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PastaPilot

Honda Massively Expands the CRF Product Line

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Just now, dirt dame said:

 improved geometry and center of gravity, make the new bike seem like a little potato chip by comparison.:wub:

Trail feel. The most important and hardest measurement to quantify. 

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57 minutes ago, PastaPilot said:

 

My post from earlier in the thread is copied above. 

 

Listing unspecified dry weights on their website and promotional materials is a marketing tactic. KTM and the other manufacturers that do it sell a significant number of bikes because buyers think their new bike is 20+ pounds lighter than the Jspanese bike they rode for years. The reality is not that impressive. 

I imagine the real weight of the CRF will be within a few pounds of their claim of 289. That's a big number and nothing to brag about. 

Also you need to understand the logic of Japanese manufacturing. They pride themselves and on a global scale are expected to have the highest quality and longevity of their products. Bikeslut used to share a saying from the mt bike world. Strong, light, cheap; you can only have two. 

There is a thread on thumpertalk detailing a weight loss project of a WR450F that was quite interesting. The member owned a rainbow of bikes but was surprised at the WRs engineering. Where his KTM would have a bolt or tab or nothing, Yamaha had two bolts and a bracket. It's not light or even cheap and may not be necessary but it is strong. Engineered to last. Anyway, their was a lot of money into that project, titanium exhaust and such, but also cutting out or removing parts got that WR down to around 240 pounds wet. About a 25 pound weight reduction. 

My YZ started life at 245# wet, but with the bigger tank, tires, mousses, radiators, hand and frame guards, lights, etc is now at 260-265 pounds. Could be less but I didn't buy the lightest parts available. 

240# is the wet weight with no fuel. 235.5 is the KTM claimed dry weight. Even if it's understated by 10 lbs it's still way lighter than the CRFL could ever hope to be. I've given up hope that the Japanese will ever build a serious 4 stroke trail bike.There will be a segment of the riding population who will prefer the CRF in spite of the weight.  I've owned a ton of Japanese bikes so I am very familiar with their build philosophy. That said the CRF line has not been without it's problems. Honda seems to want to keep promoting legendary reliability when simply put IMO they are just on par with their competitors in recent years. They aren't XR's which in their day were exceptionally tough bikes. Yes we all add accessories that contribute additional weight but when the base bike starts out overweight it only goes up from there. So will a ready to ride fully armored CRF with a 3 gal tank be 300 - 305#??? 

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Randy,

No one of any merit hits the trail with 3 gallons of fuel, tools, water and tubes. Don't even talk about carrying a radio!

By the way, how did the second Utah / Nevada trip work out?  You can do a Jeep / Razr report.

  Dave

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Moto geekage in full effect on this thread haha.

Great to read all these valid points. When choosing a motorcycle its all about the compromises it seems.:rolleyes:

The last say 20 years or so bike weight has been pretty stagnant, 20  lbs of manufacturing and engineering refinement maybe. There is only so much you can do with "Affordable Materials". 

My guess is the 450L would make a great modern (fuel injected, e-start) light adv platform. The Ti intake valves have me worried though.

I read that the crf450L will have 25hp stock, that is ridiculously choked out, terd status. I would expect 40hp with a respectable max rpm. Reminds me of the xr650r in California trim, basically didn't even run right. Now, what's it going to take to get the 450L running "Correctly", a non cat muffler, cut open the air box and an ecu tune? Still many unknowns 

 

From what I've read the CRF450L seems like it is engineered more closely to a classic duel sport/ enduro durability specification rather than a race-ready plated dirt bike. My biggest question is service intervals/ rebuilds. I've witnessed two ktms have engine failures in BFN, I am very apprehensive to buy one because of it. In contrast, my xr400r went 40,000 miles before it started using oil. Will the 450L come close? Those Ti valves probably won't last that long, unfortunately, 20k maybe?

 

Is anybody familiar with  Lyndon Poskitt's bike and touring spec service intervals? seems like a great CURRENT ktm durability case study. That guy is doing the miles! 

 

 

Currently, if I had $12,000 to spend on a moto my fantasy bike is the 701enduro, It is heavy 344 lbs fueled up. Hell of a lot lighter and nimble than the 1190 or gs though haha

 

How about a list Of comparable bikes, weight, power, service intervals, price?

 

So many awesome bikes!

 

-wr250r

-drz400

-crf450L

-xr650L

-klr650

-exc350

-exc450

-exc500

-690 enduro r

-701 enduro

-350rrs

-390rrs

-430rrs

-500rrs

Thinking about all this reminds me to appreciate my old "light" adv bike at 325 lbs wet 50hp 40ft/ lb ready to go. 250mile range, 80mph highway, single track capable. 30-minute valve adjustments. Someday it will wear out the piston and rings so I can justify bumping up displacement and compression, in the meantime... 15 minute oil changes of Rotella 15-40 from Walmart. No magic button though, SHITE, don't drop in in the wrong spot! Will one of the above bikes be in my future, hope so?

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13 hours ago, Bagstr said:

Randy,

No one of any merit hits the trail with 3 gallons of fuel, tools, water and tubes. Don't even talk about carrying a radio!

By the way, how did the second Utah / Nevada trip work out?  You can do a Jeep / Razr report.

  Dave

Thread derail - Utah was awesome. 7 days riding all in the SXS this trip. Kinda busy right now but if I can get my head above water I'll try to bang out a RR. Two of the areas I went to - Tropic Reservoir and the Kaibab Plateau would be great dual sport rides. - Hijack over.

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16 hours ago, Bagstr said:

http://www.earlyyearsofmx.com/YAMDT1.html

Word on the street is Yamaha is looking at a "New Concept".     :o

-Yes, please! 

"the T7 is a vision of the ideal adventure machine, and is playing a major role in the development of Yamaha’s next generation adventure models."

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/adventure-touring/pages/yamaha-t7-concept

 

-RR Randy!

 

 

2019-honda-crf450l-engine-review-specs-dual-sport-motorcycle-bike-crf-450-l-450l-6.jpg

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Just a quick update with some info in the HP numbers that are floating the internets.

Quote

We asked Honda for a publishable HP number for the 450L and they said it was in the 40s. For dirt bikes, Honda (all OEM’s actually) don’t give out HP numbers since there are so many variables in dyno’ing the bikes. Also, Honda added that there is only a 4 hp difference between the X and L 

 

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Honda just built what is the most logical business solution to joining the sport DS plate market which has been exploited by the EU brands. they are very savvy.....give me one of these and within a week I will shave @ 20 lbs off the thing and uncork the system. Sick bird version with a plate. Honda quality.

BTW this will never happen from me. but they just created an entire aftermarket production/ web/ t talk category and will bring out all the intertube "experts" on how to properly set up your street legal CRF. Basically you get a plated overweight CRF450X....can go back and forth talking and talking about it being overweight   ...so shite----strip it down to CRF450X spec and you have a new CRF450X with a legit plate. end of the day for Honda fans. Finally the bean counters looked at what KTM has done and realized it is worth doing.

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Saw the original 24HP claim and thought nope. No way that would work. But now seeing it’s within 4hp of the X (which is easily just the difference in exhaust and tuning), it’s starting to look enticing. Weight doesn’t consern me too much. A good suspension setup has always been more important to me and if you’re so concerned about having to pick up a little extra weight you should stop dropping your bike so much :P . Might be time to trade up the ole 250L this fall and keep at least one red bike in my garage. 

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