to support our workers.

I also choose to pay a little more to support local businesses when I can, rather than shopping online "just because it's more convenient", and I prefer interaction with people over a computer.

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15 hours ago, paulmbowers said:

G

Got it, understood. 

What percentage of the bike can can be made in China and still be acceptable?

Are certain critical parts- like the ECU- given greater weight in that calculation?

Is it only China we’re avoiding?

Personally, I don’t care where it’s made- as a world, we’re way beyond protectionism- the horse left that barn with semiconductors. 

I care about quality, which can come from any country or culture. 

Here Here!!! "I didn't get a harrumph from that man!"

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USA design and manufacturing lost my undying allegiance when the unions in Detroit were telling us how great the Vega and the Pinto and the Apollo were while cars like the Corolla, the 2002 and the Civic were just rolling in. 

Here!

Buy these unbelievably inferior USA made products because you’re a patriot. 

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8 minutes ago, paulmbowers said:

USA design and manufacturing lost my undying allegiance when the unions in Detroit were telling us how great the Vega and the Pinto and the Apollo were while cars like the Corolla, the 2002 and the Civic were just rolling in. 

Here!

Buy these unbelievably inferior USA made products because you’re a patriot. 

  Back in the mid seventies, while I was in high school, I delivered prescriptions for a pharmacy after school. I was driving a Ford Courier pickup truck. When I checked the oil, I always wondered why there was a label placed in the engine compartment that read "This vehicle is manufactured by the Mazda corporation"...

Harrumph! 

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My Ford F150 had over 430,000 miles on it with no major problems....it wasn't a Pinto or Vega 

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Quality can be had from China, but it takes an intense amount of quality control and constant monitoring. In some cases, so much, that it is cost prohibitive to manufacture there. That is, if the company cares. The corruption and dishonesty in Chinese manufacturing is unbelievable. They will put forth an amazing effort to pull the wool over their customers eyes. We have had products made in China. They would send us a run of first articles. These were always absolutely perfect. Then we would get into production. A whole different story. Hardware, parts, components that we specified were swapped out for cheap Chinese knockoffs. It is hard to detect this when you are in production. Can't do the in depth inspection and testing that you can when accepting first articles. These Chinese were amazing. They would make exact copies of components with illeagal trademarks and logos on them. The only way we would find out they were fakes was when they caught fire. Most mobile phones are made in China, and the inspection and quality control are extreme so they can get a good yield.

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