Riding with Radios for Dummies

[Afry 1]

Dummies like me....I don't know much about radios other than what I learned as I got mine and help from friends so if I have any misinformation feel free to flog me in public and I can edit as needed.

Bottom line is you can get a good system for $75.

I wasn't a radio guy but a recent trip to the Sierra's with a group of 10 showed their value. Again this weekend it would have been nice to have a few more riders with communication - it is handy and safer. You can let others know of oncoming traffic, crashes, breakdowns or low fuel situations etc. I do not like idle chatter on the radios - silence is golden - but each group can work that out before they go.

Which radio to buy:

I thought it were going to cost me $300 but got some good advice and found a very effective complete setup for $75 including Ham/GMRS/FRS (I will that explain later) capable radio, helmet kit and floppy antenna. This setup is made in China so if that bothers you there are great radios made in the US for more - you get to choose.

I bought a Baofeng UV-5R - it is light, compact and has GREAT battery life (Lithium-ion). I used it for the last 3 days on our trip without charging and it still had power when I got home - your mileage may vary. You can buy another double capacity battery for about $10. Some say it is hard to program but I don't know any better so it took me about an hour to figure stuff out and get what I needed to use it. I have NO radio experience other than the CD player in my car that is broken. Other con is that it is a 4 watt radio when most other expensive HAM radios are 5 watt. For reference the handheld Motorola radios from Wallyworld, Cabelas etc. are 1/2 watt and cost more.

I was told by the salesperson at a local radio store that you cannot buy a HAM radio that will talk to some one on a FRS radios unless you illegally modify it. If fact just asking him if I could do this pissed him off and he put the radio and accessories away that I was willing to buy for about $300 at this point. His loss. The Boafeng radio can do this out of the box with no modification. Now is a good time to mention that Ham operators do not take kindly to non licensed, illegal or even improper use of the air waves. I understand this and plan on getting my Ham license and respecting the airwaves such that I do not cause others grief (carefully chosen words...). It seems most riders are not licensed

What is Simplex and Duplex?: Easy - Duplex is radio to repeater back to radio for long distance. This requires additional radio programming and protocols - most HAM users do this. They use a repeater (tower on a high spot to relay signals) to use a repeater you will need to program channels on your radio with the correct frequency to transmit and be "heard" by the "tower" and it will send back a communication on another frequency that you knew in advance and programmed to work in your radio. Useful in emergency situations for us - you can also patch into a phone line if you know what and how. I believe you need to pay a small yearly fee to belong to a group to do this with the phone - worth looking into on long trips.

Simplex - This is what almost all riders use - radio to radio. Distance is usually less than a mile but works for most rides. Programming is easy - just put the frequencies in your radio on a channel that you pick. This club seems to use 146.505 which is 2 meter HAM? I think we should use a GMRS 5 watt channel in simplex mode to allow owners of lower tech radios to communicate.

What are HAM, GMRS and FRS radios?:

FRS is a cheap radio or we used to call a walkie talkie you can by anywhere and use without a license - many are also GMRS capable for which you need a license but it is just a matter of sending the government some money - no testing. This allows more frequencies and use of more than 1/2 watts. Simplex only and you may not be able to find a decent helmet set up for one.

GMRS is the next step up and as much money as the Baofeng radio mentioned above without the HAM ability. Midland is popular brand and helmet set ups are available. Mostly used in simplex (rider to rider) but can be used with a GMRS repeater but I don't think there are many of those around? License is required for GMRS as mentioned above but no testing.

HAM is capable of worldwide communication and you need a license to transmit except in an emergency. Test is pretty easy - you can practice online for free and there are inexpensive HAM testing dates/locations around San Diego County on a continuous basis (one day - most pass). Would be good to have in an emergency such as a wild fire or earthquake. HAM radios will work in simplex or duplex and again most riders only use them in simplex.

More really good and helpful information about the Baofeng radio: http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/

Links for radio and accessories:

Radio: Baofeng UV5R in 136-174 and 400-480 transmit and receive, 65-108 FM receive only:

http://www.ebay.com/...ME:L:OC:US:3160

Helmet kit: Half Face Motorcycle Bike Helmet Headset Mic Microphone for Kenwood Radio 2pin

http://www.ebay.com/...ME:L:OC:US:3160

Floppy Antenna:J0125A Female universal Antenna for Kenwood HT TK 3107 378G HYT PUXING QUANSHENG

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1497.l2649

allow up to 3 weeks shipping from China.

[FuzzyNugs 0]

Nice write up. I ordered the radio, programming cable, and headset off of Amazon today with comparable prices and free 2-day shipping if you have their Prime service.

Anything from 136-174 MHz is VHF. The commercial range and what is considered the 2-meter band is from 144-148 and should be usable. Fequencies in the 420-450 are UHF and considered to be the 70-centimeter band. FRS and GMRS channels all share the same small spectrum on 462 and 467 MHz. 2m and 70cm are simple references to the wavelength of the signal.

While the FRS/GMRS radios are nice around the campsite, the propogation of VHF signals will be better than UHF due to the longer wavelength. The VHF signal will carry over mountains and other obstacles better than UHF signals. Additionally as you pointed out, the commercial FRS radios are restricted in power output as well as antenna choice. In my experience, even at 4 or 5 watts on VHF comms, it will be tough to talk outside of 1.5-2 miles.

Terrain and distance are key factors. When in doubt, climb a hill.

[paulmbowers 236]

Dummies like me....I don't know much about radios other than what I learned as I got mine and help from friends so if I have any misinformation feel free to flog me in public and I can edit as needed.

Bottom line is you can get a good system for $75.

I wasn't a radio guy but a recent trip to the Sierra's with a group of 10 showed their value. Again this weekend it would have been nice to have a few more riders with communication - it is handy and safer. You can let others know of oncoming traffic, crashes, breakdowns or low fuel situations etc. I do not like idle chatter on the radios - silence is golden - but each group can work that out before they go.

Which radio to buy:

I thought it were going to cost me $300 but got some good advice and found a very effective complete setup for $75 including Ham/GMRS/FRS (I will that explain later) capable radio, helmet kit and floppy antenna. This setup is made in China so if that bothers you there are great radios made in the US for more - you get to choose.

I bought a Baofeng UV-5R - it is light, compact and has GREAT battery life (Lithium-ion). I used it for the last 3 days on our trip without charging and it still had power when I got home - your mileage may vary. You can buy another double capacity battery for about $10. Some say it is hard to program but I don't know any better so it took me about an hour to figure stuff out and get what I needed to use it. I have NO radio experience other than the CD player in my car that is broken. Other con is that it is a 4 watt radio when most other expensive HAM radios are 5 watt. For reference the handheld Motorola radios from Wallyworld, Cabelas etc. are 1/2 watt and cost more.

I was told by the salesperson at a local radio store that you cannot buy a HAM radio that will talk to some one on a FRS radios unless you illegally modify it. If fact just asking him if I could do this pissed him off and he put the radio and accessories away that I was willing to buy for about $300 at this point. His loss. The Boafeng radio can do this out of the box with no modification. Now is a good time to mention that Ham operators do not take kindly to non licensed, illegal or even improper use of the air waves. I understand this and plan on getting my Ham license and respecting the airwaves such that I do not cause others grief (carefully chosen words...). It seems most riders are not licensed

What is Simplex and Duplex?: Easy - Duplex is radio to repeater back to radio for long distance. This requires additional radio programming and protocols - most HAM users do this. They use a repeater (tower on a high spot to relay signals) to use a repeater you will need to program channels on your radio with the correct frequency to transmit and be "heard" by the "tower" and it will send back a communication on another frequency that you knew in advance and programmed to work in your radio. Useful in emergency situations for us - you can also patch into a phone line if you know what and how. I believe you need to pay a small yearly fee to belong to a group to do this with the phone - worth looking into on long trips.

Simplex - This is what almost all riders use - radio to radio. Distance is usually less than a mile but works for most rides. Programming is easy - just put the frequencies in your radio on a channel that you pick. This club seems to use 146.505 which is 2 meter HAM? I think we should use a GMRS 5 watt channel in simplex mode to allow owners of lower tech radios to communicate.

What are HAM, GMRS and FRS radios?:

FRS is a cheap radio or we used to call a walkie talkie you can by anywhere and use without a license - many are also GMRS capable for which you need a license but it is just a matter of sending the government some money - no testing. This allows more frequencies and use of more than 1/2 watts. Simplex only and you may not be able to find a decent helmet set up for one.

GMRS is the next step up and as much money as the Baofeng radio mentioned above without the HAM ability. Midland is popular brand and helmet set ups are available. Mostly used in simplex (rider to rider) but can be used with a GMRS repeater but I don't think there are many of those around? License is required for GMRS as mentioned above but no testing.

HAM is capable of worldwide communication and you need a license to transmit except in an emergency. Test is pretty easy - you can practice online for free and there are inexpensive HAM testing dates/locations around San Diego County on a continuous basis (one day - most pass). Would be good to have in an emergency such as a wild fire or earthquake. HAM radios will work in simplex or duplex and again most riders only use them in simplex.

More really good and helpful information about the Baofeng radio: http://www.miklor.com/uv5r/

Links for radio and accessories:

Radio: Baofeng UV5R in 136-174 and 400-480 transmit and receive, 65-108 FM receive only:

http://www.ebay.com/...ME:L:OC:US:3160

Helmet kit: Half Face Motorcycle Bike Helmet Headset Mic Microphone for Kenwood Radio 2pin

http://www.ebay.com/...ME:L:OC:US:3160

Floppy Antenna:J0125A Female universal Antenna for Kenwood HT TK 3107 378G HYT PUXING QUANSHENG

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1497.l2649

allow up to 3 weeks shipping from China.

Sounds good.

BE SURE to ask other riders how you sound. If your setup works, it'll be a first, and I imagine many other riders will order it. Typically, the less-expensive setups function poorly at any speed, and makes comms really ugly, really fast.

I've see other mentions of that radio, and it sounds lke a bargain, plus offers the other freqs SDAR has not been using.

Fingers crossed....

[Afry 1]

1352250828[/url]' post='136975']

Sounds good.

BE SURE to ask other riders how you sound. If your setup works, it'll be a first, and I imagine many other riders will order it. Typically, the less-expensive setups function poorly at any speed, and makes comms really ugly, really fast.

I've see other mentions of that radio, and it sounds lke a bargain, pluse offers the other freqs SDAR has not been using.

Fingers crossed....

The difference would be in the helmet kit which If there is a Rugged Radios helmet kit that works with the Kenwood plugs on the Baofeng you would have the best setup but I think the RR helmet kits are over $100 if that matters to you.

[paulmbowers 236]

Sounds good.

BE SURE to ask other riders how you sound. If your setup works, it'll be a first, and I imagine many other riders will order it. Typically, the less-expensive setups function poorly at any speed, and makes comms really ugly, really fast.

I've see other mentions of that radio, and it sounds lke a bargain, pluse offers the other freqs SDAR has not been using.

Fingers crossed....

The difference would be in the helmet kit which If there is a Rugged Radios helmet kit that works with the Kenwood plugs on the Baofeng you would have the best setup but I think the RR helmet kits are over $100 if that matters to you.

BajaDesigns = Rugged Radios.

[Afry 1]

Good catch...but I beat ya!

[X-country-Rider 0]

Good catch...but I beat ya!

Arnie first thanks for putting this together!! Rugged Radios does have Kenwood adapters and Midland adapters so that will work but its expensive!!

[hodnettjj 0]

The people listening to you will appreciate the extra expense...

[paulmbowers 236]

The people listening to you will appreciate the extra expense...

WORD.

[X-country-Rider 0]

So what do you do if you already bought an expensive bluetooth headset that you use to talk on the phone and listening to music? You may have thought you could use your bluetooth with friends but in reality everyone is using different bluetooth solutions making bike to bike bluetooth problematic. In reality most bluetooth headsets can only communicate between a couple bikes making it unusable for real adv usage. The good thing is that it already has built in speakers and mic etc. The bluetooth headsets also have built in noise filters which help you transmit clean comms without broadcasting wind noise. That means its a good idea to utilize your existing bluetooth headset into a more versatile solution that incorporates your existing headset but connects it to a radio. Use what you have and connect to a radio like the one Afry mentions to communicate out to the group. A few solutions exist for this.The Midland headsets have a wired solution to connect it with midland radios for example. Other bluetooth headsets without built in solutions can be connected with 3rd party bluetooth adapters such as the pryme bluetooth adapter and the Sena SR10.

Pryme Bluetooth Adapter

SR10 Connected to Radio

Push to talk Button (PTT) Button connected to SR10

[paulmbowers 236]

Yup.

Kinda sux.

RIght now, it seems to be two worlds- the off-road and the touring. The off-road community, beginning with the Honda Baja teams, started using the Baja Designs stuff, which integrated into the auto racing world, and much of the equipment came from the aeronautical industry, specifically Avcomm, the first supplier to BD. The Baja teams used 2m because they had Radioman perched atop a hill with a set of repeaters for great coverage.

Meanwhile, in the touring market, stuff like the Sena, Interphone, Chatterbox, Nady, Cardo J&M etc have been working systems that may be clearer sound-wise, but are way too fragile for the dirtbike environment.

It makes problems.

I use the BD system, but also wear earbuds for music and nav.

It will eventualy come together, and the Sena10 is a good example of that.

But not yet.

[X-country-Rider 0]

I use a Midland Bluetooth wired to a Midland GMRS radio that i use to talk to Arnie on his radio on GMRS freqs. I want to get a bluetooth adapter and connect it to the Baofeng UV-5R. That way I'm covered for everything.

[X-country-Rider 0]

I use a Midland Bluetooth wired to a Midland GMRS radio that i use to talk to Arnie on his radio on GMRS freqs. I want to get a bluetooth adapter and connect it to the Baofeng UV-5R. That way I'm covered for everything to include ham freqs. The key on choosing a radio is to ensure that it is dual banded and covers the ham ranges and the GMRS ranges.

[X-country-Rider 0]

I use a Midland Bluetooth wired to a Midland GMRS radio that i use to talk to Arnie on his radio on GMRS freqs. I want to get a bluetooth adapter and connect it to the Baofeng UV-5R. That way I'm covered for everything to include ham freqs. The key on choosing a radio is to ensure that it is dual banded (136-174 / 400-479.995 MHz) and covers the ham ranges and the GMRS ranges.

Channel Type Frequency

1 FRS / GMRS 462.5625

2 FRS / GMRS 462.5875

3 FRS / GMRS 462.6125

4 FRS / GMRS 462.6375

5 FRS / GMRS 462.6625

6 FRS / GMRS 462.6875

7 FRS / GMRS 462.7125

8 FRS 467.5625

9 FRS 467.5875

10 FRS 467.6125

11 FRS 467.6375

12 FRS 467.6625

13 FRS 467.6875

14 FRS 467.7125

15 GMRS 462.5500

16 GMRS 462.5750

17 GMRS 462.6000

18 GMRS 462.6250

19 GMRS 462.6500

20 GMRS 462.6750

21 GMRS 462.7000

22 GMRS 462.7250

[hodnettjj 0]

dualbanded and covers the ham ranges and the GMRS ranges.

Dual band usually refers to ham freqs, 2m, 70cm... There is no legal radio that transmits and receives ham & gmrs freqs...

[X-country-Rider 0]

dualbanded and covers the ham ranges and the GMRS ranges.

Dual band usually refers to ham freqs, 2m, 70cm... There is no legal radio that transmits and receives ham & gmrs freqs...

You didn't read Arnies post the BaoFeng UV-5R does that just fine. We chatted on GMRS for a week between my Midland FRS/GMRS radio and Arnies BaoFeng UV-5R ham radio. We used channel 15 on GMRS. Thats Freq 462.5500. I put my midland GMRS radio on channel 15 and he put his Baofeng on freq 462.5500. Worked great!!

[hodnettjj 0]

You didn't read my post...

It's not legal.... Radios are licensed by the FCC to operate in certain bands...

I didn't say it couldn't be done...

[X-country-Rider 0]

You didn't read my post...

It's not legal.... Radios are licensed by the FCC to operate in certain bands...

I didn't say it couldn't be done...

Its on legal sale in the US and does not need to be modified. Its out of the box capable.

Link to details.

Frequency Range: 136-174 / 400-479.995 MHz

The UV5R is FCC certified to use, and capable of transmitting on 136-174mhz. and 450-479mhz

The UV-5R IS Part 90 certified (FCCID: ZP5BF-5R)

[hodnettjj 0]

I don't think the measure of it being legal is being for sale on Ebay. There are plenty of modified radios on there... It's not illegal for them to sell them... It's illegal for you to transmit on a band with a radio that is but type accepted by the fcc for that band. There are NO ham/gmrs type accepted by the FCC.

I'm not in a pissing contest, do what you want... I don't think anyone well be tracking you down anyway.

Good luck with your plan. I am just trying to inform you, take out for what it's worth... Or tell me to pack sand...

Just found this: This radio has international settings, meaning that the entire frequency range from 130-174mhz and from 400-480mhz is open to both TX and RX. This means you do need to be careful as a Ham license only allows you to TX on 2m from 144-148mhz and on 440 from 420-450mhz. The radio is not FCC certified to transmit on any of the Marine VHF, MURS, FRS/GMRS, or business radio or emergency services radio frequencies that lie in these frequency ranges and operating in those frequency ranges with this HT will expose you to FCC action.

[X-country-Rider 0]

I don't think the measure of it being legal is being for sale on Ebay. There are plenty of modified radios on there... It's not illegal for them to sell them... It's illegal for you to transmit on a band with a radio that is but type accepted by the fcc for that band. There are NO ham/gmrs type accepted by the FCC.

I'm not in a pissing contest, do what you want... I don't think anyone well be tracking you down anyway.

Good luck with your plan. I am just trying to inform you, take out for what it's worth... Or tell me to pack sand...

The UV-5R IS Part 90 certified (FCCID: ZP5BF-5R)

[hodnettjj 0]

I guess one of the confusing parts is... It didn't originally hit the market with the FCC certification...

It did and now does have the FCC cert:

UPDATE: At the time of writing this post, the UV-5R was not Part 90 certified. Recently, the radio has received Part 90 approval and is legal for use for Land Mobile radio services such as police, fire and rescue and commercial radio services. Certification information is available at the FCC website and the FCC ID for the radio is ZP5BF-5R.

Good luck building your comms...

[X-country-Rider 0]

I guess one of the confusing parts is... It didn't originally hit the market with the FCC certification...

It did and now does have the FCC cert:

UPDATE: At the time of writing this post, the UV-5R was not Part 90 certified. Recently, the radio has received Part 90 approval and is legal for use for Land Mobile radio services such as police, fire and rescue and commercial radio services. Certification information is available at the FCC website and the FCC ID for the radio is ZP5BF-5R.

Good luck building your comms...

It received Cert on 05/21/12.

[Steve_k 0]

Great write up

[ADV Bum 205]

I guess one of the confusing parts is... It didn't originally hit the market with the FCC certification...

It did and now does have the FCC cert:

UPDATE: At the time of writing this post, the UV-5R was not Part 90 certified. Recently, the radio has received Part 90 approval and is legal for use for Land Mobile radio services such as police, fire and rescue and commercial radio services. Certification information is available at the FCC website and the FCC ID for the radio is ZP5BF-5R.

Good luck building your comms...

It received Cert on 05/21/12.

I purchased a radio that had been modified legally with a broader range for SR. Just because the channels are there, it is still illegal for me to use without the right license, correct?

[paulmbowers 236]

I purchased a radio that had been modified legally with a broader range for SR. Just because the channels are there, it is still illegal for me to use without the right license, correct?

It is my understanding it is illegal to transmit on those frequencies, but not illegal to posses a device capable of receiving them.

Just like a Yaseu with a MARS/CAP mod, the radio will transmit on freqs that are not available to licensed ham radio operators- fire/police bands etc. If one is not an idiot, that's great.

To expand the conversation a little, I'd like the radios to easily interface with my GPS. Some will- the Yaesus can be connected in some crazy complicated way, to some GPS. That would allow groups riding together to locate members from their signal. Yes, the Garmin Rino can do this, but the radio is not robust.