Shifting without using the clutch

[deltadude 0]

I tend to shift a lot without using the clutch when i'm powered up, does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Good, bad, whatever. 

[Oracle 195]

What do you mean by "powered up"? I shift without the clutch frequently. There is nothing wrong with it. But it's necessary to cut the throttle for a millisecond before doing do, thereby eliminating a load on the tranny while shifting. If you are doing it under power, you are making it more difficult on yourself and increasing your chances of damaging your bike.

[dirt dame 559]

Yes, I think a lot of dirt riders will shift without the clutch from time to time.  As the above poster stated, just not under load.  My street bike even has a feature called "quick shift" that allows upshifting without cutting the throttle.  I don't really think it's a very useful feature, but it's there if I ever want to use it.

[Oracle 195]

To add to what Mimi posted, I have "shift assist" on my BMW. Basically, the computer knows when your foot is putting pressure on the shifter and cuts the power for a very brief moment while you shift gears. So it does the same thing as when you physically cut the throttle on a dirt bike between shits. And BTW, I use the shift assist all the time. It is an excellent feature.

[deltadude 0]

Guess I used the wrong phrase, yes I cut the throttle when I shift, what I ment by "powered up" is that I'm moving at a pretty good rate of speed 20+/- mph or more.  It upshifts & downshifts easy and was wondering if it's hard on the gears.  I know that I can drive in my truck without the clutch if I time the engine speed with the trans but with the bike there seems to be no hesitation with matching engine with transmission issues.     This seems like a really dumb question but I'm not sure if I've ever asked it before.

[deltadude 0]

Ok, so it sounds like my bike will be fine with how I'm shifting.  Thanks for all your replies. 

[Mikey777 44]

The quick shift on modern street bikes is really a track/racing feature.  It is meant to save you the second of having to roll of the throttle/engage clutch and eliminates the minor loss of momentum from the same.  The second I spend thinking about it (using the QS v. clutch) wastes the advantage. It takes some getting used to.

 

  

[Bagstr 287]

          When will we get the CVT continuously variable transmission we all "need".  Seems we are halfway there with the auto clutches that are soo popular.  I mean really, even the Formula One cars are auto transmissions.

           

[downs 1]

I test rode an MV Agusta with the "quick shift" feature.  There was a micro switch inline with the shift linkage rod and that would pick up when you were pulling up on the lever and cut the power for a split second.  It took nearly the whole test ride to get used to it.  I tried shifting with the clutch as well and found out if you didn't manually shut the feature off (on that bike anyway) it would still cut the power even though you had already done so making for awkward shifting.  With the feature off it shifted like any normal bike.  Neat feature though and I'm sure if I owned that bike I'd get used to it.

I do it as well with my VSTROM if I'm doing some spirited riding.  No issues as long as you do it properly. 

[deltadude 0]

just noticed that nowhere in any of my posts do I refer to the type of motorcycle I'm riding.  It's a 2014 KTM exc-f 350.  Again thanks for all of the input on this matter.

[Oracle 195]

Josh, the key to using it is the keep the power ON. It took me a while to get used to, but in fact, the feature works best when the bike is pinned. Like I said, I use it all the time. Once used to it, it is a very nice and fun option to have.

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[hobiee 28]

Up shifts hardly ever use it.  Downshifts I use it every time.  Don't know why and not saying it's right or wrong just the way I do it.  I think it's just the fact that downshifts coincide with breaking and a blip of the throttle to keep the revs up.

[Mikey777 44]

BMW and Ducati really have nice QS technology.  They both work really well.

[Ken S 164]

Do it all the time on the Bomb Run desert racing where 1/4 second means eating another pound of dust. 

2014 RMZ450 with 600 plus hours. No trans problems so far. 

[downs 1]

5 hours ago, Oracle said:

Josh, the key to using it is the keep the power ON. It took me a while to get used to, but in fact, the feature works best when the bike is pinned. Like I said, I use it all the time. Once used to it, it is a very nice and fun option to have.

 

It took me nearly the whole ride to get used to it.  But yeah it is a neat option

[Bagstr 287]

ONE quarter second, ya that's what I need.  Been loosing those for years.

            

[CVRick 42]

5 hours ago, deltadude said:

just noticed that nowhere in any of my posts do I refer to the type of motorcycle I'm riding.  It's a 2014 KTM exc-f 350.  Again thanks for all of the input on this matter.

I installed A recluse.  No need to grab the clutch lever. 2014 ktm 500 exc

[deltadude 0]

600 hours, well that says it all I only have 587 more to go.  I like the recluse and have rode my friends 350 exc-f with it and the back brake lever option, but $1000 for the recluse & another $200 for back brake lever kind of puts it out of my reach at this time.  Nice option, guess that's why we work.  

[darylhunter 1]

Back in 1996 at the Suzuki track day that came with the bike, the Suzuki chief mechanic for one of the racing teams told us to do clutchless upshifts and that the transmission would be fine.

Basically, lightly preload the shift lever just before the shift and then give the throttle a quick blip towards the off direction and then back on.

I'd been doing it for years, but it was nice to hear a factory mechanic endorse it.  

What he did say never to do was what he call fan the clutch shifting.  In that case, people leave the throttle wide open and then fan the clutch while moving the shift lever.  The problem is that the rev limiter can't react quickly enough to keep the revs from spiking and doing damage to the engine.

Still do use the clutch when upshifting but mostly between the lower gears when I have a passenger just to help keep the ride smooth.

[deltadude 0]

great information darylhunter, thanks again.

[Suspenders 43]

If there are small bumps like the start of an mx race I used to hold it wide open and apply pressure to the shifter right through the gears. That was Perris old start line and hole shot
more times than not because of that technique.

Now in Vette, small block with rock crusher trans you hold it wide open with solid pressure on the shifter then blip the throttle and BAM! Back end would slide a bit and your off to the next stop light.

Like you stole it!

[deltadude 0]

better check your rear view mirror from time to time for parts laying on the ground.  Gotta say it sounds like fun.