Ride report to remember!! Tried my best to save a life, hope he made it

[Mikey777 44]

I would always dial 911 first if you have cell phone coverage as you are given direct access to a dispatcher.  SPOT has to go up to a satellite and then back down and sometimes it takes a while for the message to go out from your unit depending on sat. access.

CalFire is the same as USFS for the most part.  They are not trained in medical response.  The average Joe crew person is a seasonal employee. 

 

[Bp619 104]

good to know mikey and yeah i figured 911 is first call 

[darylhunter 1]

I hope the guy came through OK and good job on you guys trying to help.

I too would try cell phone first but would probably fire off the Spot too if there was any question about the phone working.

I did some coverage analysis for the Spot satellites a few years ago to see how much of a hill would block the signal.

Turns out you can be pretty far down a ravine and still get a signal out within 5-10 minutes.

The bigger issue I think is, is the signal blocked by trees or other stuff, and how is the battery, etc, and you don't get good feedback that the signal was received.

The actual signal from the Spot will be received by the satellite and sent back to the earth in less than a second, so that part of the system isn't the problem.  It is the delays once they get they emergency signal and who to route it to and how they handle it.

There were some horror stories early on a out the emergency responders not speaking GPS or confusing DMS with decimal degrees and so on.

I know when I called the police to report a stolen jeep that I found off road, the police had no clues as how to handle GPS coordinates and ended up having me call the helicopter sheriff to have him help them out.

[Mikey777 44]

A fellow SDAR friend with industry knowledge asked me to add some information to this post...very valuable input. I personally was not aware the CalFire crew persons are now EMT qualified.  They were not back in my day.

 

"Below are some of my personal observations in regards to emergency response in our local backcountry specific to dualsport motorcycle incidents.  Again, these are merely some observations that I have made and are in no way to be construed as official protocol.  Policies, staffing, funding can and will change over time and your unique response may differ from another emergency.  You are ultimately held responsible for yourself as a dualsport rider in the backcountry.  Have a plan, let people know of your plan, have the ability to communicate in case of emergency and always - Be Prepared.  Do not underestimate the weather conditions, your fatigue or your preparedness (both the mechanical function of the bike and your physical fitness/abilities on the bike). 

Cell phone (if you're within service) is your best option as you can communicate with a live person.  You can describe the incident, the patient status, the location, how to access the patient etc.  Also, that dispatcher can then most effectively send and immediate response to your location. 

SPOT is a great tool but remember that GEOS must verify the accuracy/necessity of your SOS call - that is they contact your wife/husband/emergency contact to verify that you're in the area of the "SOS" before then contacting local authorities.  (this prevents Real responses to False button pushes).  SPOT/GEOS would have no clue as to the circumstances of your incident and would not know what you actually need in terms of resources.

Most every response to San Diego County's rural background involves a team effort (often multi-agency).  Dispatchers know how to coordinate rescue efforts and send appropriate apparatus.  Responders on the ground communicate with each other via radio and can request additional backup at any time (ie a request for helicopter..).

 

Regarding USFS:

Depending on your location in our local back country forests and time of day, you may receive US Forest Service firefighters and/or Cal Fire firefighters to a dispatch.  USFS in the Cleveland National Forest and many locations are staffed with skilled wildland firefighters who can cut 1,000s of feet of fire line in a day and can hike heavy hose packs for miles.  They are studs but, they are not required to be highly trained in Emergency Medicine.  They often 9-5 day shifts and have minimal medical equipment on their rigs.  They have 4x4 "brush" firefighting rigs, they can access you on two track jeep fireroad, they can hike to you in singletrack and they can help coordinate the rescue effort but they are typically not able to effect advanced life sustaining medical care 1. because it is out of their scope of practice and 2. they do not have the equipment.  Again, they can be a huge ally in your rescue effort as they know the terrain and can help coordinate helicopter retrieval e tc but they have basic medical capabilities.

 

Regarding Cal Fire:

Depending on location, Cal Fire may respond to your emergency.  Traditionally they have 2 types of rigs that would respond - a 4x4 "brush" rig and a traditional Type 1 "city" looking fire engine.  The brush rigs are more capable off road while the larger engines are fit for pavement duty.  In San Diego, the city engines should always be staffed with Paramedics and advanced emergency response medical equipment.  The brush rigs are typically staffed by EMT's with basic life support equipment.  Every Cal Fire firefighter is at a minimum, EMT qualified and licensed (again, some are Paramedics and CalFire has been recently been expanding ALS/Paramedics in rural San Diego County). 

Depending on the station staffing and available rigs at the station, the paramedics can transfer gear onto a brush rig to respond to your emergency.  In some instances, stations have 4x4 utility pickup trucks and or 4x4 patrol (think 4x4 dually pickup with small water tank) that can be used when responding to a remote location.  During wildfire season, many fire crews are actively fighting fire both inside and outside San Diego County so the stations may have different crews than normal.  CalFire firefighters work 24 hour shifts to help protect/serve their communities best.

 

Regarding "Other" Response:

Other agencies/responders to your potential incident include USFS police, County Sheriff and Border Patrol.   These individuals should be at least CPR certified (likely have basic first aid training as well) and can help in coordination of an emergency response. 

 

Regarding Helicopters:

In terms of helicopter response, San Diego County is traditionally served by Sheriff helicopters and air medical choppers through Reach & Mercy Air.  Depending on your location, a rescue helicopter (Sheriff or potentially military if needed) may be able to assist you by landing nearby, dropping a rescuer to your location etc.  Air medical helicopters are able to land in designated Landing Zones in safe areas.  Typically the patient will need to be hiked, carried, flown or driven to a safe landing zone for the air medical teams to access you.  Helicopter Paramedics in San Diego County typically have a higher scope of practice than ground transport Paramedics.  Some flight crews also have flight nurses with a further advanced skill set.

A recent incident at a popular hiking trail (along a popular dualsport trail):

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/3-Airlifted-From-Three-Sisters-Falls-in-Julian-383563731.html

http://www.10news.com/news/hiker-dies-after-being-rescued-at-three-sisters-falls-061615

[Bp619 104]

Good info and yeah that directly goes wih the reports I've heard from spot users saying that the response times were long because paramedics and police were waiting for forest service personal to get to trail head first and lead the way, good to know the bush fire crews are decently equipped with medical stuff and they are a first response team sometimes makes total sense seeing their vehicles and knowledge of the terrain and land. I have heard of a couple incidents where border patrol had to be called in for their expertise in the area especially that old report where the guys got lost getting from mccain to desert floor and we're MIA

[Dan Diego 40]

I've heard the opposite about SPOT.  But I would like to hear from someone who's actually used the emergency function.

I did assist someone who used a SPOT while in distress in Borrego not too long ago.  He texted me the coordinates as the helo was flying about a mile away.  I guided the EMS responders in telephonically. 

[tvscum 43]

http://www.rvcfire.org/_Layouts/Incident%20Information/IncidentInfoDetail.aspx?2705

[Pokey151 244]

Well after some digging I spoke to one of his family member's.  He is alive and expected to make a full recovery.  There was some internal damage but sounds like it's reversible.

 

Thanks for all the kind words everyone and it does feel good what we did had a positive effect.  I am not sure how or why he was out there but from his shoes, he did not walk out there.  The rest is none of my business.

[Wierdrider 187]

Way to go, that's awesome!??

[Mikey777 44]

Good news.  Did you get any info from his family as to how he ended up in the middle of nowhere with only his pants on and his shoes next to him?

[Pokey151 244]

3 minutes ago, Mikey777 said:

Good news.  Did you get any info from his family as to how he ended up in the middle of nowhere with only his pants on and his shoes next to him?

I did but they were confused.  It sounds like they were getting told a few different stories.  It sounds like foul play.  Like I said, his shoes clearly show he did not wonder out and get "lost"  Not 8 miles in 10" deep silt

[ThumperBob 21]

Great news. Glad he made it ok. Good job. You should feel great for all you did! I hope someone like yourself is around if I am ever in need!! 

[Mikey777 44]

25 minutes ago, Pokey151 said:

I did but they were confused.  It sounds like they were getting told a few different stories.  It sounds like foul play.  Like I said, his shoes clearly show he did not wonder out and get "lost"  Not 8 miles in 10" deep silt

i agree...looks like he was dropped off/kicked out, or maybe wandered off from his friends who were getting high nearby.

[arjayes 1]

Happy (although mysterious) ending after all. I bet you're glad you followed up.

So who pays for the emergency response and helo ride in a case like this, not to mention the hospital stay? The family I assume, either with the help of insurance or not?

[Bp619 104]

Your tax dollars 

[Pokey151 244]

Yeah we joked but with some truth to it that they dropped off a $10,000 water bottle.  Ambulance, 2 fire trucks and a helo deployed